skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Feb 22, 2022 4:08:00 GMT
Another picture (sorry, they are photos because I don't have access to a scanner)
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Feb 22, 2022 4:42:58 GMT
Here is another comparison of reprints. It is a comparison of the reprints held at Te Papa (New Zealand Post Museum Collection at Te Papa) from the Reference Collection of the General Post Office (GPO) (assume to be printed at the same time as the Hausburgs, but on paper) and what I call the Kings reprints and Ken Lynch suggests may have been used to clean the plates for the Hausburg reprints. (scans taken at the same time and provided by Pat Brownsey of Te Papa). Do you think they are different? (The scans that I call the Agent General reprints are from the top half of the plate and may be a full Jolliffe sheet as mentioned in my previous post)
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Feb 23, 2022 6:11:06 GMT
Here are some comparisons with London proofs. The main background is a known Jolliffe (from the book). The 1d is obviously a London proof as it has no wear. The 6d is probably a London proof as I know of no other reprint of the 6d on this type of paper. The single 2d is the item that started all this and I was not sure if it was a reprint or a proof. The middle 2d block of 4 is probably a London Plate I proof. The right 2d block of 4 is what was considered a London proof of Plate II (which is on previous images) and I am trying to identify. Sorry, this is a photo again.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,250
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Feb 24, 2022 6:05:57 GMT
Hi Mark
In the absence of any other response to your showings I will make a very simple comment, albeit the Chalon Proofs & Reprints papers are not my specialty area as I haven't really studied them previously.
To me, looking at your images taken with a phone camera, they all look rather the same - and if they are the same as the 'Joliffe' examples from the book 'The History of New Zealand Stamps' then I can only conclude that they are from the 'Joliffe' sheets, probably from the top 13 rows of those sheets used to make the book copies - rows 14 to 20.
One or two of the examples you show 'seem' to be on a smoother type of paper - Proofs were printed on 'India' paper after all and then mounted onto card stock.
Hopefully Grant and/or Philip can make some comment with their knowledge on the subject.
Cheers
Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Feb 28, 2022 0:24:50 GMT
Thanks Dave. I was waiting for some more feedback before providing my opinion. But since we have not recieved any. Here it is.
Here is my interpretation of the comparisons.
I think there is a clear difference between the GPO Reference Collection reprints (Te Papa) and the Kings reprints. First, the tone of the GPO reprints is darker, although differences in toning could be caused by differences in storage conditions. Secondly, the GPO reprints have a higher density of visible fibers, and they show a more vertical pattern. Both of these are clearly different in tone and texture from the proofs and Jolliffes.
I think there is a clear difference between the London proofs of the 1d, 2d, and 1s and the Jolliffes. First, again the toning is darker for the proofs compared to the Jolliffe. Second, the Jolliffes have more of a horizontal pattern. Finally, the borders and image on the proofs are more apparent through the back. The 6d single also looks the same as the proofs.
The Agent General reprints (those form the top part of the plate that could be from a full sheet of the Jolliffes) are similar to the Jolliffe reprints from the book, but are darker tone. The Agent General reprints may be a little rougher and have finer fibers, but any difference is very slight.
What is thought to be a 2d Plate II proof is very similar to the Jolliffe reprints from the book. However, the paper texture (seen from the back) does appear to be slightly smoother and the black ink on the front is a slightly darker black. Therefore, if it is a Jolliffe, then it is probably not from the same sheet as the others from the top half of the plate.
The single 2d plate II from the top half of the plate is very similar to the Jolliffes from the book and is possibly a left over from the row for which the single included in the book was cut from.
In conclusion, the GPO and Kings reprints are different from each other and different from the other proofs and reprints. The London proofs are different from the reprints and the 6d is probably a London proof on the same paper. Other than tone, there are only slight differences among the other reprints (all 2d Plate II: Jolliffe, Agent General, proof). The toning may be due to differences in storage conditions and there may be natural variations among sheets of the same type of reprints.
My next steps will be to use a scanner for better images and to look at natural variation among reprints of the same reprints (i.e. Jolliffe from the book [bottom section of the plate]).
Note that I think the die proofs are on Indian paper not the plate proofs.
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Mar 1, 2022 3:50:49 GMT
P.S. despite the 2d Plate II London proof being slightly darker black, it has less shading (dots) on the queens neck and less definition in the camisole [or whatever the "shirt" is] (see first post on previous page).
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murfz1
**Member**
Posts: 48
What I collect: New Zealand Chalons and Associated Material
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Post by murfz1 on Mar 24, 2022 9:32:15 GMT
Been awhile since I posted an item. This arrived in the post recently. Its a full sheet of the green reproduction of the 1906 Hausburg plate done by Arnart with the permission of the Postmaster General. A nice addition to the collection.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,250
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Mar 24, 2022 20:05:35 GMT
Now that would look good in my study :-)
Did it come framed already or did you get it framed?
