cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
|
Post by cjd on Mar 25, 2015 5:13:17 GMT
Hong Kong has some sharp revenue stamps. Here is a KGV 20c to get the party started: This stamp is showing a traditional revenue cancel in the upper right. Please post your examples.
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on Mar 28, 2017 2:32:35 GMT
Here's a favourite of mine. Not so much for the revenue stamp but the 'cancellation'. This is a very attractive company cachet of Douglas Lapraik & Co., who owned a shipping line.
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on Apr 2, 2017 15:20:41 GMT
For many many years, Hong Kong revenue (fiscal) stamps were very much 'back of the book' curiosities for most collectors. Over more recent times, as with other countries, these have become ever more sought after. One influencing factor in the rise in popularity, has been the publication of the British Commonwealth Revenues catalogue by John Barefoot Ltd. Another factor, in my opinion, is the high quality printing and design of these issues. The scarcity factor is also a key to their popularity; some issue's denominations are as rare, if not more so, than many high valued regular postage definitives of the colony. There are numerous types of Hong Kong revenues: Stamp Duty, Bill of Exchange, Contract Note and Receipt etc. Many of the earlier Stamp Duty types from the reigns of Queen Victoria, Edward VII and George V, are quite stunning; and like collecting regular postal history, finding these on piece or on a complete document, is the ultimate aim for many. Generally, revenue stamps have survived far better condition wise, than regular postal definitives. This is undoubtedly due to the function they performed.They didn't undergo the rigours of the postal system but were generally attached to legal documents. These of course were filed away in cabinets for very long periods, rarely seeing the light of day. Consequently they weren't fiddled with by collectors. When eventually they appeared on the market, most ended up at the back of the album because they were not 'de rigueur'. The following gives an indication of the merits of such revenues: In October 2013, a very rare Hong Kong Revenue stamp sold for £4,901 (US$7,887) on eBay ($6,148 at today's exchange rate). The stamp is a KEVII 1903 wmk. Crown CC, P14. 1 cent 'Stamp Duty' revenue. It has no catalogue entry, as Barefoot records this as Proof status; with no used copies having been reported. If it were to be listed in the next edition, it would probably be assigned number 50. It was claimed by the eBay seller that this was actually the second one sold; the first being in 2002. This however must have slipped under the radar. Although it would be difficult to place this in a Commonwealth revenue league of 'highest price paid', this will be close to the top. A South Australian 1 penny revenue holds the all time sale record at $11,650 but this was for an 'inverted centre' variety and not a regular issue. At the very top of the stamp shown, is the distinctive bottom edge of the 'orange lozenge' 'embossed style' cancellation, in thick almost wax-like ink. Normally, a larger proportion of the lozenge is visible which gives the date the transaction was executed; the day, month, year each in a roundel shown in relief. For example: 15th January 1906:
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on Apr 8, 2017 0:46:40 GMT
Generally, revenue stamps have survived far better condition wise, than regular postal definitives. This is undoubtedly due to the function they performed.They didn't undergo the rigours of the postal system but were generally attached to legal documents. These of course were filed away in cabinets for very long periods, rarely seeing the light of day. Consequently they weren't fiddled with by collectors. Although not strictly speaking revenue stamps, these two pairs show regular postage stamps used for fiscal purposes. These are SG49 and 50 (Scott #62 and 63) from the 1891 (surcharge in Chinese characters) issue. The use of the characters 'PAID-ALL' around the bottom of the CDS, indicates such useage. Too often these are seen for sale, as having been postally used.
The other reason for showing these, is that they are fine examples of fiscal/revenue stamps being stored away on documents for many years. It is difficult to find postally used copies of these in 'as issued' condition. The $1 on 96c is very prone to fading when soaked, due to the use of fugitive purple ink for the stamp's design:
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 8, 2017 17:16:28 GMT
Anping , thank you very much for the note about fugitive purple ink on this issue (Hong Kong, Scott #56, I think). Scott makes no note about fugitive ink for this issue. The only note I could find in Scott referring to fugitive ink on HK Victorian issues is for Scott #47 and 47a, which are 30-cent gray green (1891) and yellow green (1882), respectively. The note states "No. 47 has fugitive ink. Both colours will turn dull green upon soaking."
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on Apr 8, 2017 19:12:44 GMT
The 30c gray (grey) green and its sister actually turn a yellow 'apple' green, as they don't like a bath at all. So you find that used copies are often mis-described as yellow-green. These two (and the 10c overprint versions of the parent stamps) are also affected by light. So even mint copies turn a yellowish green.
Another annoying 'changeling' effect is caused by toned gum. This is an optical illusion and again gives the impression that a mint stamp is a yellowish green, when it's a grey-green.
I don't have my reference books to hand, but some colours are doubly fugitive. This means that they react to both water and chemicals. Use of these inks was quite deliberate due to the frequent attempts to remove postmarks and re-use the stamps.
