kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 15, 2019 13:55:03 GMT
My opinion-FDC classified as Souvenirs. I subdivide into souvenir, private or business.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 15, 2019 14:14:33 GMT
Kosmo: You do know your stamps, and I respect your opinion. As to the original souvenir cover I posted from Uzbekistan, do you have an opinion about whether its stamps (the ones shown in the scan below) are a fabrication of the person creating the cover? Do you have any information about whether a row of CCCP 3K stamps missed the Uzbek 30.00R overprint in printing? Also, do you have any information about whether the 20.00R overprint on the CCCP 1K may have been actually issued? I do appreciate that you originally provided a block of 4 of the Uzbek 2.00R overprint on CCCP 1K. The one pictured below appears to be a 20.00R overprint. Any information?
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 15, 2019 14:27:18 GMT
Kosmo: You do know your stamps, and I respect your opinion. As to the original souvenir cover I posted from Uzbekistan, do you have an opinion about whether its stamps (the ones shown in the scan below) are a fabrication of the person creating the cover? Do you have any information about whether a row of CCCP 3K stamps missed the Uzbek 30.00R overprint in printing? Also, do you have any information about whether the 20.00R overprint on the CCCP 1K may have been actually issued? I do appreciate that you originally provided a block of 4 of the Uzbek 2.00R overprint on CCCP 1K. The one pictured below appears to be a 20.00R overprint. Any information? I do not have such information about Uzbekistan, but I will ask and inform.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 15, 2019 14:30:23 GMT
Kosmo: I like your definition of First Day Covers as souvenirs. In the 1950s when I was a child, my parents taught me how to write by having me order "cacheted" covers from companies like Artmaster, Fleetwood and other domestic cachet printers. I would address them for return to me, then send them to the primary Post Office releasing the new issue, which would return them by mail with the newly issued stamp with a first day cancel. That may be more than just a souvenir value. The question remains today as to U.S. first day covers of the period, what do you do with the tens of millions of nearly identical first day covers so created by millions of people?
CORRECTION: I just realized, that is not how I learned to write. That is how I learned to type. My parents had me typewrite letters to order the cachets and send to the postmasters. I typed my return address on the covers. The politicness of it all is that you are never too young to learn to use the most modern methods of communications available at the time. ["Politicness" is an arcane word used during the American Revolution.]
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 15, 2019 14:33:19 GMT
Kosmo: I like your definition of First Day Covers as souvenirs. In the 1950s when I was a child, my parents taught me how to write by having me order "cacheted" covers from companies like Artmaster, Fleetwood and other domestic cachet printers. I would address them for return to me, then send them to the primary Post Office releasing the new issue, which would return them by mail with the newly issued stamp with a first day cancel. That may be more than just a souvenir value. The question remains today as to U.S. first day covers of the period, what do you do with the tens of millions of nearly identical first day covers so created by millions of people? Collect,if you are interested!I believe that it is worthy to exist! I like this!You can call it a souvenir, but still very beautiful!
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 15, 2019 14:51:52 GMT
Yes, it is. 50 years in space. Our countries have gone a long way. Actually 60 years.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 15, 2019 14:53:17 GMT
Yes, it is. 50 years in space. Our countries have gone a long way. 55)
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 15, 2019 14:57:30 GMT
Laika ' Лайка ' in Sputnik 2 on November 3, 1957 got past suborbital space.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 15, 2019 15:06:17 GMT
Laika ' Лайка ' in Sputnik 2 on November 3, 1957 got past suborbital space. The theme of space is immense. Лайка
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 15, 2019 15:25:38 GMT
To Kosmo: thank you for posting Лайка (Laika). Souvenir or not, that is worth collecting.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 15, 2019 15:30:28 GMT
To Kosmo: thank you for posting Лайка (Laika). Souvenir or not, that is worth collecting. The three cards below are a private issue!
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on May 15, 2019 16:28:42 GMT
Souvenir or not, those covers are very collectible!
