|
Post by feebletodix on Jun 11, 2018 15:05:50 GMT
Early Austrian Perforation Variety Tables1863 1863
|
| | | | | | perforations | wmk | values | | | | |
|
| 2 | 3 | 5 | 10 | 15 | 14 | | | | | |
| 9½ | | | | | |
| 10½ | y | | | | | | 11½ | y | | | | | | 13 | y | | | | | | 13½ | y | | | | | | imperforate | y | | | n/a | n/a | n/a |
1867 Coarse Print 1867 Course | | | | | | | | perfs | values |
| | | | | |
| 2 | 3 | 5 | 10 | 15 | 25 | 50 | 9½ |
| | | | | | n/a
| 12 | n/a
| n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | Row 5 column 8 |
1874 Fine Print 1874 Fine |
| | | | | | | perfs | values | | | | | | |
| 2 | 3 | 5 | 10 | 15 | 25 | 50 | 9½ | | | | | | | | 9 | | | | | | n/a | n/a | 10½
| | | | | | n/a | n/a | 12 | | | | | | n/a | | 13 | | | | | | n/a | | 9x10½
| | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 9x12
| n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 9x13
| | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 10½x9
| | | | | | n/a | n/a | 10½x12
| | | | | n/a | n/a | | 10½x13
| | n/a | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 12x10½
| n/a | n/a | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 12x13 | n/a | n/a | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 13x10½
| n/a | n/a | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 13x12
| n/a | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a |
more to follow later...
|
|
blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
|
Post by blaamand on Jun 11, 2018 17:44:08 GMT
Wow, I would be very interested in such an overview. I'm a bit uncertain on how to read your tables tough. Does a blank field (not with 'n/a') indicate that the given value exist in the given perforation variety? Are these tables based on Michel Spezial or the Netto katalog - or any other reference? I'm curious to see what follows, particularly for the later Frank Joseph definitves - excellent info to have before I'll start making my custom pages. Thanks for sharing feebletodix
|
|
|
Post by doug630 on Jun 11, 2018 17:57:59 GMT
blaamand, I have a 1997 Michel-Spezial for Austria - will be glad to make images of pages for you - one of the beauties of being retired. Also see my eBay #283001496114.
|
|
blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
|
Post by blaamand on Jun 11, 2018 20:34:21 GMT
blaamand, I have a 1997 Michel-Spezial for Austria - will be glad to make images of pages for you - one of the beauties of being retired. - that would be absolutely wonderful!! I have Michel - but not the Spezial edition. Unfortunately the standard Michel does not include overview of which value comes with which perforation, so until now I have been 'in the woods'. My main interest for Austria would be the classics issued before the 1908. This is a truly generous offer and I would naturally reply with a very big thank you Hmmm - I do not get any hits at ebay.com - maybe it is only available from US? Jon
|
|
|
Post by doug630 on Jun 12, 2018 6:00:51 GMT
283001496114 pops up immediately for me, using the search-box at the top of most eBay pages. Here's the title: v277 | Five Older Austria Covers with interesting markings, inc. 1933 WIPA card. Don't use # in the search-box, just the 12 digits.
There's yet another way to do this. Again, if you're in the US, I'll just send you the catalog and you copy what you need. Keep it a month, I don't think I've looked in it for 2 or 3 years. Would cost you less than $3 to send it back Media Mail. The catch is that you can probably get a much newer copy via Library Loan.
