Anping
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What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
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Post by Anping on Jun 13, 2017 8:56:26 GMT
I don't know about others, but I find it useful to work with scans of watermarks, where I think there is evidence of a variety. I don't have any sophisticated 'Photoshop' type software, so I have tried a couple of different manual methods to find one that works reasonably successfully. No doubt there will be those that will take a dim view of this method, but I have had no adverse effects. It is quite a simple method, which only requires lighter fuel (Ronsonol in the US ?), or a watermark detection fluid; and a stamp mount. The mount should be one of those similar to the Leuchterm type, that can be bought in specific sizes or in strips that can be cut down. The main attribute of these mounts is that the fluid used remains trapped in the mount and only soaks into the stamp. Those black cardboard backed stock cards will not work. The method: Insert stamp face side down in the mount.
Lift the clear strip.
Squirt fluid over stamp quite liberally and working quite quickly, express as many air bubbles as possible.
Lay mount on scanner, ensuring the black backing is at the top facing you. Or if using clear-backed mounts, ensure you lay a black card over it.
Close scanner lid and apply a bit of pressure to the lid with your fingers (or a heavy book).
Then scan. Here is an image of the strip I used for this method, with the stamp in position, showing some of the air bubbles before I applied pressure: Here is the cropped image of the stamp, which shows a reversed Crown over CC watermark: Using this method is not the be all and end all of watermark detection; certain watermarks, paper thicknesses and coloured papers will still present the usual difficulties.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jun 13, 2017 14:18:54 GMT
Thanks for this post, Anping. I will have to give this method a try at some point.
I like the idea that it gives you some documented evidence of the finding for the stamp which can be kept for future reference.
Thanks again!
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Anping
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Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
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Post by Anping on Jun 13, 2017 14:25:09 GMT
It may also be of use to online sellers; at least those that can be bothered to show an image of a watermark when there is more than one possible.
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tomiseksj
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Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
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What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Jun 13, 2017 15:00:14 GMT
Is it safe to assume that you determine the stamp has a watermark before you scan? I've photographed watermarks in a tray with Ronsonol before but then had to transfer the images to my computer. Like Chris, I'll have to give this a try the next time I want documentation as it eliminates the need to get out the camera, ensure the proper focus, transfer the image, etc.
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Anping
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Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
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Post by Anping on Jun 13, 2017 15:29:05 GMT
Is it safe to assume that you determine the stamp has a watermark before you scan? Generally yes; but not always. It is much easier for me as my collecting interest is so narrowly focussed, in that I know the permutations of watermarks I might find. But there is a 1976 QEII stamp issue (6 values) which does not have a watermark. Although I have yet to try my own method on these, this may prove to be an invaluable test. The top value ($20) has a SG catalogue value of £160, compared to the previous 1975 watermarked version; listed at £9. The former is notoriously difficult to properly identify and consequently is too often misdescribed. The use of scanning with the 'wet method' may just provide a more accurate method than fiddling around with a watermark tray and camera. As for coloured papers etc., I might attempt a modification of the method, by using colour filters (I bought a small photographic flashgun pack from China); underlaying the stamp mount just before scanning. Hope you follow my drift!
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angore
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 13, 2017 23:16:35 GMT
I have only used the wet scanning method to find a watermark that is hard to tell if it is watermarked. I have only tried a couple toughies and had success with one and no luck with another. Between the cancellation and other stamp conditions, I am not skilled enough to see spot them.
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tomiseksj
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Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Jun 14, 2017 0:02:26 GMT
...As for coloured papers etc., I might attempt a modification of the method, by using colour filters (I bought a small photographic flashgun pack from China); underlaying the stamp mount just before scanning. Hope you follow my drift! I'll be interested to learn what results you had with the filters.
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firstfrog2013
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jun 14, 2017 3:26:52 GMT
Watermarks are sometimes not visible with the fluid but appear with plain water.I'm not sure about lighter fluid getting on the scanner plate is damage possible?
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Anping
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Post by Anping on Jun 14, 2017 7:23:38 GMT
No FF; well not with lighter fuel anyway, as it evaporates (might even give the scanner plate a nice clean too). But I've not tried detection fluid. I agree about water; but not on mint stamps obviously.
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Jerry B
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Marietta, Georgia USA
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Post by Jerry B on Jun 14, 2017 12:23:15 GMT
Hi Anping
Have you tried using some type of contrast enhancing, or whatever, to make the watermark stand out? I wonder how Scott scanned watermarks for their catalogs.
In general a nice method to scan watermarks.
Jerry B
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Anping
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Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
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Post by Anping on Jun 14, 2017 13:00:55 GMT
Jerry, I have tried a few different contrast/hue/saturation level settings, either using a package called PhotoFiltre7 (graphics tool) or my professional version of Vuescan. I've even tried Retroreveal. None of these offer any significant benefit. I'm sure I was reading a thread on TSF about settings that can lift a watermark using one of the photo software packages (it may well have involved Falschung). I can't justify buying something like this though, as they are pricey.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 14:37:41 GMT
Yes. you can use a scanner to bring out watermarks or remove postmarks from stamps but there are some costly requirements. 1. A scanner that can do film negatives like the Epson Perfection V350 or my personal choice, the Canon 9000f MkII A section of the lid comes off so the scan goes through the stamp instead of just the surface. 2. Software that can process in CMYK mode as opposed to RGB as well as being able to do Channel adjustments. Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro are the choices. Maybe there are others like Gimp? The results can be quite dramatic.
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angore
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 14, 2017 15:11:26 GMT
Here is one I had scanned and played with various settings (color channels, etc) to locate the watermark. This shows the challenges with the gum issues, the impression of the image from the front, etc.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jun 14, 2017 23:34:29 GMT
Al ( angore), what are we looking at with this image? Are you able to overlay some markings to point out the watermark or other features? Thanks, Chris
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Anping
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Posts: 533
What I collect: Hong Kong, Aden & States & odd stuff I like.
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Post by Anping on Jun 15, 2017 0:38:39 GMT
Trying to detect watermarks on used stamps that have rather unhealthy looking gum sides (I'm assuming that is what we have in Angore's picture), is a recipe for failure. A case in point actually happened yesterday on Stampboards, where the opening poster showed an image of a Hong Kong QV adhesive caked in crud on the back. He thought he had a reversed CA watermark.
After 'strong' advice to soak and clean it, he posted back with his laundry and found he actually had a normal CA watermark. This wasn't the first instance of optical illusion caused by foreign matter adhering to gum side that I've seen either.
No detection method is likely to work successfully in these instances. Even hinge remainders will interfere. Remember, a watermark is merely a thinning or change of density of the paper when applied by a dandy roller (or press). Old gum, dirt and hinge remainders interfere with that watermark impression.
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Post by PostmasterGS on Jun 15, 2017 22:51:35 GMT
For the technique mentioned by @falshung , see here.
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