brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Feb 29, 2020 21:44:25 GMT
This stamp has a problem in that the "first day of issue" is December 7, whereas the "OFFICIAL first day of use" is December 25.
But since they could be used prior to the "official" day, I'd say December 7 is THE first day. Unitrade values the December 7 cover at $2,500, and a cover dated Dewcembee 25 at $900.
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tomiseksj
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Post by tomiseksj on Feb 29, 2020 21:51:55 GMT
My Unitrade indicates that the "first day of issue" was December 7, 1898 and that the "Official First Day" was December 25, 1898.
I'm not sure how the two differ and would hope that someone here could enlighten me.
EDIT: Thanks, Peter.
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Feb 29, 2020 22:01:24 GMT
Never noticed that guys.
Well have to say my Jan.17.1899 is 24 days from "Official First Day" and not "First Day of Issue". Still trying to figure out when the official date was given to post offices as to the Official date..??
Robert
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watermark
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Post by watermark on Mar 1, 2020 2:34:46 GMT
This is the Major Re-entry from Plate 5, Position 91.  The key feature is the doubling in CANADA almost giving a 3-D affect to the letters.  Mike |
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Mar 1, 2020 5:11:14 GMT
Watermark
I have been looking for that re-entry for some time now, with no luck.
That is a great re-entry.
Robert
BTW, i called my friend tonight who owns major Map stamps to ask him about the two different dates.
Had to go out, but calling him tomorrow...I should have an answer hopefully.
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Mar 1, 2020 15:28:05 GMT
Ok guys..Got and answer from my friend who owns Ken Kershaw massive map stamp collection and added another colection which makes him the largest Map stamp collection/collector in the world...He once wanted to leave it at my house to re scan for him, but my wife saud no..Did not want to be responsible for damaged...Darn..haha
Ok, read the following and shake your head like i do every time he comes over or calls.
Robert
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Mar 1, 2020 15:39:41 GMT
Robin of Unitrade states the the December 6th cover was found to be a fake.
More fake news...
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Mar 2, 2020 18:12:20 GMT
Like a dog with two tails, tickled pink, happy as a lark, or whatever analogy you want to use, I was pleased to discover over the weekend that I did have a copy of the Map Stamp Plate 2A, Position 84,
This particular stamp is not your typical re-entry but instead is quite different in that the doubling occurs from a misplaced entry and is visible in the top margin and "OSTAGE" of "POSTAGE" in the form of dots and dashes.
The misplacement and resulting entries come from the centre of the stamp design as illustrated in the image below.
The hairline marks in the top margin are from parts of the coast of lower Europe, the Black Sea, and the Caspian Sea. The marks in "POSTAGE" are from the upper coast of Africa.
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Mar 6, 2020 9:00:02 GMT
My Unitrade indicates that the "first day of issue" was December 7, 1898 and that the "Official First Day" was December 25, 1898. I'm not sure how the two differ and would hope that someone here could enlighten me. EDIT: Thanks, Peter.
It is actually quite simple, the issue date of the Canada's Imperial Penny Postage is 07 December, 1898 as stated in Unitrade; whilst the official first day for the new-letter rate, one penny or 2¢ throughout the British Empire, is 25 December, 1898 as clearly illustrated in this cover's information tag from the R. W. T. Lees-Jones Collection – Canada (Royal Philatelic Society London)
Earlier mailings would have had to pay the then 3¢ as in this cover postmarked 23 December, 1898,
1898 Pre-Christmas Date 2¢ Map Use, 3c letter rate
It is unfortunate that the editors of the catalogue have made the entry for this issue unnecessarily confusing. I, and perhaps others, have written to them in effort to have them tidy-up their efforts as shared earlier in this post here. Perhaps in future editions of the Unitrade Specialized Catalogue of Canadian Stamps this can be rectified...
Happy collecting!
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Mar 6, 2020 16:09:32 GMT
Well guys
I was talking with my friend who has the largest Map Stamp collection (in the world)
And asked him what he thought was the official date of the Map stamps, and he suggested
Jan.1.1899...Wow, did not see that coming...Still up in the air..Right..??
Robert
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renden
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Post by renden on Mar 6, 2020 16:37:50 GMT
Robert ( WERT ), his suggestion is based on what ? René |
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Mar 6, 2020 17:12:48 GMT
Rene
When i talk to him, his expertise and depth of speech sometimes makes me shake my head, because he talks way..way..above the grasp of information he is talking about.
I will talk to him again soon..He is a very busy person, but i will try again.
Robert
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Mar 6, 2020 18:35:38 GMT
My Unitrade indicates that the "first day of issue" was December 7, 1898 and that the "Official First Day" was December 25, 1898. I'm not sure how the two differ and would hope that someone here could enlighten me. EDIT: Thanks, Peter.