Looks great anyway. Well done
Dave
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murfz1
**Member**
Posts: 48
What I collect: New Zealand Chalons and Associated Material
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Post by murfz1 on Mar 26, 2022 0:07:42 GMT
DK that's how it came. Framed very clean. It looks great on the wall. Love to get a set.....black, red, blue and the green now secured.
Regards Andrew
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gc
Member
Posts: 266
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Post by gc on Mar 26, 2022 20:03:00 GMT
Very nice Andrew, well done on securing that item. Grant
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 6, 2022 23:23:23 GMT
I just noticed a Noble Sprint auction on e-bay where a block of 4 2d Plate II "proofs" had 24 bids and went for US$56. link Probably R17-18 No 9-10, so has the damage and retouches. Stated to be on card, so probably Hausburg, but even if they were Jolliffe, that's a lot of bids and a high price given the amount of these produced. Anyone have an idea of why so much interest?
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 6, 2022 23:33:03 GMT
DK that's how it came. Framed very clean. It looks great on the wall. Love to get a set.....black, red, blue and the green now secured. Regards Andrew Hi Andrew, Nice full sheet reproduction. I had a look at your proof, reprint, reproduction page. It looks like you have added a few more to your collection since I last looked. Looks good. Is the red you refer to the reprint from the die in the Postage Stamps of New Zealand Vol II? or are you talking about what you mention on your webpage that "These are an example of a "Reprint" these were made by the New Post for the Philatelic Youth Council stand at Auckland in 1990. There are three colors of these, Blue, Green and Red." That would mean there are 2 green types (Arnart and Philatelic Youth Council) and two red types (PSNZ and Philatelic Youth Council). Regards, Mark
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 6, 2022 23:47:04 GMT
Hi all Check this out ( found it in my archives ) Talk about make you go dizzy ( very nice double print ) Cheers Grant Grant, Another possibility for this is the Philatelic Youth Council reprints that Andrew refers to on his website.
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 15, 2022 22:16:50 GMT
All the "Hausburg" reprints on paper I have seen, including the full rows and the very large blocks, have small selvage. They could have been printed like this or the whole sheet trimmed. In addition to the tone and fiber pattern, this is something that differentiates them from the sheets held in Te Papa. Note that the Jolliffe from the book have very small selvage, but the blocks from the full sheet of the "Jolliffe" have large margin. But then I realized I had this example with a large margin. I just considered it another 2d Plate I on paper due to the heavy wear, but it could be a poor printing of a 2d Plate II from the worn part of the plate. Either way, it is on paper, similar to that of the paper "Hausburgs", but with a large selvage. Anyone else seen a paper "Hausburg" with large selvage? The single is the reprint I am referring too and the block of 4 is a paper "Hausburg". The other two are showing the small selvage on the paper "Hausburg". (sorry for the 300 dpi scan as that is all I have access too)
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,659
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 15, 2022 22:39:26 GMT
Hi, skid : I did post the image below back in Oct-2021. Does the selvedge at right qualify for the larger size you are asking about? I apologize for the less-than-stellar quality of this image. It is a photo taken from a dealer's stock at the Charing Cross Market in London, and the lighting was not optimal.
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 15, 2022 22:54:32 GMT
Thanks. Yes, that would qualify as large selvage, but from your previous post it is on card, not paper. So it is the actual 2d Plate II Hausburg reprints printed for the unpublished book. I am looking for the paper "Hausburgs", that I am tentatively calling the Kings reprints since they might be the ones given to the King and a 2nd set kept by Hausburg and passed on to the Mann collection and subsequently sold at auction, when the Mann auction was sold (although they were not included in the auction catalog). [image posting still not working]
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 15, 2022 23:05:16 GMT
Ah right, skid, thanks for clarifying. All of the Hausburg reprint examples that I saw were printed on card rather than paper. I will keep my eyes peeled for the King's Reprints!
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 24, 2022 9:32:02 GMT
Hi everyone. I am trying to plate a 2d proof/reprint, but not having any luck. The top two reprints have some marks on the outside of the lower left borders. Unfortunately, I don't have a scan of the middle section of the 2d Plate II Hapsburgs. Does anyone know the position of these or have a high resolution scan of the middle that they can send me. Thanks, mark P.S. I have been scheduled to give a presentation on my reprint research at the RPSNZ Zoom meeting 5th May NZDT 7:30pm.