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 8, 2017 21:09:13 GMT
Sad to say, I don't have any Hong Kong revenues in my collection, so the best I can do is to post a photo from a recent issue of Linn's Stamp News (27-Mar-2017) which describes a major rarity, which has now presumably been sold at auction earlier this month. I see that it is originally a revenue stamp which was also used postally (HK, Scott #26, 1874), and then was overprinted and surcharged (HK, Scott #67, 1897). The rarity shown in the photo is HK, Scott #67b with Diagonal Chinese surcharge omitted, and it is valued at US $29,500 (!) in the Scott 2017 Classic Specialized Catalogue. It is undoubtedly a beautiful stamp, but one which I could never afford. This is as close as I will get!
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on Apr 8, 2017 21:24:00 GMT
That is a beautiful example; centred to perfection, which is very uncommon in itself. I think there is another variety of the overprint (possibly the diagonal overprint applied upside down). Sadly, I have only the normal copy.
I have seen some appallingly mis-perfed copies of the normal stamp, which is only amplified by the large format of these.
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on Apr 9, 2017 0:18:51 GMT
I actually found an image of a mis-perfed $1 on $2 copy in my very bloated reference folder:
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 9, 2017 0:31:28 GMT
I actually found an image of a mis-perfed $1 on $2 copy in my very bloated reference folder: Wow, you weren't kidding! That is pretty mis-perfed all right. Well, I need to start looking to see if I can find a nice copy of this stamp for my collection. Thanks for the inspiration. Now I know what to expect and what to look for. I will let you know what I can find!
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on Apr 18, 2017 0:08:07 GMT
I know nothing about this, as I have never seen one before. I spotted this on eBay about a month ago. It is an embossed 10 cent indicia, applied by the Stamp Office. Dated 17th December 1890, it has been prepared for use as a parcel ticket. What that is I don't rightly know. Looking at the partial name on the 'ticket', this may be Norddeutscher Lloyd; a cruise liner company. This may be one to refer to the Hong Kong Study Circle.
|
|
tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
|
Post by tomiseksj on Apr 18, 2017 19:22:17 GMT
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on Apr 18, 2017 19:59:23 GMT
Thank you for reminding me about this 'monograph'. I had seen it before when looking at the revenue adhesives but had totally ignored the embossed types (I didn't own one then).
So, my copy is a 27mm Format 'A' type (the words STAMP OFFICE in the upper segment). But, the outer circle decor, although resembling type 'a', appears different on mine. This however might be deceiving as the illustrating image is very small.
Regrettably, there is no explanation about the usage of these, particularly with reference to a 'parcel ticket'.
tomiseksj, I'm curious as to how you knew about the article.
|
|
tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
|
Post by tomiseksj on Apr 18, 2017 21:51:33 GMT
...But, the outer circle decor, although resembling type 'a', appears different on mine.... Regrettably, there is no explanation about the usage of these, particularly with reference to a 'parcel ticket'. tomiseksj, I'm curious as to how you knew about the article. Anping Here is a comparison of the monograph's example of design a and a negative image of yours for comparison -- I believe yours is design a. A Google search on "parcel ticket" and various other search terms (e.g., Hong Kong, seal, stamp, 1890, etc.) leads me to believe that it was purchased to book the carriage of parcels aboard trams, trains and/or ships. Lastly, Admin requires his moderators to be the fount of all knowledge. Seriously, your post led me to Google in search of an answer and that is how I came across the monograph.
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on Apr 18, 2017 22:12:47 GMT
A Google search on "parcel ticket" and various other search terms (e.g., Hong Kong, seal, stamp, 1890, etc.) leads me to believe that it was purchased to book the carriage of parcels aboard trams, trains and/or ships.Thanks for finding that and for your interpretation of the decor type. I'll accept this as a type 'a'. What I can't get my head around is the mechanism of a Stamp Office charge for booking carriage for parcels. Who did it, why was it necessary, why was there a charge etc. etc?
|
|
tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
|
Post by tomiseksj on Apr 18, 2017 22:51:17 GMT
I'm guessing here but I imagine it was for a similar reason as to why Stamp Office charges applied to land certificates -- for collection of revenue likely based upon the value of the transaction (ad valorem).
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on Apr 18, 2017 23:11:06 GMT
I can certainly understand land registration charges etc., but parcel tickets? There must be a more convoluted reason, oh fount of all knowledge.
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on May 2, 2017 21:32:23 GMT
May I ask the moderators to move this thread to 'Hong Kong' from its present category 'China', as it is awkward to find; and is quite simply in the wrong place. Ta very muchly!
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on May 2, 2017 21:47:26 GMT
Here is my latest acquisition that is loosely described as a 'revenue' issue; whereas 'postal/revenue' is more accurate in this case. This is an example of an 1874 SG F1 $2 that was authorised for postal use, due to there being no higher value than $1 postage stamps available. This one was used in the Treaty Port of Amoy.
