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Post by Perfs14 on Sept 21, 2014 4:43:12 GMT
In the old days when we used to use mostly hinges in albums paper quality was of prime importance, without a doubt. These days when we mostly use stamp mounts, the stamp does not actually come into contact with the paper, I wonder how significant, if at all, paper acidity/lignin etc. content really are.
Anyone know of an actual study done by someone somewhere/when?
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Sept 21, 2014 5:03:02 GMT
In the old days when we used to use mostly hinges in albums paper quality was of prime importance, without a doubt. These days when we mostly use stamp mounts, the stamp does not actually come into contact with the paper, I wonder how significant, if at all, paper acidity/lignin etc. content really are. Anyone know of an actual study done by someone somewhere/when? There are pages on the internet, useful from the US. GB www.amazon.com/The-Care-Preservation-Philatelic-Materials/dp/B000PG8RCCMy Xerox paper quotes 200 years.
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Post by Perfs14 on Sept 21, 2014 20:23:00 GMT
In the old days when we used to use mostly hinges in albums paper quality was of prime importance, without a doubt. These days when we mostly use stamp mounts, the stamp does not actually come into contact with the paper, I wonder how significant, if at all, paper acidity/lignin etc. content really are. Anyone know of an actual study done by someone somewhere/when? There are pages on the internet, useful from the US. GB www.amazon.com/The-Care-Preservation-Philatelic-Materials/dp/B000PG8RCCMy Xerox paper quotes 200 years. Thank you Rod looks very interesting I found a page showing some of its Bibliography - it looks very thorough to me, so it is probabbly a well written and referenced book.
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Post by Perfs14 on Sept 21, 2014 20:42:22 GMT
Since it was published by the APS in 1989, maybe a current member of APS can obtain a copy and do a review?
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Andy Pastuszak
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Sept 21, 2014 21:06:27 GMT
Acid Free paper is cheap. No reason not to use it. Split back mounts can still allow things into the mount through the split back. I would think the worst case would be a think yellow line where the split back is, if the paper you use is not acid free and has yellowed.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Sept 21, 2014 23:19:58 GMT
Perfs, I have the book, and it is so. The more you read on philatelic husbandry the more one can become obsessed, Some mounts have doubtful longevity. To keep things in perspective, I generally collect what my wallet dictates, mint lightly hinged to downright grungy. So I have reasonable quality paper mount when possible and keep in dust covers, Some collections I have demounted which look from the 1950's come up well, the paper just a hint of toning and the stamps still appear pristine.
Interested in the cotton paper mentioned by Andy.
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Andy Pastuszak
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Sept 22, 2014 14:24:56 GMT
Cotton is great stuff. Won't acidity, since it's not made from wood. Most legal documents from the 18th and 19th Century were always printed on 100% Cotton rag, since they knew it would last. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_paper
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Sept 23, 2014 7:47:06 GMT
Cotton is great stuff. Won't acidity, since it's not made from wood. Most legal documents from the 18th and 19th Century were always printed on 100% Cotton rag, since they knew it would last. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_paperAhem! cough cough. "100% Cotton paper may contain small amounts of acids, and should be tested or certified before use for archival documents."
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Andy Pastuszak
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Sept 23, 2014 13:11:15 GMT
Cotton is great stuff. Won't acidity, since it's not made from wood. Most legal documents from the 18th and 19th Century were always printed on 100% Cotton rag, since they knew it would last. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_paperAhem! cough cough. "100% Cotton paper may contain small amounts of acids, and should be tested or certified before use for archival documents." Well, that's downright annoying. I had an archivist from the National Archives tell me if it's 100% cotton it's considered archival quality. I wonder why acid is in there, since cotton is acid free.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Sept 23, 2014 23:31:53 GMT
Well, that's downright annoying. I had an archivist from the National Archives tell me if it's 100% cotton it's considered archival quality. I wonder why acid is in there, since cotton is acid free. Was surprising to me too, the above was quoted in your link to wiki. Do we believe wiki? Perhaps the process / bleaching during modern production?
