salentin
Member
collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,619
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Post by salentin on Jun 20, 2022 9:04:18 GMT
I like this one,issued July 3rd,2014. There maybe more german stamps,I am not aware of,where the design extends onto the selvage.
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salentin
Member
collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,619
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Post by salentin on Jun 21, 2022 13:26:12 GMT
Not the nicest cut,but my absolute favourite of a stamp with selvage. Issued 1856.
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Post by paul1 on Jun 21, 2022 17:26:37 GMT
hi - selvedge details can either be of simple attractive interest, or something that definitely increases the value of its stamp, so just a couple of pix to show an example of each. You would never remove the selvedge from these British George V definitives from 1934 -36 - far too much value in the printing data showing 'fractional controls' (Alex will put me right I'm sure if that's wrong;-)). The single French F0.40c. from 1964 was one of a pair in that year relating to Gallic church buildings, and very attractive it is - coloured in the French fashion (the stamp) - though whether there is a hidden meaning in the geometric design on the selvedge I've no idea. The pattern on the wing is described elsewhere as a 'diaper of overlapping semi-circular lines - a sort of Moresque or even Iznik design. I don't have any other modern French stamps with selvedge patterned like this, so it could be rare of common, but whatever it's an attractive geometric pattern. One of the saving graces of earlier blank selvedges is that collectors then, who used hinges, could attach the hinge to the wing, and not impair the stamp. What are the other numbers Alex - plate Nos. perhaps ??
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jun 21, 2022 17:37:19 GMT
Two types of selvedge on this French cinderella.
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brightonpete
Departed
Rest in Peace
On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jun 22, 2022 2:37:55 GMT
Didn't I say earlier that if the selvedge was blank, I'd rip it off? These Jersey arrived on Monday and I finally got around to mounting them this evening.
Why not leave it be, no one had folded them over.
Peter
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Post by gstamps on Jun 22, 2022 15:29:47 GMT
I keep the stamps in the stockbooks and I don't mind keeping some selvedges even if they don't provide information or added value. Revenue stamps from France / Scott J93- 97. The 0.20 fr stamp has a free space that separates the stamps from different paness on the sheet. I can't remember the word. Gutter?
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Post by paul1 on Jun 22, 2022 15:48:46 GMT
agree with you gstamps of keeping these French issues united with their selvedge - they are attractive - it's not as if the wings are simply blank white - or should that be blanc;-) I'm not expert at terminology, but have a feeling that in philately the gutter is the unperf or perf. space between stamps. The Other point about retaining margins/selvedge/wings is that it provides you with - in this case - two perfect perforated edges to the stamp.
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Post by gstamps on Jun 22, 2022 17:17:49 GMT
Thanks paul1 I found on the net an example of a sheet with 2 panels of 5 x 10 stamps separated by these white spaces On the old stamps the sheet contained 3 panels of 5 x 10 stamps and on the second row is marked a number that represents the last digit of the year in which they were issued. In the Yvert Tellier catalog, the pair of stamps with number space is called "Millesime" and has an added value
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,346
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 23, 2022 9:59:03 GMT
For collecting some Machins, the selvedge is important to identify the source since some values are used in multiple prestige bookinets.
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jun 23, 2022 12:14:48 GMT
Attractive selvedge on a used block of 4 from the Italy Women in Art series,issued in 2002.This shows the Young Velcra,taken from an Etruscan tomb.
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salentin
Member
collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,619
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Post by salentin on Jun 24, 2022 8:57:17 GMT
Selvage with imprint,issued Jan.1866.
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ameis33
Member
What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet
Posts: 505
What I collect: Poland and Italy Republic
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Post by ameis33 on Jun 28, 2022 19:53:32 GMT
I have shown the "quarters", the dots used to identify the position in the printing plate... They were in use in Italy around up the '70. For the same purpose, Poczta Polska use now a better way... (Sorry for the bad quality of the image)
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Post by paul1 on Jul 3, 2022 10:04:23 GMT
this one from the Phillipines must be near the top for artwork on the wings - I suppose it's possible that use of a printed circuit board is to assess sharpness and detail. This chess event was the Karpov v. Korchnoi meeting which Karpov won in 1978 in Baguio City. The design is effective - after all a castle and knight couldn't really mean much other than a chess tournament - but in some ways it comes across as plain and rather boring - perhaps that's what a lot of folk might say of chess.