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renden
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Post by renden on May 15, 2019 16:32:49 GMT
Souvenir or not, those covers are very collectible! Agree again, Pete and they have a listed value (in Unitrade Canada 2019)....the word souvenir is nice but has a tendency to keep the newbie "off track" about philately René
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 15, 2019 22:21:24 GMT
I like Kosmo's three classifications, souvenir, private and business usages. Most everything fits there and government official business mail is distinguished from government souvenirs, both of which are highly collectible. My concern relates only to a potential sub-category that may apply to each classification. Let me explain. The division of British India in 1947 into Pakistan and India created much in philatelic collectibles in a collecting area already rich in postal history. Early in the 1970s, but before March 1971, I was trading with people from around the world stamps for various quantities of small denomination coins to supply bookstores and other shops around my college campus to sell to students. A person I had contacted in East Pakistan asked how many I wanted and I asked how many were available. He informed me that the total value of all of the lowest denomination coin available in circulation in East Pakistan was $145.00. Obviously that was more coins than I was seeking. In early March 1971, the West Pakistan portion of the Pakistani government sent troops to put down dissent in East Pakistan, with East Pakistan gaining independence in December 1971, naming their new country, Bangladesh. Major groups fighting for liberation used the name "Mukti Fouze" ("freedom fighters" or "liberation forces"). By 1972-73, dealer fabricated covers with "Mukti Fouze," "Mail carried by the Boy Scouts," and liberation day rubber stamped covers began appearing in the U.S. at prices of $25.00 to $35.00 or more each. Yes, these could be called "souvenirs," but they were nothing more than someone combining genuine stamps with phony markings that never saw any legitimate use in the country of purported origin. It would be like British covers from January to March 1971 when the postal workers strike caused the British mails to be suspended to be each worth 20% or more of all of the British pennies in circulation at the time. The question also implicates "c.t.o." or "cancelled to order" stamps and reprints that governments have issued in sheet quantities to meet collector demands. An additional problem arises even with reprints intended for use. For example, in 1917 the 1st Russian Provisional Government reprinted the old Tsarist designs and sold them imperforate. While intended for use, those who might have created a Bangladesh "Multi Fouze" cover were not incapable of trimming a previously perforated Russian stamp issue to create a rare reprinted imperforate variety. I think Kosmo's classifications acknowledge legitimate souvenirs for what they are, and again, souvenirs are highly collectible. If you really want to rattle the cages of specialists of souvenir covers, ask collectors of first flight covers if they can identify the flight a cover was carried on when it is not a first flight. I am just trying to find out if the stamps on the Uzbekistan souvenir cover I posted are genuine.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 16, 2019 4:04:08 GMT
I was taking a "souvenir" cover to mean something issued to commemorate a special event as opposed to a cover sent in the normal course of the mails, though its contents could be special to the sender (like a birthday card). With covers sold by a post office with special cachets (like the Russian ones in the pictures), their normal usage as opposed to first day use could be considered as a way to distinguish between a "souvenir" and ordinary usage. What do you think? P.S. Congratulations Kosmo on reaching full membership status with the Stamp Forum. I still have a little way to go.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 17, 2019 5:52:26 GMT
Here is an 1882 Russia pre-stamped card, labeled "Open Letter' ОТКРЫТОЕ ПИСЬМО (Otkrytoye pis'mo). I am assuming the "Open Letter" designation is to indicate the opposite of a "Sealed Letter" and intended to mean a postcard, the content of which is visible to all who can see it. It was mailed on May 29, 1882 from Fellin (Viljandi, Estonia) фЕЛЛИНЂ. 29 MAИ. 1882, sent via Riga (Latvia) РИГА 31 MAЯ 1882 (31 May 1882) to Leipzig. What appears to be the arrival marking is dated and timed 14 June 12-1 N. I believe the 'N' is for the German word, "Nachmittags," which means "in the afternoon." The few dictionaries I checked for "Open Letter" only provided a single definition with all saying about the same. For example, Webster's New World Dictionary, 3rd ed. (1988), defines "Open Letter" as: "a letter written as to a specific person, often in attack, criticism, etc., but published in a newspaper or magazine for everyone to read." I do remember that when I was young, I was told that if I sent a message on a postcard, the postman could see what I was writing, but I cannot recall any printed "notice" that the pre-stamped card was "open letter." My question is whether during the 19th Century before the term "postcard" came into common usage, did other countries besides Russia refer to some of their official (pre-printed stamp) card issues as "Open Letters?" Any comments? P.S., Note the date on the back indicates both the Gregorian and Julian calendar dates.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 17, 2019 8:33:38 GMT
Bulgaria
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 17, 2019 10:30:31 GMT
On the difference between an "Open Letter" and a "Sealed letter," as we all know, stampless covers were sealed with wax. As the scans below show, sometimes the seal was simple (as with seal on the 1815-16 Russia to USA cover discussed above), and sometimes the seals were works of art (as with the seal of the British East India Company on the 1822 cover shown in scan). The British Postage Act of 1819 (59 Geo 3 c.111, 12th July 1819) provided: "XXVI. And be it further enacted, That if any Person to whom any Letters may be entrusted by the Master of any Ship or Vessel, sealed up in the manner required by this Act, shall break the Seal, or in any manner open the same, or shall not duly deliver the same without wilful or unavoidable Delay, every Person so offending shall forfeit and pay for every such Offence the Sum of Twenty Pounds." So half a century before the "open Letter" postcards were used, it appears that one suffered a severe penalty (Twenty Pounds for each letter in 1819) for breaking the seal and opening the letter. Perhaps that distinction between sealed and open letters gives raise to the "postcard" as it was cheaper to mail than a full letter sheet?
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 17, 2019 16:00:07 GMT
An additional question about "Open Letters" verses "Sealed Letters." The British Postage Act of 1819 permitted postal agents to search a ship on arrival in a British port to see if any letters or packets were being hidden by the crew (to avoid paying ship fees) with severe monetary penalties imposed if found. I cannot remember at this time if I have seen an actual stampless cover from the period that was addressed to a crew member. Does anyone have any information about whether a ship crew member was subject to ship fees on arrival in port for personal letters that had been addressed to them that they may have received before port arrival? That could account for the reason these are not often seen. Can anyone provide a scan of a stampless cover addressed to a crew member at his ship?