Although centering is not great (fairly typical); it shows a bold 'as issued' colour, for this is, once again, a fugitive green. Perfs are 15½ x 15; watermark Crown CC:
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on May 2, 2017 22:11:50 GMT
Here is my latest acquisition that is loosely described as a 'revenue' issue; whereas 'postal/revenue' is more accurate in this case. This is an example of an 1874 SG F1 $2 that was authorised for postal use, due to there being no higher value than $1 postage stamps available. This one was used in the Treaty Port of Amoy.
Although centering is not great (fairly typical); it shows a bold 'as issued' colour, for this is, once again, a fugitive green. Perfs are 15½ x 15; watermark Crown CC:
Thanks for another great post, Anping, and congratulations on getting a nice copy of this stamp! You mention again about the fugitive ink, which leads me to ask, what is the best way to remove a stamp with such an ink from its paper backing, then, if you cannot safely soak it? In one of my old stamp books (1940s vintage), they talk about creating a "sweat box", using moisture, but not actually immersing the stamp. Is that still the way these things are done, or is there some better, perhaps less risky way open to us these days? Just curious....
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on May 2, 2017 22:41:53 GMT
You mention again about the fugitive ink, which leads me to ask, what is the best way to remove a stamp with such an ink from its paper backing, then, if you cannot safely soak it? In one of my old stamp books (1940s vintage), they talk about creating a "sweat box", using moisture, but not actually immersing the stamp. Is that still the way these things are done, or is there some better, perhaps less risky way open to us these days? Just curious.... This probably sounds a bit unusual, but I don't recall ever having soaked anything off piece that was worth more than a penny or two. Many HK collectors seem to avoid soaking anything that has a remnant of paper, as sometimes there is a part cancel or other marking which adds 'value' to it. If I was to give any advice, I would certainly try a sweat box. It is not something I have had cause to try so far, even though I have one of these - A very kind, fellow member of another forum sent me a brand new one from the States last year (we can't get them in the UK), at horrendous postal costs. So I'm rather looking forward to giving it a spin. One way to test it at little risk to your pocket, is to get hold of a decent QV 4 cent purple on red [remember it's doubly fugitive too] - (even if it hasn't got any backing paper; a hinge might be a bonus though) and just leave it in the sweat box and monitor it. If it emerges unscathed, you have your answer.
|
|
Anping
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
|
Post by Anping on May 2, 2017 22:56:51 GMT
Just found these notes from the guy who sent me one of these, which he posted well before I heard about the device:
|
|
tobben63
Member
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,874
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
|
Post by tobben63 on Jan 17, 2021 16:33:59 GMT
Does anyone know the size of the revenue Hong Kong stamps (in mm) I'm making album pages and need to know the size Not a revenue, but I need to know the size here to
|
|
darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,197
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
|
Post by darkormex on Jan 17, 2021 22:03:40 GMT
tobben63, I am thinking I can answer both of your questions and show off some Hong Kong revenues at the same time. The stamps below have been sitting in my "back of book" Hong Kong stock pages for a long time, unmounted and uncatalogued. If I remember correctly, this issue and the earlier Queen Victoria issue that you have posted above are the same size, 29mm x 34mm (that is based on perf tip to perf tip, not size of design). Additionally, the 30c value of the Peace issue below is 41.5mm x 31.5mm as measured from my collection.
|
|
tobben63
Member
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,874
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
|
Post by tobben63 on Jan 17, 2021 22:10:32 GMT
Thanks a lot. This is very helpful. Now i I can finish those pages.
|
|
doug534
Member
A new enthusiast leaning to pre-1957 Aden, New Zealand, Switzerland, great designers & engravers
Posts: 164
|
Post by doug534 on Aug 19, 2024 0:56:21 GMT
I found these Hong Kong Revenue Stamps in a glassine envelope in my dad's philatelic materials, loose with other stamps on paper. The 10- and 50-cent King George V stamps have "Bill of Exchange" overprint Type F, I believe, based on the monograph tomiseksj pointed to earlier in this thread. The two 20-cent KG VI stamps I still have to read about. I have no clue as to the current value of any of these. Are they better left on paper?
|
|
hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,886
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
|
Post by hdm1950 on Aug 19, 2024 5:20:51 GMT
I found these Hong Kong Revenue Stamps in a glassine envelope in my dad's philatelic materials, loose with other stamps on paper. The 10- and 50-cent King George V stamps have "Bill of Exchange" overprint Type F, I believe, based on the monograph tomiseksj pointed to earlier in this thread. The two 20-cent KG VI stamps I still have to read about. I have no clue as to the current value of any of these. Are they better left on paper? I have no idea on value but it will not be that much. If they were mine I would probably leave the .10 ones on the paper for the clear cancels. If you do not plan to keep them there is nothing to be gained by taking time to soak any of them off.
|
|