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,721
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Aug 12, 2022 3:38:05 GMT
I'm going to cross-post a portion of a post I made on TSF's Liechtenstein board many years ago - these gigantic selvedge pieces certainly fit here as well as they do there. The above 1960 Europa stamp (Liechtenstein's first Europa stamp) was apparently a roaring success so they issued another design in 1961 in far higher quantity (over 5 million, more than 16 times as many as their first issue). I guess they also figured they could set a new world's record for the largest selvedge attached to a stamp. Look at this thing! Liechtenstein continued with their own Europa designs until 1966 when they finally started using variants of the common design in use throughout many European countries. I am a big fan of Liechtenstein stamps so I buy bulk lots far more often than I should. This thread gave me the incentive to sort through my latest find, a 200g box of mixed Liechtenstein. Here are another couple of stamps with huge selvedge pieces attached. I don't mind that so much, these stamps have 10 Franc face values and those aren't seen very often when you buy stamps by the pound. ha ha Ryan
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,721
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Aug 12, 2022 3:46:09 GMT
And one more cross-posted portion of an old post of mine here on TSF, in this case from the Laos board. Of all the oddball or unusual examples of stamp margins in my collection, I think this albino version must be my favourite of all. I have a set of imperforate stamps from 1971 that had a surprise in store for me - two of these stamps have albino impressions of the engraving along the margin of the stamp. You can see this along the side of the 50k issue and along the top of the 70k issue. I've included a high-res scan of a portion of the 70k stamp to better show what I'm talking about. A brief search on the internet shows that this is mentioned elsewhere but I wasn't able to find a reason behind doing it this way. Ryan
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,721
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Aug 12, 2022 5:13:14 GMT
I posted this example from my collection years ago in search of information - after pinging our resident selvedge expert, khj, he informed me that the proper term for this stamp on the right is "gutter snipe". The horizontal bars printed in the selvedge are used by the electric eye sensors in the perforation process - in this particular case, complete sheets were printed with 4 panes of stamps, then perforated with the assistance of the electric eye markings, and then cut into panes. On this stamp design, these horizontal electric eye markings also served as a line to guide the shearing process when cutting the sheets into panes, and in a perfect operation the cut line will run through the middle of the electric eye markings. In my example on the right, the cut line ended up being just about exactly in the middle of the perforations for the next pane of stamps - if looked at under a magnifier, you can see that the edge of the top perforations are straight cut, not tore as they would be if the stamps had been separated normally. That's just a matter of happenstance - sometimes the cut line falls short of the next row of perfs and you get a selvedge with full electric eye markings (as is barely the case on the left stamp) but no hint of the next row of perforations. In some cases, the cut misses the mark by so much that not only do you get a complete gutter but as an added bonus you get some of the next stamp. My example on the right looks just as though it's supposed to be produced that way with a complete perforated gutter as a margin, but it is in fact a production error. Not nearly as interesting as if it had contained a chunk of another stamp, but still it's nice to find something like that in my "stamps by the pound" type of purchasing - usually somebody else has already found the oddballs and snags them before I get to find them .... Ryan
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,461
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Post by khj on Aug 12, 2022 22:21:36 GMT
Wow, I had to do a search on my laptop and found my original notes for the conversation on a stamp forum far far away with a few other collectors back in 2009! That forum has since deleted the original forum content when it did a reboot. Not sure if that was the time you were talking about.
Back then, Mel had this impressive collection of Prexie gutter snipes (that was when the first experimental electric eye markings were introduced). Regrettably, I did not download those pics before that forum got wiped, and Mel had sadly already gone on to the great stamp vault in the sky.
However, if you do an internet image search for gutter snipe pairs, you will see plenty of eye candy! I think I've got a pane somewhere that has a complete gutter snipe along one edge, but as usual, don't remember where I put it.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,461
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Post by khj on Aug 12, 2022 22:39:21 GMT
It's interesting that in some other countries, gutter pairs/blocks are a normal part of the pane distribution. Still remember the first time I saw a collection of "traffic light" pairs! I had a collection of Australia gutter pairs, but the album is in storage right now. I should fish it out one day after my hand heals and take some pics/scans...