It is actually quite simple, the issue date of the Canada's Imperial Penny Postage is 07 December, 1898 as stated in Unitrade; whilst the official first day for the new-letter rate, one penny or 2¢ throughout the British Empire, is 25 December, 1898 as clearly illustrated in this cover's information tag from the R. W. T. Lees-Jones Collection – Canada (Royal Philatelic Society London)
For all those following along, the dates and summary timeline i.e. 07 December, 1898 and 25 December, 1898 are the same dates cited in Chapter 1 Historical Data of Frederick Tomlisnon's text The Canadian Map Stamp of 1898 and has been referenced here on the board in several threads including this one.
It's funny, earlier in the week I thinking about references and sources: Primary, Secondary and Tertiary...
Happy collecting!
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Mar 6, 2020 18:38:01 GMT
Again, relying on information in the Unitrade catalog, on December 25, 1898, the 2 cent rate for 1/2 ounce letters to Great Britain and the British Empire/Commonwealth, Republic of Ireland, and West Indies went into effect. On January 1, 1899, the 2 cent rate (surface) for 1 ounce letters within Canada and to the USA went into effect.
My impression is that there are three First Days being associated with the stamp: First Day of Issue (12/07/1898), Official First Day (12/25/1898), and First Day of Surface Rate Change (01/01/1899).
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Mar 6, 2020 19:07:18 GMT
Agreed and the second one, Official First Day (12/25/1898) being the first official day of "Imperial Penny Postage"; thank you Mr. Mulock!
Now if only we could have this discussion and date line shared in the appropriate stamp catalogues...
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Mar 6, 2020 19:47:58 GMT
With this stamp having a Christmas theme, they probably released it on December 7th so people could mail cards with this stamp affixed to the envelope.
Possibly...
(1,999 and counting!)
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renden
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Post by renden on Mar 6, 2020 20:07:02 GMT
Pete, I believe Canada (even after 1867) did not know what they were doing and complicated matters with various paper types, etc. in certain issues, and we were not "independent" of the Crown for sure - probably too many people involved in this stamp, which I love
Does anyone own a cover with postmark Dec 28, 1898 ?
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Mar 15, 2020 18:34:12 GMT
Not a cover cancelled Dec 28, 1898, but instead a Map Stamp cover with the muddy-water variety of colouring and a RPO cancel; the stamp itself is from Plate 5B, Position 97,
Hamilton, Son & Co. advertising cover with "Harrisburg & Southampton M.C." dated 29 April, 1899
As with many re-entries typical of Plate 5, the left-hand side is clearly doubled or heavily blurred which easily can be seen in this stamp as well, especially in the tablet portion.
There is also noticeable re-work on the inside cable that extends up the side, a single line retouch across the entire length along the bottom and a heavy spur beneath the cent symbol.
Another plate variety or re-touch for the list...
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on May 7, 2020 10:26:28 GMT
There are several re-entries for Black Plate 5; in fact, Tomlinson in his text on Canada's Imperial Penny Postage or Map Stamp suggests at least forty-five (45) separate and distinguishable stamps. There are only two major re-entries of which Plate 5B Position 91 is likely the most recognizable as shared earlier by watermark .
The stamp shown here is one of the minor re-entries from Plate 5 and although not as bold as other re-entries, is still quite striking with it clear doubling of the cable at the top of both left and right corners along with the solid background to the "C" in "Canada".
Plate 5B - Position 5
For the printing of Black Plate 5, a second red plate was used Plate - "B". In this stamp, Plate 5B - Position 5 notable distinctions for the Red Plate include one of the islands in the Pacific Island Group have a satellite, i.e. island n.º 9 and island n.º 4 of the China Sea Group has a dot or projection immediately south.
One more piece of the puzzle that is the Imperial Penny Postage and another tick for the check-list...
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on May 7, 2020 10:33:59 GMT
Still working on plating this one, but for now it is quite a striking example,
Happy collecting!
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WERT
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Post by WERT on May 7, 2020 13:53:38 GMT
There are tons of oddities on the Canadian map stamp..Here are a few of mine.
Robert
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on May 7, 2020 14:58:27 GMT
Let's take a look at these Robert ( WERT); based on the images you shared, I would say you have the following:
1st row > Plate 2A - Position 98 2nd row > Plate 2A - Position 47 3rd row > Plate 1A - Position 2 in addition to the line you share, there should be a dot in the top-left margin for this position
5th row > Plate 2A - Position 47 - same stamp as the 2nd row?
7th row > Plate 2A - Position 95 8th row > a regular feature of all Map Stamps; constant dots outside the cable i.e. 1 dot opposite the "E" and one or two just slightly lower as shown.