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 18, 2019 3:10:49 GMT
Both Kosmo and I posted among the souvenir post-Soviet covers above, similar covers that included an imperforate Chechen Republic stamp, both of which appear to be from the same 1992 set. See scans of enlargements of the stamps below. I cannot find Chechen Republic stamps in my 2009 Scott's international catalogues. Were these stamps actually independently valid for postage in the Chenchen Republic? KOSMO, sorry about the poor quality of the scan at the left. I could not a clear enlargement from the original.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 18, 2019 8:29:25 GMT
Sorry to overload everyone with questions. Here's a December 19, 1932 cover to San Francisco from Novocherassk Новочерка́сск (referred to by some as the cultural capital of the Cossacks), with a 15 kopeck stamp that should be Scott #421. The 15k stamp should be Olive-Green, but this one has red parts the color of the similar design 7k (Scott #418). Is the color change something that happen over time, or is my imagination running wild so I could think it is something else? Any comments? Thanks. Please note: The envelope is made of recycled paper - not today's recycled paper. The sender took a used sheet of paper and folded it into an envelope.
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Post by jimwentzell on May 18, 2019 11:14:08 GMT
January 1, 1939 cover from Russia. Actually a "sealed letter" similar to an aerogramme but I'm not sure what to call it, other than it appears to also be registered! Jim Wentzell stampguyaps177-681
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Post by jimwentzell on May 18, 2019 11:23:22 GMT
Russia November 21, 1916. A Prisoner of War (POW) card mailed from Tashkent to Vienna, Austria, likely from a captured Russian soldier's family inquiring about an interned friend or family member during the "Great World War" (World War One) or WWI. Got this in a dealer's Euro cover box (either for €1 or €2) in Sindelfingen, Germany near Stuttgart in October of 2018. Can't wait to wade through hundreds more dealers Euro cover boxes this October, as it's one of the bigger annual stamp shows in Germany! Jim Wentzell stampguyaps177-681
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 18, 2019 13:44:36 GMT
Sorry to overload everyone with questions. Here's a December 19, 1932 cover to San Francisco from Novocherassk Новочерка́сск (referred to by some as the cultural capital of the Cossacks), with a 15 kopeck stamp that should be Scott #421. The 15k stamp should be Olive-Green, but this one has red parts the color of the similar design 7k (Scott #418). Is the color change something that happen over time, or is my imagination running wild so I could think it is something else? Any comments? Thanks. Please note: The envelope is made of recycled paper - not today's recycled paper. The sender took a used sheet of paper and folded it into an envelope. Color change due to silicate glue.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 18, 2019 13:52:15 GMT
January 1, 1939 cover from Russia. Actually a "sealed letter" similar to an aerogramme but I'm not sure what to call it, other than it appears to also be registered! Jim Wentzell stampguyaps177-681 There were many variants of closed letters.Some look like aerograms.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 19, 2019 3:56:03 GMT
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 20, 2019 1:47:55 GMT
Two comments/questions about the "covers" I posted yesterday. (1) The one inscribed " LETTRE FERMÉE " is not a Letter Sheet but a regular envelope. (2) I need a little help with the 1878 "Open Letter" ОТКРЫТОЕ ПИСЬМО inscribed "Foreign" ИНОГОРОДНОЕ from St. Petersburg to Leipzig, Germany. The scans below show its back and an enlargement of an oval marking stamped there. I cannot fully make out what that marking says. I have obtained a partial translation that appears to say: [-] ЖНNЙ . МАГАЗИНЪ (tentatively " [-] Day Magazine ") and C.ПЕТЕРБУРГ Ъ НЕВСИ IИПР [-] (St. Petersburg News [-]). " In addition to the characters indicated by " [-] " I cannot fully read the characters in the middle of the stamp. Can someone help me out? Thank you.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 20, 2019 2:15:07 GMT
Here are two Russian stamps I need a little help with. (1) Central Union USSR and RSFSR Cooperating Union Stamp Ruble 1 Ruble , ЦЕНТРОСОЮЗ СССР и РСфСР КООПеРаМИВНаЯ ПаеВаЯ МаРКа РУБЛЬ 1 РУБЛЬ . Is this a membership dues stamp or something else? (2) " [- -] in Benefit of R.O. Red Cross " 5 Kopek. " [- -]ОРЪ ВЪ ПОЛЬЗУ Р.О. КРАСНАГО KРЕСТА КОП. 5 КОП. " I just cannot make out the first two characters as a perforated letter (perfin) goes through them. Do anyone have one that shows the missing characters and/or know the date of issue? Thank you.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 20, 2019 8:00:33 GMT
1 .I will write about these stamps later.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 20, 2019 12:01:54 GMT
1. It's just an envelope.. 2. bookstore St. Petersburg, Nevsky .Thirteen Книжный магазин Август Дейбнер Санкт-Петербург, Невский,13. Publishing and shops in Germany now Deubner Verlag & Co GmbH Now at Nevsky,13 is a bookstore "Bukvoed". № 13/9 Дом Чаплиных 1804–1806 гг.
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