Andy Pastuszak
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What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 19, 2022 16:33:37 GMT
I sent them an email and never got a reply back.
The paper is white, but it's not bright white.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 29, 2022 22:00:28 GMT
I called the phone number on Washington Press' website and let the woman I spoke with know that their digital certificate expired on the website.
And she told me the company doesn't even use the website any more. If you want anything you should just call the toll free number and place an order over the phone. I tried to explain to her that most people will not be able to get the phone number if they can't get to the website to see the number. And they print the website on the manila envelopes they sell their supplements in.
While I had her on the phone, I asked her what fonts the supplements use. She didnt know, and she didn't even know who designs the supplements or where to get that info.
The whole thing has me a little concerned that White Ace supplements aren't going to be around forever.
Sigh...
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,164
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Nov 29, 2022 22:15:07 GMT
I called the phone number on Washington Press' website and let the woman I spoke with know that their digital certificate expired on the website. And she told me the company doesn't even use the website any more. If you want anything you should just call the toll free number and place an order over the phone. I tried to explain to her that most people will not be able to get the phone number if they can't get to the website to see the number. And they print the website on the manila envelopes they sell their supplements in. While I had her on the phone, I asked her what fonts the supplements use. She didnt know, and she didn't even know who designs the supplements or where to get that info. The whole thing has me a little concerned that White Ace supplements aren't going to be around forever. Sigh... Very sorry for you !! I think I would raise HELL if this was in Canada - do not know White Ace but in general, consideration should be given, b e t t e r ! René |
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 30, 2022 2:46:59 GMT
I called the phone number on Washington Press' website and let the woman I spoke with know that their digital certificate expired on the website. And she told me the company doesn't even use the website any more. If you want anything you should just call the toll free number and place an order over the phone. I tried to explain to her that most people will not be able to get the phone number if they can't get to the website to see the number. And they print the website on the manila envelopes they sell their supplements in. While I had her on the phone, I asked her what fonts the supplements use. She didnt know, and she didn't even know who designs the supplements or where to get that info. The whole thing has me a little concerned that White Ace supplements aren't going to be around forever. Sigh... Very sorry for you !! I think I would raise HELL if this was in Canada - do not know White Ace but in general, consideration should be given, b e t t e r ! René It's kind of sad. I feel like they just don't get 21st Century e-commerce. Abandoning your website in 2022 because the certificate expired is just stupid. if you don't want to take online orders, that's fine. Make the website a product information page, and remove online shopping from it. But you need someplace online for people to see your products. Even if it's just a Facebook page.
I feel this is very shortsighted on their part.
To the woman's credit, she did take my name and number and promised to call me back tomorrow about the fonts. She said she doesn't think the designer would be willing to divulge that information. Which is kind of funny, because there are any number of websites where you can upload an image and it will do a "best guess" as to what the font is. There's even a few web forums that have a "What font is this?" section. You upload a photo and professional typographers will eventually figure out the font you use.
The font you use is not a "trade secret." I really doubt White Ace paid somoene to design them a custom font.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,702
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Nov 30, 2022 12:10:46 GMT
The fonts should be easy to identify by using a font ID tool. For the paper, I would take it to a good paper supply place and they can help match it or mail a sample to one that operates online. I measured the thickness and it is around 8mils so heavier than 67 cover. There is no guarantee they have used the same paper since the beginning. Scott changed their paper (tint, weight) a while back for some albums.
What they need is someone to market the products for them but sounds like they must have not paid much for the assets since not that interested in marketing but that is just speculation.
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 30, 2022 14:27:28 GMT
Since White Ace was closing shop, I think they definitely got it at fire sale prices. The seller was probably willing to take any offer rather than close shop and get nothing.
I've used two different font ID tools. They both find a font that's close to the one White Ace uses, but not the exact font.
When White Ace was going to close, I sent them an email asking them to please open source their templates, so people could continue to make pages for White Ace albums.
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jdtrue66
Member
Inactive
Posts: 287
What I collect: US&US FDC, Keys & Locks, NUDES, Rubber Ducks, USS NJ covers
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Post by jdtrue66 on Dec 1, 2022 19:55:56 GMT
I have been thinking a lot about this. They may not be the company they once were and they may not be doing great things to recover or build back their business but they are not out of business. With all of that why would a company share that information? If there was a good story like "I want to make 1 or 2 specialty pages and have them match" but then that is also what blank pages are for.
Just asking for the font or information about the paper just says I am going to make my own pages and you're not going to get a sale. Add to that the idea a person might give away, sell or print look alike pages sounds to a company more lost sales.
Yes you can figure out the font yes you can figure out the paper. But I don't see any problem if they don't do that work for you with nothing to gain for the company.
