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Post by tallanent on Dec 19, 2018 13:09:01 GMT
OK ... I have the check letter AA - AD in place so far...
The following shows the details for plate 2 - stamp AD
Re-entry at bottom ...
Work continues ... Allan
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 24, 2019 0:25:35 GMT
I picked this in a group of Penny "reds" this being described as a color flaw. Small crown watermark just a faded specimen? grey-black Plate 8? or a forgery??? ( I shudder to think!!) back is "bluish" ...sorta... paper, except where the printed field was white on front... bleached red? a curio, a find?!? no real monetary pain if it's been altered or a forgery (and a forgery would be fun! as i do have a penny black thanks to lucky draw here !!) thank you Londonbus1
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on May 24, 2019 11:48:34 GMT
Hi Stan I thought I had responded to this a couple of hours ago but my reply seems to have been lost!
The Stamp you show is just a curio. I would not describe it as a " colour flaw". It is most likely a penny red ( the blue paper is the give away as that "blueing" due to potassium prussate in the ink only occurs in printings from 1841 onwards never on the penny black)
the 1850s to about 1900 had coal gas lighting in Victorian homes and Hydrogen Sulphide is probably responsible for the blackening of the iron pigment in the ink. The stamp colour is called a "changeling" due to atmospheric conditions.
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stainlessb
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qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 24, 2019 14:49:38 GMT
Interesting- were any of the stamps actually printed on blue or was it simply a reaction to the potassium ferrocyanide? (sounds nasty but it doesn't break down to form cyanide!)
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on May 24, 2019 15:42:57 GMT
As far as I Know Stan it happened because the sheets were dampened prior to printing and it was a reaction from the ink to the damp paper . Areas which got less ink sometimes show no bluing and the head area is white, a so called " IVORY HEAD " best seen on the imperf penny reds but also on some two pence blue
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renden
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Post by renden on May 24, 2019 15:48:32 GMT
Interesting- were any of the stamps actually printed on blue or was it simply a reaction to the potassium ferrocyanide? (sounds nasty but it doesn't break down to form cyanide!) stainlessb - Stan Cannot answer your 1st question but Ferric Ferrocyanide and Ferric Ammonium Ferrocyanide are safe for use in coloring externally applied cosmetics and personal care products, including products applied to the area of the eye, when these ingredients conform to FDA specifications. Ref: smeticsinfo.org/ingredient/ferric-ferrocyanide en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_ferrocyanide
René
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 19, 2021 11:09:51 GMT
This is the only Penny Black I have, a GB 1840 1d intense black SG 1 Plate 8.
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angore
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Post by angore on Jul 19, 2021 11:32:42 GMT
I do not have one.
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Jul 19, 2021 13:52:22 GMT
Nor do I!
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REL1948
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What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, Postal Histories
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Post by REL1948 on Jul 19, 2021 14:28:38 GMT
I've never owned a Penny Black either. Early on, I saw the GB Queen Victoria stamps as too much $$$$$ (I only collect Mint when possible) so I skipped the GB Victoria issues altogether. Thought of having a "Loner Queen" page but I've never liked the idea of single stamp pages. I might pick up a nicely centered copy someday but as a targeted stamp, it's a low priority for me at this time.
I am definitely in awe of its historical importance.
Rob
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renden
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Post by renden on Jul 19, 2021 14:50:43 GMT
My 1st one, a 1a (darker) (scan) was given to me by my late dad when I was 12 as a X-Mas gift for my collection - I have aquired 2nd one ( won during a TSF contest). Love the history of the PB !!
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daveg28
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Post by daveg28 on Jul 19, 2021 16:40:04 GMT
I could be that we all should have one, but I do not. Alas. I have a Penny Blue. Is that close? is that even what it's called?
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renden
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Post by renden on Jul 19, 2021 16:54:05 GMT
I could be that we all should have one, but I do not. Alas. I have a Penny Blue. Is that close? is that even what it's called? Show us your Penny Blue, Dave - I think I do not have any - my inventory says NO !! René
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Post by daniel on Jul 19, 2021 17:39:29 GMT
I could be that we all should have one, but I do not. Alas. I have a Penny Blue. Is that close? is that even what it's called? Rowland Hill did have two sheets printed of the Penny Black using blue ink so that he could judge its appearance. There is one known used example which came out of 10 Downing Street! It is exceptionally rare. More likely, Dave, daveg28 , means a Two Pence Blue Although these exist (also without the 2015 overprint): 1940 Phil Congres 2015 overprint by Daniel, on Flickr
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renden
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Post by renden on Jul 19, 2021 19:42:24 GMT
2 pence Penny Blue - Yes
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Post by leefranks711 on Jul 20, 2021 17:39:52 GMT
Greetings stampers.
