WERT
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Post by WERT on Nov 10, 2019 20:18:13 GMT
This is my earliest date of the Dec,25, 1898 map stamp. It has a cancel date of Dec,27, 1898....2 days after issue.
Robert
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 11, 2019 8:21:53 GMT
From another posting, the earliest date cancel in my collection is 16 December, 1898 as shown here which according to all of my reference materials is nine days after the issue date of 7 December, 1898. I am curious though as I do not have a Unitrade catalogue, what do they list the issue date as for this stamp?
Looking at my stamp again, I can see a strong guideline that runs the entire length immediately beneath the bottom cable, typical for the bottom row of the sheet.
and at the same time, given the extra island in the Indian Ocean Group (I.O.G.), along with the compass point just on the edge of the Gulf of Tonkin, this is an image from Plate 1A - Position 97.
Always good to take a second look...
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 15, 2019 12:30:25 GMT
Here is another plate variety from the 1898 issue of the map stamp; this one cancelled in Columbus, Ontario on 30 October, 1899.
In addition to the extra island in the Indian Ocean Group from Plate A, there is an extensive double re-cut creating an extra horizontal line that extends the length in bottom rope.
Although not conclusive as the descriptions from the Tomlinson text are somewhat vague, given the red plate anomalies and heavier ink, this stamp is likely from Plate 3A - Position 97.
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Nov 15, 2019 16:09:20 GMT
stanley64...Nice line on the bottom rope. There are sooooooo many oddities with these map stamps..Especially colour shifts, island missing and extra islands. Her is an example of islands just on this block alone.
Robert
   image uploading site  |
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 29, 2019 7:13:29 GMT
Given some additional time with the loupe and Frederick Tomlinson's text "The Canadian map stamp of 1898", I think this stamp belongs to Plate 2 & Position 99. Even though the author does not note the heavy notch mark beneath the X in XMAS, nor the separation of the line above the left value tablet when comparing the Plate A island positions to other known copies, this is likely from Plates 2A, Position 99, but it is open and requires confirmation...
Thanks for looking Ralph ( strangeanimal) and for the confirmation of plate & position; it is much appreciated! |
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 29, 2019 14:14:18 GMT
stanley64Did Ralph post his opinion ? on this TSF or a simple PM - I know he joined our group but he is so busy !! as WERT mentioned many times. René
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blaamand
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Post by blaamand on Nov 29, 2019 14:16:12 GMT
Thanks to Vince and Robert for all the interesting posts in this thread. You guys even inspired me to do some flyspecking on these myself. They seem to be a treasure trove for just that, even inexperienced flyspeckers (like me) can relatively easily find interesting varieties. I thought I would never do this, but I did put aside a few copies with extra islands never the less. Plating? Pass, I'll leave that for the experts. Anyway, please keep this thread going, I have been enjoying it in silence. Thanks!
Stanley, I still have the Xmas stamp René gave me (with Ottawa duplex) waiting for shipping to Portugal. Thought I would wait and see if I find any more Xmas dups to go in the same letter first, just wanted to say I haven't forgotten about it, it will come eventually 😊
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 29, 2019 14:21:54 GMT
Stanley, I still have the Xmas stamp René gave me (with Ottawa duplex) waiting for shipping to Portugal. Thought I would wait and see if I find any more Xmas dups to go in the same letter first, just wanted to say I haven't forgotten about it, it will come eventually 😊 I liked that Ottawa "duplex", Jon blaamand - happy it will be in very good hands - Since I bought some other Map cancels, which are in Album (Canada) and they stay here as I got to like them - No plating for me also  René |
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 29, 2019 18:00:25 GMT
stanley64 Did Ralph post his opinion ? on this TSF or a simple PM - I know he joined our group but he is so busy !! as WERT mentioned many times. René Ralph's confirmation came via an email, but I did want to share and update the posting as it had been left open as to whether or not the stamp shared was in fact Plate 2A, Position 99.
Indeed, I understand he is busy and I prefer not to bother the experts too much with my plating questions as more than half the fun is determining this position on your own ;-) but do appreciate the email exchange we've had!
Speaking of doing it yourself, if anyone finds either of these two texts available, please let me know as I have been looking for some time now and would like to add them to the library shelf... The Canadian Map Stamp of 1898 - A Plating Study, by Whitney L. Bradley or The Canadian 1898 Christmas Map Stamp - A Definitive Plating Study, by Kenneth A. Kershaw
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 29, 2019 18:35:46 GMT
stanley64Thanks for your response - do not plate so I have an "empty plating library" ! René
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Nov 29, 2019 21:46:50 GMT
You guys would have died if you knew the opportunity i had offered to me.my personal friend has Ken Kershaw whole 1898 map stamp collection now and another gentleman's collection to..He wanted to drop it off at my house to scan everything and possibly help write another Map Stamp Book...Sorry, i have to have his name rename private.