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Andy Pastuszak
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Sept 24, 2014 0:19:15 GMT
Well, that's downright annoying. I had an archivist from the National Archives tell me if it's 100% cotton it's considered archival quality. I wonder why acid is in there, since cotton is acid free. Was surprising to me too, the above was quoted in your link to wiki. Do we believe wiki? Perhaps the process / bleaching during modern production? Or cross contamination from using the same machines to make wood pulp and cotton paper? This other Wikipedia article says: Conservation-grade — acid-free, buffered paper made from wood-based pulp. Archival-grade (also Museum-grade) — cotton rag paper made from cotton pulp. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-free_paper
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Post by Perfs14 on Sept 24, 2014 6:43:46 GMT
Acid Free paper is cheap. No reason not to use it. Split back mounts can still allow things into the mount through the split back. I would think the worst case would be a think yellow line where the split back is, if the paper you use is not acid free and has yellowed. I never use split-backs as, when I use them, there is a real risk of perf-damage (pun intended ). But, a friend of mine made a good point (Perfs12) - since one does not want the album to fall apart either, one should use archival paper regardless of mounts, which as rod222 points out may have a limited life.
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Post by TinMan on Nov 6, 2014 14:45:40 GMT
I wonder 50 years from now. What condition the stamps will be in that are placed in mounts now? I do use mounts for Old and Mint stamps but the rest of my used stamps get hinged.
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tomiseksj
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Post by tomiseksj on Nov 6, 2014 18:56:19 GMT
I can't comment on what they'll be like 50 years from now but stamps I placed in black Showgard mounts 36 years ago are showing no discernible signs of deterioration or damage.
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Andy Pastuszak
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 6, 2014 21:51:24 GMT
I would think the Crystal Mounts fiasco would have taught us all to be a lot more careful with what we're willing to put our stamps into.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Nov 7, 2014 9:02:00 GMT
I wonder 50 years from now. What condition the stamps will be in that are placed in mounts now? I do use mounts for Old and Mint stamps but the rest of my used stamps get hinged. You can experience this, by purchasing old albums. Some I have, the stamps are near pristine, albeit the hinge, others , in their death throws. I think it depends mainly on the conditions the albums are kept in, the humidity, constant mild conditions, whether slip cases have been used, and / or behind protective storage. Stamp mounts will not protect against poor husbandry.
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Post by TinMan on Nov 7, 2014 14:07:10 GMT
Andy or anyone else. The Crystal mounts were before my Collecting time. What were they? I just checked and I have a package of them. Also an old album I purchased not too long ago (the mounts came with the album) and a lot of the stamps mounted in that album are apparently mounted in Crystal mounts. I just checked and the stamps look OK. But I have a feeling I better get the stamps out of the Crystal mounts. Huh? The worst thing I have noticed about the clear (Crystal I assume mounts) is the stamps keep sliding out of them.
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Andy Pastuszak
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 12, 2014 2:50:02 GMT
Crystal mounts were crystal clear mounts sold by H E Harris. It was basically a long, flat tube with the ends open. There was a strip across the top that would wet to secure the mount to the page. You would slide your stamp into this long mount and then trim it to size. The mounts were sealed on the top and bottom and open on the sides. Over time, the adhesive strip would yellow the page. The mount itself would actually shrink and damage the stamp.
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Post by TinMan on Nov 12, 2014 11:06:01 GMT
I have noticed the adhesive strip have yellowed the pages just as you said Andy but the stamps look pristine. The only complaint I have is the stamps fall out of the mounts easy. I only have about ten strips left so I think I will go ahead and use them up if I put any more stamps in the album.
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Philatarium
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Post by Philatarium on Nov 12, 2014 18:36:17 GMT
I have noticed the adhesive strip have yellowed the pages just as you said Andy but the stamps look pristine. The only complaint I have is the stamps fall out of the mounts easy. I only have about ten strips left so I think I will go ahead and use them up if I put any more stamps in the album. Chuck, for what it's worth, and very respectfully, I would suggest throwing those Crystal Mounts away. My mother used them in the 1960's and 70's, and I've inherited her collections. I would say 60-70% of the stamps have been damaged. Either (1) by the adhesive strips on the top turning yellow and staining the stamps (kind of like the way cellophane tape does), or else (2) by the clear plastic mount shrinking, and causing the stamps to get wavy and wrinkled. Also, (3) the gum on the stamps often became kind of mottled opaque and rough. Any one of those three types of damage seems to be irreversible. I don't think it had anything to do with the atmospheric conditions of how the stamps or albums were housed, because the condition of her stamps varied from page to page in the same album. I think there were good batches and bad batches of the mounts. I haven't checked recently, but there used to be at least one dealer who sold Showguard 2nds who advertised in Linn's. I'll see if I can find that, if no one else chimes in first. Others here may know who has the best online prices for 1st-quality ones. (I happened to acquire a bunch in a supplies lot at auction a few years ago, so I haven't had to go shopping for them in a while.)