I do not own one either. My intention is to purchase one at Stampex this Autumn.
Are they generally less expensive at the show or should I go somewhere else? What percentage of catalogue value should I pay?
Regards. Lee.
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Jul 20, 2021 18:13:45 GMT
You'll pay according to condition. I was going to buy a nice full margin, red Maltese cross cancel, but decided against it. £325 IIRC. Maybe if I see another similar I'll jump!
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renden
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Post by renden on Jul 20, 2021 18:56:51 GMT
You'll pay according to condition. I was going to buy a nice full margin, red Maltese cross cancel, but decided against it. £325 IIRC. Maybe if I see another similar I'll jump! I have one, not for sale
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Post by clivel on Jul 20, 2021 19:56:22 GMT
What percentage of catalogue value should I pay? As brightonpete mentioned, condition is everything, well that and plate number. SG recently put out an interesting video illustrating the difference between a £20 and a £13,500 Penny Black as well as a few priced between these two extremes. Clive
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renden
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Post by renden on Jul 20, 2021 20:02:42 GMT
clivelTherefore, all the catalogs in the world cannot give a value for a # 1 (not 1a) Penny Black !! and SG is the authority on CV ? René
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Post by clivel on Jul 20, 2021 20:02:57 GMT
Penny black forgeries are not uncommon. Any hints as to how to differentiate between the genuine and a forgery would be appreciated. Thanks, Clive
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radiocruncher
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Post by radiocruncher on Jul 20, 2021 20:46:33 GMT
Sadly I don’t have a penny black. In fact I don’t have much QV at all which is a shame as I collect GB 😭
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radiocruncher
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Post by radiocruncher on Jul 20, 2021 20:47:34 GMT
You'll pay according to condition. I was going to buy a nice full margin, red Maltese cross cancel, but decided against it. £325 IIRC. Maybe if I see another similar I'll jump! I have one, not for sale That’s a very nice example
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radiocruncher
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Post by radiocruncher on Jul 20, 2021 20:50:10 GMT
This is the only Penny Black I have, a GB 1840 1d intense black SG 1 Plate 8. That’s very nice
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renden
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Post by renden on Jul 20, 2021 20:56:09 GMT
Another I have and it could (maybe) sell for C$ peanuts !! Penny Black Sc # 1 - plate it if you wish René
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Jul 20, 2021 21:37:00 GMT
Penny black forgeries are not uncommon. Any hints as to how to differentiate between the genuine and a forgery would be appreciated. Thanks, Clive
The first thing I would check if in doubt, Does it have a water mark clearly visible on the back ? most reprint forgeries do not have the small crown watermark. renden , your last example is not a bad looker. 4 margins is good , a bit grubby needs a good bath , possible small damage top left star but I could see £60- £70 range provided the back has no thin spots .
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renden
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What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Jul 20, 2021 21:53:09 GMT
Penny black forgeries are not uncommon. Any hints as to how to differentiate between the genuine and a forgery would be appreciated. Thanks, Clive
The first thing I would check if in doubt, Does it have a water mark clearly visible on the back ? most reprint forgeries do not have the small crown watermark. renden , your last example is not a bad looker. 4 margins is good , a bit grubby needs a good bath , possible small damage top left star but I could see £60- £70 range provided the back has no thin spots . Appreciate your comment and opinion !! A good bath - I do not bathe stamps often - the person who will take care of it will do that René
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Jul 20, 2021 21:56:41 GMT
clivel Therefore, all the catalogs in the world cannot give a value for a # 1 (not 1a) Penny Black !! and SG is the authority on CV ? René Not so! sG does give a catalogue value , if you follow the video Clive highlights above , you will realise that the value in the catalogue represents a clean , 4 even margin, with a decent Maltese cross and overall fine appearance. change any criterion , grubby, incomplete or narrow margins, messy cancel or slightly ‘tired’ then the market price drops accordingly. improve any aspect beyond the fine specimen with an unusual cancel , extra wide margins etc and the market asks a premium. like any 2nd hand auto, there is a dealer’s handbook with current price guide for a good used model . The market price will be affected , up if mileage is low, condition is fresh and if there are fancy extras, and adversely for heavy use and bodywork blemishes.
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renden
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Post by renden on Jul 20, 2021 22:08:05 GMT
vikingeck - at times I like how you think It makes sense and btw my Penny Black with full Maltese Cross would be Numero Uno Sc 1a (black) - received decades ago (at age 12) !! René
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anglobob
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Post by anglobob on Jul 20, 2021 23:06:20 GMT
leefranks711I have been to 2 Stampex exhibitions and have found that prices are generally higher than at other shows.However,there are more dealers and more choices ,so if you have the time to explore and check things out,you might be able to find a few good deals. Anglobob
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