My wife said NO..Did not what the responsibility of having such a huge collection laying around...Darn,,,haha
Robert
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 1, 2019 11:33:55 GMT
There is certainly enough variety with this issue to keep one occupied even with the Red Plates and Island markings alone.
For the printing, there were 4 black plates used and 2 for the red: Plate A w/black plates 1,2 & 3 & Plate B w/black plate 5. The islands from Plate B, which "appears to have been made with more care" (Tomlinson) are usually smaller and rounder than those from the earlier plate.
The excess inking that occurred with Plate A created a variety of differences between stamps which is visible as small red dots that can appear at random places and will differ from stamp to stamp.
There are constant and regular varieties though that can be identified as in this example with its Split Circle date cancel of 13 June, 1899.
Plate A Position 89, where island no. 3 is missing from the Pacific Island Grouping (P.I.G)
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Dec 1, 2019 17:57:29 GMT
stanley6 Here is a couple of Map Stamps in my collection..
Belleville Ontario...Jan.17/99...Nice Squared circle cancel 23 days after start of Postal usage.
Here is a cancel Dec. 2/98...2 days after release.
Robert
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 2, 2019 9:53:08 GMT
Here is another example of a known constant plate variety from Red Plate A. This one from position 97 with its extra island in the Indian Ocean Grouping (I.O.G)
The two examples posted earlier, show the linkage between the Red Plate and Black Plates used in production...
Plate 1A - Position 97
Plate 3A - Position 97 - now confirmed
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 7, 2019 7:46:11 GMT
To the day & 121 years after the date of issue, here are a few examples of the Red Plate varieties that can be found on the map stamp,
This example for Plate 5B - Position 28 showing the extra island due west & level with island no. 1 in the Pacific Island Grouping.
Red Plate 2A - Position 79 with its missing island no. 5 from the Pacific Island Grouping.
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stanley64
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What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 7, 2019 8:12:32 GMT
Here is another example of a plate variety from the map stamp; underneath the York Street roller cancel, this one from Plate 1A - Position 55 showing the remnants of the centre line cross mark in the upper-right hand corner, The centre cross occurred between stamp positions 45-46 / 55-56 on each sheet and were essentially guidelines used to assist in the stamp production process plate 1 (9 x 9 mm cross) and plate 2, 3 & 5 (4.5 x 4.5 mm cross).
Canada's Imperial Penny Postage tied with York Street, Toronto roller cancel 'No. 1' (Period 1, date of usage: 1894-1898 - Winmill)
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 19, 2019 11:11:41 GMT
Here is a recent find for Canada's Imperial Penny Postage, aka "the map stamp", the world's first Christmas stamp! This latest addition to the collection is from Plate 2A, Position 7.
  
This major re-entry is the first of a series in the seventh column from the second plate. This particular position and its re-entry clearly shows a strong line running through the phrase "WE HOLD A VASTER EMPIRE THAN HAS BEEN" and is clearly visible running though the "THAN HAS BEEN" portion about the half-way mark. Additionally, the re-entry includes several marks in both of the "2" value tablets and an extra line across the base of the stamp just under "XMAS 1898" among others. A notable distinction for this position and the red plate A which was used is that Cyprus appears lower than Malta in the Mediterranean region.
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Jan 4, 2020 0:50:14 GMT
stanley64...Your retouch in the middle of the left cable is not a stand alone stamp oddity. Your stamp below..
I am posting the same variety from one of my stamps with another one beside it.
Robert
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 6, 2020 8:35:21 GMT
Indeed Robert, the retouch for this stamp has been identified as being Plate 2A Position 99; more images of the same stamp can be found in an earlier post here.
What I do not see though is the same retouches on from the stamps you shared; note the fork in the cable line level with Australia or the retouched line the length of the left 2¢ value tablet from the original posting...
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Feb 1, 2020 18:17:46 GMT
Here is a cover, with its split-ring cancel was posted from somewhere in the state of Manitoba on 24 March 1899, that until recently I had noted the re-touch to the right-hand cabling, but never identified.
The Imperial Penny Postage stamp tied to the cover is from Plates 3-A, Position 90 as can be seen in the close-ups below,
Here in this close-up, one can see the extension of the cable join at the top of the frame and a doubling of the outer cable that ends with an extension into the margin level with the top of the letter 'E' in Postage.