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angore
Member
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 2, 2022 10:41:55 GMT
jdtrue66 Andy asked Mystic Stamp and they provided the information on fonts.
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jdtrue66
Member
Inactive
Posts: 287
What I collect: US&US FDC, Keys & Locks, NUDES, Rubber Ducks, USS NJ covers
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Post by jdtrue66 on Dec 2, 2022 13:34:25 GMT
jdtrue66 Andy asked Mystic Stamp and they provided the information fonts. I'm glad he got the information! My thought was on why would they or even more why should they. I could see even White Ace sharing that info with Mystic but not a end user. |
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 2, 2022 15:44:12 GMT
I have been thinking a lot about this. They may not be the company they once were and they may not be doing great things to recover or build back their business but they are not out of business. With all of that why would a company share that information? If there was a good story like "I want to make 1 or 2 specialty pages and have them match" but then that is also what blank pages are for. Just asking for the font or information about the paper just says I am going to make my own pages and you're not going to get a sale. Add to that the idea a person might give away, sell or print look alike pages sounds to a company more lost sales. Yes you can figure out the font yes you can figure out the paper. But I don't see any problem if they don't do that work for you with nothing to gain for the company. I told them exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to make some custom pages to fill in some gaps in how they lay out their stamps. |
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 2, 2022 15:44:44 GMT
jdtrue66 Andy asked Mystic Stamp and they provided the information fonts. Mystic also told me the paper they use. Not the exact brand, but the weight and color. |
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 2, 2022 15:50:38 GMT
jdtrue66 Andy asked Mystic Stamp and they provided the information fonts. I'm glad he got the information! My thought was on why would they or even more why should they. I could see even White Ace sharing that info with Mystic but not a end user. I don't think that Alco wants to withhold the information. I think they don't know. I bet they pay graphic arts contractors to lay out their pages for them. They approve the pages, and off they go to the printer. My guess is that they've never been told what the fonts are, and they don't care. They bought an existing product and, as long as the new stuff looks the same as the old stuff, they have a product to sell. So they're happy with that.
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jdtrue66
Member
Inactive
Posts: 287
What I collect: US&US FDC, Keys & Locks, NUDES, Rubber Ducks, USS NJ covers
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Post by jdtrue66 on Dec 2, 2022 16:16:25 GMT
Andy Pastuszak I am very glad you got the information you wanted and for the reason you stated is like the example I gave and I could see them sharing it. Your right they may not know because of using a contractor. I am a publisher (not stamp books) but to be honest off the top of my head I could not tell you the fonts we use though I could find out easy by just opening any formatted file. Along with the paper I don't know my printers know and I am sure the person who sends the orders to them may know but I don't.
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,164
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Dec 2, 2022 20:43:17 GMT
Andy Pastuszak I am very glad you got the information you wanted and for the reason you stated is like the example I gave and I could see them sharing it. Your right they may not know because of using a contractor. I am a publisher (not stamp books) but to be honest off the top of my head I could not tell you the fonts we use though I could find out easy by just opening any formatted file. Along with the paper I don't know my printers know and I am sure the person who sends the orders to them may know but I don't. It used to be a family discussion, when my late dad was Owner-Editor-Printer at large of a Newspaper - since the past 20 years I do not have access to printing shops (if they still exist !!!) I am of no help - which explains I do not follow this thread - Everything should be resolved by now..... a never ending story  ....- after 13 posts...my god ! |
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angore
Member
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 2, 2022 20:56:22 GMT
I think what makes White Ace paper special is the thickness and rounded corners. Other than that, it is regular paper. My packet of White Ace paper still looks nice.
Now, I have some Minkus album pages that have left a rough life - toned, wrinkled.
I really believe behind this discussion is that Andy and I think that it would be great if some traditional publisher of album pages actually entered the modern world by offering pages for sale via PDF and reams of paper rather surely go out of business by clinging to the traditional model. I doubt much will canniblize sales and they could offer customer services with digital delivery. Steiner has a partner. I believe any potential buyer for a Scott National collects beyond the spaces provided. Cater to them,.
One key cost factor for something like supplements is all the work involved in printing say 10 pages, adding a stiffener (sometimes), and putting in an envelope. It is labor intensive and the price reflects markup on the cost and profit,
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 2, 2022 21:23:18 GMT
I think what makes White Ace paper special is the thickness and rounded corners. Other than that, it is regular paper. My packet of White Ace paper still looks nice. Now, I have some Minkus album pages that have left a rough life - toned, wrinkled. I really believe behind this discussion is that Andy and I think that it would be great if some traditional publisher of album pages actually entered the modern world by offering pages for sale via PDF and reams of paper rather than the rather go out of business clinging to the traditional model rather something different. I doubt much will cannabalize sales and they could offer customer services with digital delivery. I'm lucky enough to have a stamp store 30 min from my house that has White Ace supplements and binders in stock. But if you don't then, you're looking at a price tag with shipping that's going keep you from getting these albums.
