ericdrive
**Member** 
Posts: 23 
What I collect: Argentina, France and Portugal (soon US and UK)
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Post by ericdrive on Aug 10, 2022 0:37:31 GMT
I've been filling thestampforum.boards.net/post/150399/thread with my France collection. Everything was going great, until I was confronted by a dilemma: to selvage or not to selvage? (that is the -beginner's- question). I collect stamps, because I like them for their beauty. I think they're works of art. Following that logic, I got myself a beautiful album to store them. And, for the most part, its pages are making justice to that beauty. Here's an example:  I think this page is pleasing to the eyes. Now, what happens when we add selvages to the equation? Let's take a look:  Not only does it not (at least to me) look good esthetically, but neither are the stamps fully covered (protected) by the album's mount. What should I do?Things I know about selvagesSelvages protect the perforation of the stamp. It gives some information about the position of the stamp on the sheet. Other collectors might prefer them. Some contain information, like plate numbers. Although this is not the case. Removing them poses a risk of damaging the stamp. A collector like to preserve the objects as close to their original state as possible. But, why do I collect?Because I find stamps to be aesthetically pleasing. It's an art collection. The activity of collecting them and finding what I'm missing, is fun and relaxing. I'd like to have a beautiful collection of all stamps of a country in a beautiful album. I don't care much about the value of a stamp. I could prefer a beautiful 2022 stamp worth nothing, to the first stamp of a country worth thousands. So far, I haven't removed any selvages. In fact, I wouldn't know how to do it safely. But I'm tempted to do it. I also thought of maybe buying those stamps without the selvages, or trading them for the ones with the selvage, so that I don't ruin what others may value. Bottom line: I don't know what to do. HELP!
Thank you in advance  Eric |
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rainbowhugz
Member 
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 177 
What I collect: Hong Kong and Canada
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Post by rainbowhugz on Aug 10, 2022 0:51:30 GMT
I have the same dilemma sometimes! Looking forward to reading what others have to say!
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Post by octavius on Aug 10, 2022 0:56:51 GMT
Yeah, I know what you mean but if there is nothing on the selvage I would pull it off (after bending it back and forth).
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,616
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Aug 10, 2022 1:02:03 GMT
I am with the remove side due to the type of album you are using. I like your album choice but as you have discovered it does have it’s limitations.
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on Aug 10, 2022 6:30:16 GMT
I always pull it off.
Your first page looks great.
Your second looks messy. (Sorry, but you asked.)
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator 
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 10, 2022 7:08:11 GMT
Nice thread, Eric ( ericdrive), and well presented with text and images.... thanks for that! The question of whether to keep or remove selvedge is one debated by collectors fairly regularly, and there are normally advocates on both sides of the issue. Personally, I am totally with you on the idea that selvedge, for the most part, does not make for a neat display of one's stamps. On the other hand, it can add value, most certainly in the older classic issues, but for others, too. Over the years, I have tended to remove it, especially if I have a set, and one or two of the stamps have selvedge on them, and the rest don't. Like you, I value the aesthetics, and I like my stamps in a set to look like a set. As zipper says, the selvedge makes them look a bit messy, even when in fact, they are nice stamps. But you are quite right that it is possible to damage stamps when removing selvedge. Looking at the ones you have, I think this would be rather low risk, but not risk free. To avoid the problem these days, I generally don't buy stamps with selvedge attached, if I can help it. Thanks again for your post.  |
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,418
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Aug 10, 2022 7:22:16 GMT
Another reason why I prefer to use Hagnar and Vario sheets- it’s tough having to fit your stamps to preprinted album pages.
Ugh - a dilemma. There are no markings on the selvage and they aren’t extremely rare issues, so I concur - carefully remove them. FYI - I’ve found many stamps in mounts with the selvage attached but folded over. That’s a bit of a half arse solution, but it is an option. You can fold them then go back later and completely remove them. But - the problem is the gum on gum - not good. And that can look bulky.
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Post by paul1 on Aug 10, 2022 7:42:45 GMT
those French pictorials, and French Colonies, are amongst some of the most attractive stamps - thanks for posting. Collectors collect stamps for a variety of reasons - beauty, rarity, quality of condition, and I'm inclined to favour keeping the selvedge which does protect at least one line of perfs. I could be wrong, but am assuming Eric that you use hinges to attach your stamps to the page ??
A selvedge provides somewhere for you to attach the hinge, which is not part of the stamp, thereby protecting the back of the stamp, and this seems a good enough reason for keeping the selvedge intact and joined to the stamp.
By the way, if you ""don't care much about the value of a stamp. I could prefer a beautiful 2022 stamp worth nothing, to the first stamp of a country worth thousands."" - I will send you some modern stamps and you send me your triangles and penny blacks.;-);-) Seriously, do you think you might be worrying a bit too much? As Terri has mentioned, the selvedge can be folded under the stamp if seeing a strip of blank paper is not to your liking. It appears also to be a fact that stamps with selvedge have an increased value when selling on auction sites - though appreciate your comment that your stamps aren't purchased with value in mind. Conclusion: I would suggest keeping these little blank strips.
Correction to my words ................ I think your comment about 'mounts' suggest you're using protective clear mounts - so folding the selvedge under is workable.