|
|
|
Post by feebletodix on Jun 12, 2018 6:26:17 GMT
1883 with reprints until 1890 1883 |
| | | | | | perfs | values |
| | | | |
| 2 | 3 | 5 | 10 | 20 | 50 | 9½
| | | | | | | 10 | | | | | | | 9 | | | | | | n/a | 10½
| | | | | | n/a | 11½
| | | | | n/a | n/a | 12 | | | | | n/a | n/a | 12½
| | | | | n/a | n/a | 9¼
| n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 9x10½
| | | | | n/a | n/a | 10½x9
| | | | | n/a | n/a | 10½x11½
| n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a |
|
|
|
Post by feebletodix on Jun 12, 2018 6:56:18 GMT
1890 1890 |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | perfs | values |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 10 | 12 | 15 | 20 | 24 | 30 | 50 | 1g | 2g | 10 |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | 9½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | 13x12½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | 13x13½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | 9¾ |
| | | | | | | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 10½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | 11 |
| | | | | | | | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 11½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | 12 |
| | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | | n/a | 12½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | 13 |
| | | | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | | n/a | | | 13½
|
| | | | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 9¼
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | 9¼x10½
| | n/a | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 9¼x11½
| | | | | n/a | | | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 9¼x12½
| n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 9¾x10½
| | n/a | | | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a
| n/a | n/a | 9¾x11
| n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 9¾x11½
| | n/a | n/a | n/a |
| | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 10½x9¼
| n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 10½x9¾
| n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 10½x11
| n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 10½x11½
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | 10½x12½
| | | | | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 10½x13½
| | | | | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 11x9¾
| n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 11x10½
| n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 11x11½
| | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 11x13
| n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | 11½x9¼
| n/a | n/a | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 11½x9¾
| n/a
|
|
| | n/a
| n/a
|
|
| | | n/a | n/a | n/a
| 11½x10½
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | 11½x11
| | n/a | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 11½x12½
| n/a | n/a | | | | n/a | | | | | n/a | | | 11½x13½
| n/a | | | | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 12x12½
| n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | 12x13 | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | 12½x10½
| | | | | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 12½x11½
| n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a
| | n/a | 12½x13½
| n/a | | | | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 13x9¼
| n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 13x10½
| n/a | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 13x11 | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | | 13x11½
| n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | 13x12
| n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | | 13½x10½
| | | | | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 13½x11½
| n/a | | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 13½x12½
| | | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
|
|
blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
|
Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2018 9:00:10 GMT
thanks Doug, still can't find your lot on ebay.com or ekay.co.uk... Regarding Michel Spezial - On second thought I found there's a even better solution - simply purchasing it myself. So, I did just that this morning, found a old version at a very decent price: Michel Spezial on eBay at good priceThank you very much for your kind offer, anyway. Jon
|
|
blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
|
Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2018 9:21:39 GMT
feebletodix - Very detailed tables, that's a lot of different perforations - and a lot of work preparing them. Very useful, thanks for sharing What is your source for these varieties - any catalog or your own findings? I think I read somewhere that due to different humidity off the paper when these stamps were being perforated, the sheets later shrinked at various degrees, giving the impression that it was a multitude of different perforation pins being used, whilst in reality it was not that many different. I cannot remember the source of this info tough or if it is actually the case. Can anyone elaborate on this? Looking at your latest table with about 50 different perforation varieties, it might seem useful to group them - example given 9.25 x 11.5 and 9.75 x 11.5 could potentially both been produced by pins at a 'nominal' 9.5 x 11.5, but appears slightly different (due to the shrinkage of paper issue as mentioned). Keep up your good work!
|
|
blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
|
Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2018 10:25:48 GMT
...and the seller replied within one hour after the purchase: "Hallo Herr, vielen Dank für Ihren Einkauf. Wir haben Ihre Zahlung per Paypal erhalten. Ihr Artikel wird an folgende Adresse verschickt..." Now, that's a brilliant example of German efficiency - the book was shipped within the hour!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 12:38:35 GMT
1883 |
|
|
|
|
|
| perfs | values |
|
|
|
|
|
| 2 | 3 | 5 | 10 | 20 | 50 | 9½
|
|
|
|
|
|
| 10 |
|
|
|
|
|
| 9 |
|
|
|
|
| n/a |
The charts provide a starting point for these issues (images or pdfs would be more useful instead of an html web copy)
However, these stamps were perfed in harrow, comb and line methods. These are most useful in determining exactly which perf series they are They are also found with sharp and blunt perfs due to some perfing methods being hand done. To compound that, they were printed on 3 types of paper. Some of the perfs are on all 3 types.
The period usage is another important factor as although they might be used after that period, any with cancels that pre-date the period usage are obvious fakes.
The most complete and useful book for someone who really wants to get into these is the Pfalz/Richter. It can be found at Philabooks - a very comprehensive inventory of Euro catalogs. Although limited to a specific period of issues, it goes well beyond the Ferchenbauer. ANK (Netto) or Michel Special that I have.
