tobben63
Member 
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,874 
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Aug 27, 2022 14:30:46 GMT
This is something we all struggle with, at least those of us who cares 
I struggle but I might found a way to help myself.
I have the Michel Farbenführer to help me, but I find it hard to eyeball and move the stamp around and then decide if I'm at the right spot.
But as I have made myself a macro photo rig, have light with exact light temperature and a camera I can lock the temperature on ( Kelvin) I can take photos in controlled environment. So I did.
Here the stamp is placed below the color in the guide as it is suposed to be.
The stamp and color guide side by side. All images is taken with same light.
So what do you think. Is this a modern proof method?
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djcmh
Member
Posts: 794
What I collect: Worldwide
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Post by djcmh on Aug 27, 2022 14:38:29 GMT
I guess if you have the camera set up in a controlled environment, you could take picture of stamp under the color sample, then open your photo in a program like Photobucket and see if the RGB/CMYK values match or are very close, which would indicate that stamp is said color.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,905
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 27, 2022 15:30:02 GMT
a better mousetrap!!!
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tobben63
Member
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,874
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Aug 27, 2022 15:59:21 GMT
I guess if you have the camera set up in a controlled environment, you could take picture of stamp under the color sample, then open your photo in a program like Photobucket and see if the RGB/CMYK values match or are very close, which would indicate that stamp is said color. Yes, and no..... Point is that I have photographed the Michel guide color together with the stamp, and I feel it's easier to see the match on the photo. The guide tell us that this color is Ultramarine, and my eyes tells me that the stamp has very close match. Therefore this is a stamp printed with ultramarine color. The guide is manufactured by Michel, and the color names match the color names used by Michel in the catalog. Other catalogs may call this color something else, and the same with image programs/software. |
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Post by gstamps on Aug 28, 2022 10:27:03 GMT
tobben63, Michel Color Guide is very good for identifying the colors of German stamps. The explanations in the preface of the catalog are also translated into English and are very logically explained. I also post the name of the color tones in German.    I have a sheet with the Berlin-Brandenburg Mi #4 stamp (hope it is hellsiena = light siena / 200 Euro stamp) whose color is different from a block of 4 Mi#4. (lebhaftsiena = striking siena / 0.4 Euro stamp) The 2 stamps have the same type of paper and gum (factors that can influence the color) and the difference is obvious.    In the color catalog, only 5 variations of the basic color are exemplified (from the series of 10 previously exemplified)  Unfortunately, I am not sure that the sheet of stamps has the color "hellsiena" (200 x 100 = 20,000 Euro) because between "lebhaftsiena" and "hellsiena" there is also "mittelsiena = medium siena" which is not exemplified in the catalog. I have not yet found a German collector willing to send him a pair of stamps from the sheet and who can help me with the expertise at the BPP or who owns a certified "hellsiena" stamp.
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kgvistamps
Member
Posts: 201
What I collect: British Colonies - King George VI from all countries and King Edward VII & King George V from the West Indies.
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Post by kgvistamps on Aug 28, 2022 12:37:09 GMT
Your idea of selecting a section, identifying the color and then painting the border the same color is an interesting one. If the catalogs used the same RGB scale it would make identification a lot easier.
The method I have used is to find a number of the stamps and place them on both white and black paper to determine which are different from each other. Then I use a source like a catalog or better an expert book that lists the possible color options for the stamps to try to determine what I actually have. It is very hard to look at one stamp and accurately identify the color, but when you have a bunch of them, the variances really stand out.
As I have done this, I also have noticed other variations in the paper, the gum, perforation, and UV characteristics that can help isolate the differences. I collect British Colony stamps from about 1900 to 1950, so there are a lot of differences in these other characteristics that can help identify the stamps. Shown below is an ID chart I put together for one of the most difficult stamps to identify - the Grenada 10/ King George VI issue. It was printed from 1937 to 1947 and during that time there were nine different identifiable variations found in the stamps. The chart shows how to sort them based on all the variances which include: perforation, color, paper, gum, and width of the stamp.
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Post by gstamps on Aug 28, 2022 17:04:50 GMT
djcmh, I don't think I can identify the color with the RGV values obtained. I marked the sampling areas. Are the values close enough? I think it's impossible to fit perfectly.  The color effects influenced by the printing method, the areas on the stamp where the sample is taken (with more or less ink or white areas) must also be taken into account. A database with the RGB values obtained from MNH stamps with certified color and with the identification of the sampling area on the stamp would be helpful. Exist something like this?
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tobben63
Member
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,874
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Aug 28, 2022 19:15:15 GMT
Just for the record, The images gstamps and I present is taken with/from the Michel color guide with our stamps under a hole in center of the color.   |
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,698
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Aug 29, 2022 10:00:08 GMT
In the case of colors, you often need the guide for the catalog one uses.
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Aug 29, 2022 19:09:28 GMT
Interesting thread tobben63 ! Your camera method sounds like it should be bullet-proof! A bit time-consuming for each single stamp maybe, but should give clear answers. For those that have the equipment and patience  What strikes me is that the same 'colour-name' might be quite different from catalog to catalog - and even worse, within the same catalog. Even Michel appears to me as not being 100% consistent in the colour they assign for the varieties. The Michel colour chart seems really useful, provided it was actually used when they defined the names in their listings in the first place....(?) and the inconsistency I've seen tells me that might not necesarrily always be the case (?). What's your experience so far? I might need to get one myself! Tying in with what kgvistamps said, I absolutely support that the relative comparison between a high numbers of stamps gives confidence, whilst trying to establish shades on a single stamp in itself is not easy. At least not until such time the catalog issuers are getting 100% consistent - or use RGB codes or similar, which I guess we don't have time to wait around for  Another method is to use pictures of stamps/varieties that has already been identified by experts. Though colours on pictures might show slightly differently on a screen, it's often more about the different shade/tone/temperature/saturation relatively between the varieties/printings. Here's a sample of a 'DIY colour guide' I created, based on images from Swedishstamps.com  |
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