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stampsmurf
Member
Steve
Posts: 397
What I collect: Print related stamps, FDCs, maxicards and souvenir sheets etc. Anything Gutenberg related
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Post by stampsmurf on Sept 11, 2023 12:43:09 GMT
Two stamps from Israel with 'informational(?) selvedge'. Twin selvedge on this stamp - I might remove the very bottom, but then again I have not done so far and I have had this stamp for 2 or 3 years
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 4,872
What I collect: Cinderellas and some Ephemera from Great Britain, France and Israel plus a few beautiful bits from elsewhere !! Topical interests include Flags & Judaica, the latter with an emphasis on the Jewish National Fund.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Sept 11, 2023 14:15:53 GMT
stampsmurf........I am guessing collectors of Israel Stamps would cringe at the thought of their 'Tabs' being called selvedge !!!
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stampsmurf
Member
Steve
Posts: 397
What I collect: Print related stamps, FDCs, maxicards and souvenir sheets etc. Anything Gutenberg related
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Post by stampsmurf on Sept 11, 2023 16:02:34 GMT
As already mentioned elsewhere in this thread, selvedge in the form of tabs on Israeli stamps can make an enormous difference to the catalogue value.
this is why I referred to the tab as selvedge..... I now apologise to all concerned.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,461
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Post by khj on Sept 11, 2023 18:47:43 GMT
No harm, no foul. It's all part of the learning process. Normally, there is a token punishment of 2 lashes with a wet noodle, but we'll waive it this time for you.
It's nothing compared to when I see someone has written on the selvedge -- blasphemy!!! You have to whole freaking stamp to scribble notes on, leave the poor itty-bitty selvedge alone!!!
When there are 2 parts to the tab, they are referred to as "long tabs". The single tabs are "short tabs" or simply "tabs". This is terminology specific to Israeli stamps. For most other countries, they are typically referred to as, gasp, selvedge.
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,721
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Sept 12, 2023 8:17:20 GMT
When there are 2 parts to the tab, they are referred to as "long tabs". The single tabs are "short tabs" or simply "tabs". This is terminology specific to Israeli stamps. And you need to keep both parts of the tab for it to be considered complete - don't tear off the bottom bit! Unless you want to, I suppose, seeing as how it's your stamp ... Ryan
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,461
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Post by khj on Sept 12, 2023 12:59:09 GMT
It's the same way with selvedge collectors. I keep the long tabs together and also keep the stamp attached. However, I guess some other selvedge collectors might separate the stamp from the long tabs and discard the stamp. I'm fine with that, as long as the long tabs remain as attached setenants. To each, his/her own...
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Post by nick2302 on Sept 19, 2023 19:40:53 GMT
I always keep the selvedge on stamps when I mount. I always think what my kids or grandkids will think of the stamp. What would a dealer think if the stamp has its borders. As a result, it is necessary to keep the fancy but otherwise not really part of the collection. Many times, with US stamps they have a fancy border at that top. What I do I leave one stamp in the corner and mount the whole fancy selvedge. It is easy for me as I have blank pages and I can display the stamp to my liking. I seldom if ever use a stamp album aa they are so restrictive you can't have something you think you want or attracts your eye, and it won't go into a pre-printed album all that easy. I have been trying to upload a couple of pics but I have been stopped by the TSF need for username and password. If I ever figure what the window wants I will post some pics of items in one of my albums.
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,711
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Sept 19, 2023 20:25:35 GMT
I always keep the selvedge on stamps when I mount. I always think what my kids or grandkids will think of the stamp. What would a dealer think if the stamp has its borders. As a result, it is necessary to keep the fancy but otherwise not really part of the collection. Many times, with US stamps they have a fancy border at that top. What I do I leave one stamp in the corner and mount the whole fancy selvedge. It is easy for me as I have blank pages and I can display the stamp to my liking. I seldom if ever use a stamp album aa they are so restrictive you can't have something you think you want or attracts your eye, and it won't go into a pre-printed album all that easy. I have been trying to upload a couple of pics but I have been stopped by the TSF need for username and password. If I ever figure what the window wants I will post some pics of items in one of my albums. very simple....just log in......(forgot....well you should keep a record of your loggins to any Web site) Your e-mail is easy...just add your password if you remember - certain the TSF will send a note to your e-mail if you ask - Good luck - you will need to change your password - keep us posted René
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salmantino
Member
Posts: 266
What I collect: Specialised UK and overprints, Ireland, Netherlands, Spanish permanent stamps.
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Post by salmantino on Jan 24, 2024 20:32:23 GMT
Some stamps were printed by more than one single printer. The margin can tell which printer printed the stamp: Waterlow, not Harrison.
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