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 10, 2022 7:52:40 GMT
Paul ( paul1), take a good look at the images. These pages have clear mounts on them. No hinges being used. |
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ericdrive
**Member**
Posts: 23
What I collect: Argentina, France and Portugal (soon US and UK)
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Post by ericdrive on Aug 10, 2022 8:53:45 GMT
To avoid the problem these days, I generally don't buy stamps with selvedge attached, if I can help it. Great idea! You remove the risk of damaging the stamp altogether. I agree paul1 . Thanks for noticing. Deal! As soon as I get my hands on a Penny Black. worth $200, I'll trade it for 20,000 of your most beautiful 1 cent stamps. Thank you for the offer!  Thank you, everyone, for your input. Very helpful indeed. I just wanted to make sure that, whatever my decision, I was not "ruining" something that was valuable to the philatelic community. I understand it's my collection and "my rules," so to speak. But I also want to preserve things that could be valuable to the community as a whole and, why not, to the next generations. I don't want the following to happen, for committing a philatelic sin, when I'm just starting:  |
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Post by paul1 on Aug 10, 2022 9:02:00 GMT
Beryllium Guy - Chris - yes, thanks, and I did subsequently cotton on to the fact Eric was using clear mounts, though not easy to see first off - my eyesight not what it was, and I would have thought it out of place had hinges been used. Although I do have some of these pre-planned albums, the down side is that they usually allow for a single example only of any given issue, and I'm obsessed with wanting hordes of some - thinking I shall find a rare error.
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daveg28
Member
Posts: 1,018
What I collect: U.S., Canada, Great Britain & Commonwealth, France (esp. 1950-80), DDR, USSR
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Post by daveg28 on Aug 10, 2022 13:03:17 GMT
ericdrive...that first page is a beauty. The second one, not so much, by those nasty selvage tabs. Send those stamps to me and I'll relieve you of them and allow you to sleep better! lol French engraved stamps of that era are works of art, aren't they?
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de61
Member
Posts: 262
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Post by de61 on Aug 11, 2022 15:03:47 GMT
Great idea for a topic ericdrive . It has been argued back and forth among collectors for many years with no consensus. Whether it is "selvage" or "selvedge" is even up for debate (both are correct). I keep the selvage if it adds to the interest, appearance, value, or knowledge about the stamp. Otherwise, I remove it. I keep the selvage intact for the following situations: 1. If there is a perforation variety for the stamp, the selvage ensures the stamp has not been re-perforated. 2. If there is an all-over printed background on the stamp and the background continues partially into the selvage. This shows the background is printed rather than the stamp being on colored paper. 3. If there is decorative printing in the selvage that is not normally seen. 4. If there is a control number, plate number, siderographer's markings, or printer's name in the selvage. 5. If there are other anomalies in the selvage such as layout lines or plate cracks. Sorry philatelia & paul1 , but I do not recommend folding the selvage to the back of the stamp. I have seen too many instances in which the selvage has adhered to the back of the stamp. If there is also any potential for the stamp to become toned, it may result in uneven gum toning on the back of the stamp. |
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Post by paul1 on Aug 11, 2022 15:55:33 GMT
hello de61, and thanks your input. Just to clarify - I don't think philatelia - Terri - was recommending keeping and folding back the selvedge, but rather that that was one solution for hiding the selvedge assuming you didn't want to tear or remove the wing with the potential damage this might cause. I think that philatelia was in fact in favour of removing the wing with the option to fold under if you didn't want to risk damage.
There is however, something, obviously, that many folk find appealing about selvedge, since prices for stamps with wings do appear to have a price premium when being sold like that.
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,418
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Aug 11, 2022 19:08:54 GMT
de61 I AGREE about folding the selvage. If you read my entire sentence you will see that I said - “FYI - I’ve found many stamps in mounts with the selvage attached but folded over. That’s a bit of a half arse solution, but it is an option. You can fold them then go back later and completely remove them. But - the problem is the gum on gum - not good. And that can look bulky.” So I’m not sure what part of my sentence you disagree with? It IS an option, but, as we both agree, a rather crappy solution and definitely best if only used temporarily.  No worries, just wanted to clear that up.
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brightonpete
Departed
Rest in Peace
On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Aug 11, 2022 20:49:33 GMT
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,651
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 11, 2022 21:12:37 GMT
unless there is some definitive reason (as previously mentioned) the only advantage to keeping selvedge would be to show if it is from the L/R/T/B of the sheet.... (and I'm not sure why that is important)
As I make my own pages, stamps with welvedge retained (In some of the France definitives there are advertisements) then the layout would be to accommodate this and a larger mount used accordingly.
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ericdrive
**Member**
Posts: 23
What I collect: Argentina, France and Portugal (soon US and UK)
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Post by ericdrive on Aug 12, 2022 9:05:52 GMT
Thank you all for the input. After all this extremely valuable information you guys shared, I was able to come to a decision. For this collection, using this hingeless album, I will remove any selvage that doesn't meet any of the requirements that de61 pointed out: So, without further ado, here's the end result:  Before and After:(Sorry for the different lighting)  It ultimately is a matter of taste. But I like how the album looks without the selvages. I hope the purist collectors don't declare me excomunicado  As mentioned, I am going to follow de61 's Rules, and won't get rid of selvages that could provide more information than just which edge of the sheet the stamp came from. For example, I'm keeping these selvages:   I hope you all approve. Big  to everyone! Eric PS: I almost forgot. Removing the selvages was extremely easy. I just folded them back and forward multiple times, until they practically came off on their own. Minimum force was needed to remove them, and came out perfectly. |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,270
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 12, 2022 9:46:04 GMT
Well as you have learned from the various replies and the other Selvedge thread, there are no hard and fast rules . To keep or not to keep? , that is the question.
If the selvedge is blank there is no harm philatelically in removing and there may be benefits aesthetically .
If there is information , eg printer details , plate number etc they should be retained.
For page display , where the extra bit detracts from the pleasing arrangement, I strongly suggest you search out a second example of the stamp and create a separate page for stamps with selvedge or store separately in a stock book of curios , eg nice postmarks etc still on piece .
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No worries, just wanted to clear that up. 
to everyone!