I created an account on Allen's website (For which a password is 'optional.' What the heck Allens?!) To get the 2020 simplified commemorative supplement will cost me $11.95 + $7.95 shipping. Obviously if I buy more, then the shipping price becomes more reasonable per item bought.
But I would just prefer to buy a PDF from them and print it myself.
I would think most people WOULD NOT want to do this. They'd rather buy the pre-printed page, because it will probably look better and have better color matching to your existing pages.
I get that making a PDF available would probably only appeal to a small set of people, but it's a pretty easy thing to add to the website. You could make it as easy as another line item on the website, you place the order, and then you email me the PDF.
I'm sure there may be piracy concerns. But how many people in the stamp collecting community are pirating stamp album pages? I don't see Steiner pages all over the Internet for easy download.
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
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What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 2, 2022 21:32:51 GMT
I got an email back from Allens (the current owners of White Ace) about the washpress.com website. They don't own it or have access to it. That's still controlled by the owners of Washington Press. You would think they'd require transfer of that website over to them as part of the sale of White Ace. Even if they didn't, you'd think they'd at least ask the owners to redirect the site over to their own web page. Allen's website (https://www.allensinc.com) doesn't even mention stamp collecting on it. The only way to find out about White Ace is to enter their storefront. Then if you click on any of their supplements, this is image style you get:  I feel like Allen's goal is to cater to existing White Ace users. Growing the user base of these albums doesn't seem to be something they're interested in. |
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
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What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 4, 2022 5:23:49 GMT
So, I almost have it figured out.
The title font for stamp name is either Rockwell Light or Rockwell Nova Light.
The year under the stamp name is either Rockwell Bold or Rockwell Nova Bold.
The italicized font under the stamp is definitely Garamond Italic
I'm still trying to figure out the font used in the stamp description. I have a couple of candidates, but none of them are thin enough. I think it might be Futura. I need to do some test prints and see what comes out.
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angore
Member
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 4, 2022 11:13:37 GMT
Futura was quite popular in years back.
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Andy Pastuszak
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What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 4, 2022 18:27:55 GMT
Doing more research, it looks like the Title font is not Rockwell. It's Karnak. What's even more interesting is that the Karnak was not available as a digital font you can install on a computer until 2009.
So, I think these pages might still be laid out by hand.
White Ace sells blank pages, so, I think I can recreate the layout and just print it out on their paper.
A typeface designer named Robert Hunter Middleton created both the Karnak and the Garamond fonts. He also made a font called Tempo, which is "heavily inspired" by Futura. So, I'm wondering if these pages use Tempo instead of Futura.
The only thing I really can't do is the stamp border. I can create a 3 line border with black on the outsides and grey on the inside. But getting those xs in the border would be a huge PITA.
The nice thing is, if I am only doing definitive pages, then that's a lot less work than doing all the commemorative stamps.
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brightonpete
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Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Dec 4, 2022 19:23:45 GMT
I looked for Karnak, each font style is $60. A freebie version had errors on every style. Nix on buy, nix on freebie!
I'll just use what I have. Close but not cigar, but I'm not as picky as you, Andy Pastuszak !
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
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What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 4, 2022 20:33:27 GMT
The more I look at the description font, the more I think it is Tempo. Tempo is not available digitally, except in heavy and extra heavy weights. Which really makes me believe these pages are still created using old typesetting machines and an x-acto knife.
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
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What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 4, 2022 20:35:22 GMT
Ok, here is what I came up with.
This is what is in the White Ace 2020 Regular Issue supplement:
And this is my homage recreation with description added:
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
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What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 5, 2022 2:26:04 GMT
I looked for Karnak, each font style is $60. A freebie version had errors on every style. Nix on buy, nix on freebie!
I'll just use what I have. Close but not cigar, but I'm not as picky as you, Andy Pastuszak ! Yeah, that's an expensive font. Prior to this digital version which came out in 2009, the font wasn't available at all. So, I'm sure there's an economy of scale thing going on. Not a lot of demand. If you use Rockwell, which I think comes with Windows, you get a font that's pretty close and would only be distinguishable if Rockwell and Karnak were on the same page. |
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
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What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 5, 2022 2:27:17 GMT
Slightly reworked. I think this is close enough to make me happy.  |
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....- after 13 posts...my god !