The strengthening of the right-hand side of the cable for Plate 3 was required for entire row, i.e. stamps 10 thru 100. As with all the stamps in this final row, there is the tell-tale dot just outside the cable.
For this stamp and its position, Plate A or the red-inked portion, the islands 3 & 7 of the Pacific Island Group (P.I.G) are very close together and appear to almost touch.
Happy collecting!
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Post by jimjung on Feb 9, 2020 16:30:56 GMT
Very nice thread! I have a fair size collection but this is a Variety Collector's stamp, for sure. And there are many who have huge collections. I'd say I have a hundred or so. Here is a nice one I have on cover from 2A84 (Plate 2 Position A84). It shows a Misplaced Entry in the Top right portion of the design. You can also see a continuation of the frame in the UL corner and along the top margin area.  |
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Feb 10, 2020 11:00:12 GMT
What a great addition to the thread jimjung; this particular re-entry is not often seen and to have a copy on cover is bonus. Thanks for sharing! In addition to the black plate marks you have mentioned and as part of the Red Plate A, I catch a glimpse of an extra island above New Zealand which is indicative of this plate position...
Happy collecting!
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Post by jimjung on Feb 10, 2020 11:50:09 GMT
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Feb 29, 2020 16:52:26 GMT
Here is the latest find for the Map Stamp and its varieties; this one being a manual cable re-touch and attributed to Plate 2A, Position 79,
In addition to the manual cable cut illustrated below, the Red Plate A from this position has several anomalies including an extra island between Ascension & St. Helena off the coast of Africa and the India Ocean Group (I.O.G) with its heavily-inked islands that appear as one continuous blotch.
Here we see the links of the cable just below the left-hand value table and their manual retouch which is quite well done and was a delight to discover ;-)
The final bit on this stamp is the inclusion of the compass mark in the Gulf of Tonking, a remnant of the die-transfer process which Tomlinson states in his text, "the mere existence of these markings (compass arcs & dots) does not, of itself, make a stamp remarkable", but they can help in identifying plate numbers and specific positions for the astute...
Happy collecting!
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Feb 29, 2020 17:23:36 GMT
stanley64...Nice map stamp pictures. I have a few like yours with the line at the left of the stamp .
Robert
Also see the horizontal line just below your line.
Line goes right across the whole map stamp.  |
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Feb 29, 2020 17:35:34 GMT
Just for your interest.. Here is my earliest date on a map stamp....Dec.27.1898 {Issue date Dec.25.1898}
Robert
Now here is the earliest cancel of a map stamp on cover. He is a friend of mine and sent this picture..{wow..I am jealous}
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Feb 29, 2020 18:54:55 GMT
Just for your interest.. Here is my earliest date on a map stamp....Dec.27.1898 {Issue date Dec.25.1898}
Robert
Nice to see WERT, but any reference material I have seen lists the issue date for Canada's Imperial Penny Postage aka, The Map Stamp as 07 December 1898 in keeping with the cover you have shared. The other date often associated with this issue 25 December 1898, other than it being the world's first Christmas stamp, is the date heralding in the new postal rate and its reduction for the entire Commonwealth as illustrated in this cover, Source: Royal Philatelic Society London, R. W. T. Lees-Jones Collection – Canadabut I digress from what this thread is intended for i.e. "85/86 Map Stamp - Plate Varieties", perhaps one can find a more appropriate thread for the discussion... Happy collecting! |
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Feb 29, 2020 18:55:08 GMT
stanley64...Wish i had that cover...jealous. Very nice squared circle cancel.
Here is my earliest squared circle cancel on a Map stamp. Bellville Jan.17.1899, 3 weeks after issue.
Robert
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Feb 29, 2020 19:17:33 GMT
Here is my earliest squared circle cancel on a Map stamp. Bellville Jan.17.1899, 3 weeks after issue.
Robert Even if either there was a leap year involved, it is a total of 41 days between the date of issue and your cancel of 17 January, 1899 by my calculations:
From and including: Wednesday, 7 December 1898
To, but not including Tuesday, 17 January 1899
Result: 41 days
It is 41 days from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date. If we were to include 17 January, it would be 42 days. Or 1 month, 11 days; definitely not 3 weeks...
Happy collecting!
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Feb 29, 2020 21:19:47 GMT
What...41 days..??
stanley64...You are getting the cover date Dec.7.1898 and my single date Jan.17.1899 mixed up
ONE: The cover date is Dec.7.1898 to issue date Dec.25.1898.-{19 days before issue date} TWO: My single is from Dec.25.1898 to cancel of Jan.17.1899 - {24 days after issue date} Two separate dates.
Robert
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