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Post by TinMan on Nov 12, 2014 18:47:20 GMT
Thanks I'll take your advice. I think I will do that. I don't want to take the chance. Would you leave the stamps already mounted alone. They seem to be ok. There is a whole album full. A couple thousand stamps
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Post by TinMan on Nov 12, 2014 18:49:45 GMT
I bought two albums a Harris and a Scott. The Harris is almost full the Scott was not and doesn't have any mounts in it all. All the stamps in the scott are hinged
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Nov 12, 2014 18:50:23 GMT
I'd confirm Dave's / Andy's suggestion, I have just taken ownership of old Bulgaria with these mounts, they have shrunk and damaged the perforation teeth, (bent them over) I think they will be salvageable with care, and remounting.
I hadn't been aware they were "Crystal Mounts", I had not seen these type before.
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Post by TinMan on Nov 12, 2014 18:51:33 GMT
Philatarium If I take the mounts out of the Harris album It will leave the residue from the mounts and unless I put them in Black mounts the glue will get on the stamps and or show through the mounts
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Post by TinMan on Nov 12, 2014 18:51:57 GMT
Like I said the Harris album is almost full. Since the Harris was almost full. I left it alone as his collection and I am making the Scott album My collection.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Nov 12, 2014 18:56:57 GMT
When I removed the Crystals from my Bulgaria pages, the adhesive strip stuck fast, and the plastic part ripped away, leaving a plastic glued strip in place. I printed fresh Steiner pages. You need to remove the stamp first before attempting removal of any Crystal mounts, if you decide on that route.
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Post by TinMan on Nov 12, 2014 19:03:30 GMT
Ok I threw the crystal mounts out now I'm waiting on some advice what to do with the stamps already mounted. I thought I had bookmarked the showguard seconds place but I am not finding it. I assume you all think I should take them all out of the Crystal mounts and put them in the good black mounts. Am I not correct? I found the web site. Philatarium and Steve. showgardseconds.com/Should I change them all out? I should be able to do it in a week or two.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Nov 12, 2014 19:16:01 GMT
Ok I threw the crystal mounts out now I'm waiting on some advice what to do with the stamps already mounted. I thought I had bookmarked the showguard seconds place but I am not finding it. I assume you all think I should take them all out of the Crystal mounts and put them in the good black mounts. Am I not correct? That would seem to be a major decision, only you can make. I'd appraise the collection for damage, if there is none immediately recognisable then work on one page to see if your intended route is workable and to your liking. See if the mounts come off easily, if not page reprinting, or new Harris pages are required, this is a big decision, one best tackled slowly, a page at a time. You may need to try black mounts or clear, see which ones you prefer, once a decision is made, you have to stick with it. If there is clearly no damage /staining /shrinkage, then perhaps leave for a while, use your new additions with pages using mounts of your choice and wait to see how you like the result, no need to rush into a decision you'll regret.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Nov 12, 2014 19:24:22 GMT
Dave, do you think "Showguard" is the most popular choice in US? I don't particularly like them and discarded mine, I prefer the "open at the top" Davo's. Comments?
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Post by TinMan on Nov 12, 2014 19:34:37 GMT
Personally I prefer the split backs. I have used both and the stamps fall out of the ones that open at the top. The stamps have never fallen out of the split backs. The one piece back I have are Hawid not Davo"s. But both Hawid not Davo open at the top and the back is one piece. I'm afraid the Crystal mounts will tear the pages when I try to take them out? I will try a page carefully and see what the results are.
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