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 30, 2022 21:06:16 GMT
Hi Mark The bottom block of 9 is from Rows 16-18, No's 7-9 The large 4d block I have no idea sorry. The large 6d block I also have no idea sorry. The lathe 1/- block I also have no idea sorry. The large 3d block I would guess Rows 4-12, No's 1-12 ( based on the central guide line between Rows 10 and 12 ) Regards Grant I finally had the time to check against the Te Papa reprints and they are all from rows 4-12.
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 30, 2022 21:24:52 GMT
I have posted these before, but wanted to know if anyone has seen this or knows what it is. It is about twice as large as the issued stamp, is in red rather than blue as is the Vol. I of the RPSNZ book. It has impressions on the back as if it was made using a die. Could it be what is mentioned on Andrew's proof, reprint, reproduction page. "These are an example of a "Reprint" these were made by the New Post for the Philatelic Youth Council stand at Auckland in 1990. There are three colors of these, Blue, Green and Red." (Probably not as they dond have the impression on the back) Thanks, Mark
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,250
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 30, 2022 22:15:54 GMT
The smaller of the 2 you show Mark is from vol.2 of the RPSNZ handbooks. They were on a full page so have been cut down as in your example. These are best left intact in the books but, admittedly, look pretty good as you have it there.
The larger one I haven't seen before so cannot comment. More research needed there.
Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 30, 2022 22:57:31 GMT
Thanks Dave, I have two copies of vol.2 of the RPSNZ handbooks and have been tempted to cut out the reprints if I ever exhibit, but can't bring myself to do it. I will probably purchase some that have already been cut out. I included the vol.2 because it is interesting that the oversized copy is also in red. It is the impression on the back of the oversized copy that intrigues me. Was a "die" was made to produce this, or did the printing process simply form the indents. And if they went to the trouble to make a die, why is it not more common? And how and why did they make a die?
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on May 10, 2022 5:24:36 GMT
I just optioned a copy of the Postage Stamps of New Zealand Vol. I and I noted two things.
First the copy of the Jolliffe reprints accompanying the book are on glossy paper, but the prints look almost silver in appearance.
Second, on page 31 there is an image of all 6 values on a single pane. The images are very clear. There is no identifiable lines indicating that they have been put together from different reprints like the images for the re-entries on the following pages, or if they are they are very faint. It appears as if they were put on the same sheet of paper in a single printing. Does anyone know if there are any presentation prints or trade samples that were made will all values?
Thanks,
Mark
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on May 10, 2022 5:27:12 GMT
It was suggested that this is from the 1955 exhibition.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,250
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 11, 2022 3:04:08 GMT
Does anyone know if there are any presentation prints or trade samples that were made will all values? I am not aware of any Mark. Doesn't mean to say there aren't any, just that I have no knowledge of any. Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,250
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 12, 2022 4:31:50 GMT
Have just received this in. It is a 1/- Chalon reprint on a medium wove, unwatermaked paper. The paper doesnt appear to be rough as per the 'Postal Dept Archives Reproductions 1906' so I am not sure which reprint it is, unless it is a plate proof! but its rather attractive all the same :-) Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on May 12, 2022 5:54:20 GMT
Nice Dave, I think I saw that on e-bay and even bid for it. Hard to tell from a isolated scan of a single. Much easier if you scan next to an example with rough paper or if it was a pair or block. In the proofs you can see the borders from the back on blocks. No other 1/- paper reprints seen by collectors other than the paper Hasuburgs. The only other ones I have seen are those in Te Papa and they are not supposed to be in circulation. It could be a "Kings" or "Agent" general reprint, but my guess is the "Kings" are the paper hausburgs and the agent general was only the 2d plate II. My guess is you picked yourself up a nice London proof. Lee and Watts state one type "On medium thick white wove paper, no watermark, imperforate, printed in black"
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Post by michael on May 12, 2022 7:17:52 GMT
I won these Hausburg reprints at a UK auction recently. Saw them late so they were bought with only seeing 1 image. I was rather dissapointed with the quality (a bit blotchy in places) and margins but not sufficient for them to be returned. At least they are off my wants list now
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skid
Member
Posts: 327
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on May 12, 2022 8:45:48 GMT
Hi Michael. The blotchiness is quite typical as they were printed after the plates were stopped being used and the printing could be on rough paper. Also the ink tends to come off if stored on top of each other. It would be interesting to know if these are on card or paper, and if paper is it smooth or rough and fibrous . You are missing the 2d Plate I, which is worn like the 1d. Sorry to resurrect your wants list
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gc
Member
Posts: 266
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Post by gc on May 13, 2022 19:59:40 GMT
Hi Guys I have just uploaded a lot of material on New Zealand "Trade Me" site for sale Below is just one item Happy bidding Grant
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