With fuller images we can be more certain, but this is at least a start...
Happy plating!
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Jul 31, 2020 10:34:01 GMT
Seeing all the Plate 2A issues shared earlier by WERT , here is another one for the list; a true Gem of a stamp! Canada's Imperial Penny Postage Plate 2A - Position 100 with dot just outside cable below 'HAS'
Additionally one can note re-touches to the bottom and left-hand side cables, extra islands in the P.I.G. group between island 2 & 4, 3 & 7 and 9 & 10 ( 2¢ Imperial Penny Postage Red Plate Printings & Anomalies), but it is the visible arc that extends through the Gulf of Tong King that makes this impression stand out...
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 13, 2020 8:36:02 GMT
Earlier in the month René ( renden ) shared with me the article, "A New Map Stamp Plate Discovery" that appears in the current issue of The Canadian Philatelist; the journal of The Royal Philatelic Society of Canada ( RPSC) For the first 120 year history of the issue the thought was that Plates 1, 2 & 3 used Plate A and Plate 5 used Plate B for the printing of the red bits. Scott Robinson of flyspecker fame, has now shown that black Plate 2 was also used with Plate B creating quite the rarities. Quite the discovery for an stamp that is over a century old.
At the same time, I found an issue recently where the whole of South America, parts of Western Europe and Africa appears to be flooded in one of the plates used in the lavender/blue/green printings,
Canada's 2¢ Imperial Penny Postage (Scott n.º 86) - Plate Position : 2A50
Further review needs to be done, but it is encouraging to note that there are a couple of other positions that have distinct ocean ink marks that appear to be mostly constant. This would suggest that just as with the red printings which used two plates, it is likely the same for the lavender/blue/green printings of the seas and oceans as well.
It is encouraging and requires additional research...
Happy collecting!
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Post by jimjung on Nov 14, 2020 12:40:25 GMT
Plate 2 position 30 - this one has an arc at the left side. More than one position has this arc on Plate 2.   |
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 18, 2020 16:23:03 GMT
The 'Arc of Tonkin' is guaranteed to bring a smile to my face when I see it on this issue and here the arc is particularly strong :-)
Thanks for sharing @jimjing... Happy collecting! |
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 12, 2020 21:17:25 GMT
Not a cover cancelled Dec 28, 1898, but instead a Map Stamp cover with the muddy-water variety of colouring and a RPO cancel; the stamp itself is from Plate 5B, Position 97,
Vince stanley64I would appreciate your definition of "changeling" as compared to "sulphurization" (not oxydation) - for our membership (and me) Thanks - René |
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 13, 2020 11:34:15 GMT
For Canada's Imperial Penny Postage (aka The Map Stamp), the changelings with this issue René ( renden) are in fact - oxidation; like rust, i.e. the oxidation of metal.
Unlike other sulphuretted or sulphurized stamps that have been previously mentioned where the discolouration is at the ink's surface, here the blue/lavender ocean inks have actually had a chemical reaction with a metallic component in the ink used and something in the environment; now it is part of the overall structure and no amount of hydrogen peroxide will change or reverse that. It is interesting to note that of the four plates used in the printing of this issue, Plate 3 has the most examples or likelihood of this phenomena.
Happy collecting!
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 13, 2020 13:57:52 GMT
For Canada's Imperial Penny Postage (aka The Map Stamp), the changelings with this issue René ( renden ) are in fact - oxidation; like rust, i.e. the oxidation of metal.
Unlike other sulphuretted or sulphurized stamps that have been previously mentioned where the discolouration is at the ink's surface, here the blue/lavender ocean inks have actually had a chemical reaction with a metallic component in the ink used and something in the environment; now it is part of the overall structure and no amount of hydrogen peroxide will change or reverse that. Thanks Vince - I learned something and that explains why WERT did not want me to submit my 3 samples to HPeroxide 3%  René |
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 23, 2021 11:14:54 GMT
A BLUE-PLATE SPECIAL
Featuring Canada's 2¢ Imperial Penny Postage,
Plate Position : 2A50
Plate Position : 5B98
This stamp issue, the very first multi-coloured release, was printed using three different printing plates: black, red and lavender/blue.
Much has been written and documented about the re-entries found in the printings of the black and red plates, but very little has been noted about the lavender or blue plates used. Similar to the red printings though, the current literature does refer to the sea and oceans being printed using a number of electroplates.
For now, given that the red printings were done with two plates e.g. A & B, we can assume that a similar scenario was used for the printing of the oceans and seas in lavender or blue. The above two examples show a 'flooding' of the South American continent where the same position of stamp can also be found where this is not the case; hence, confirming that at least two different plates were used e.g. 1 & 2.
More to come, perhaps...
Happy collecting!
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