With this hobby, specialization can get very complicated.
|
|
|
Post by doug630 on Jun 12, 2018 15:04:06 GMT
I am amazed; after nearly 50 years, I could still read the reply from the German bookseller. I must say, four languages did not help me much in my career. And in a century, the entire global population will speak English.
|
|
blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
|
Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2018 20:38:28 GMT
@nl1947 - that's interesting!! Is that book from Pfalz/Richter only a study of different perforations?? Starting to get a bit complicated - all those different perforation varieties across different paper types across different varnish stripes across different design ...this can be a life-time project in itself! Did I say I also try to collect the different stamps of the Austrian Empire as 'forerunner collections', postmarked in each of the pre-desessor countries - Czekia, Slovakia, Poland, Italy, Croatia etc etc?? Now imagine someone trying to complete all the possible varieties for all the different forerunner collections....would need to be re-born 10 times to achieve that I think I need to avoid digging myself too deep into these possible varieties, or I will never re-emerge
|
|
|
Post by feebletodix on Jun 13, 2018 7:21:07 GMT
Well now, the main source for the compound perfs was a volume by Dr Ferchenbauer I was lent in order to sort out my debris. If you have not found it this webpage is usefull www.stamp-collecting-world.com/austrianempire_arms.htmlThe n/a does as you intuit mean not available. I do not understand Austrian so I cannot comment on the good Dr's comments on the source of the variety of perforations. The order of the perfs is as far as I can make out, that of the date of issue. My tables are in a FileMaker database and spreadsheets, hence the fact I am having to copy these long hand. Feels like being back in the eighties and with floppy disks. 1891 |
| | | | | | perfs | values |
| | | | |
| 20 | 24 | 30 | 50 | 1g | 2g | 10 |
| | | | n/a | n/a | 11 |
| | | | n/a | n/a | 13½
|
| | | | n/a | n/a | 10½
|
| | | | | | 11½
|
| | | | | | 12½
|
| | | | | | 9¼
| n/a
| n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 13½
|
| | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 9¼x11½
| n/a
| | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 9¼x12½
| n/a
| | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 10½x9¼
| n/a
| n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 10½x11½
|
| n/a | | | | | 10½x12½ | | | | | | | 10½x13½
|
| | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 11x11½
| n/a
| n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | 11½x9¼
|
| n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 11½x10½
|
| | | n/a | | | 11½x11
|
| | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 12½x10½
|
|
|
|
|
| n/a
| 12½x13½
|
|
|
| n/a
| n/a
| n/a
| 13½x10½
|
|
|
| n/a
| n/a
| n/a
| 13½x11½
|
| n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a |
|
|
scb
Member
Inactive
Now at 100,000+ worldwide stamps, and progressing one stamp at a time towards the 200K
Posts: 313
|
Post by scb on Jun 13, 2018 8:14:03 GMT
Isn't that the purpose of it all feebletodix - great stuff (please keep it coming) -k-
|
|
|
Post by feebletodix on Jun 14, 2018 6:44:01 GMT
1899 1899 |
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | perfs | values |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 6 | 10 | 20 | 25 | 30 | 40 | 50 | 60 | 1K | 2K | 4k | 13x12½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
|
| 10½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 12½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
|
|
| 10½x12½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
|
|
| 13x13½
| | | | | | | | | | | | | n/a | n/a | n/a | 12½x10½
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
1901 with varnish bars 1901 |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | perfs | values |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
| 1 | 2 | 2 | 5 | 6 | 10 | 20 | 25 | 30 | 35 | 40 | 50 | 60 | 13x13½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | 9¼ | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 10½ |
| n/a | | | n/a | | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | 12½x10½ |
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
1904 1904 |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
| | perfs | values |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| |
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 6 | 10 | 20 | 25 | 30 | 35 | 40 | 50 | 60 | 72 | 13x12½
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | n/a | 13x13½ |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
|
|
|
Post by feebletodix on Jun 14, 2018 6:54:07 GMT
That's all folks, hope you find it of use. If anyone wants this data as an excel spreadsheet send me a message with your email.
|
|
blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
|
Post by blaamand on Jun 14, 2018 14:01:36 GMT
I for one certainly would, thanks a bunch Jon
|
|
tobben63
Member
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,874
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
|
Post by tobben63 on Jul 17, 2018 2:52:53 GMT
thanks Doug, still can't find your lot on ebay.com or ekay.co.uk... Regarding Michel Spezial - On second thought I found there's a even better solution - simply purchasing it myself. So, I did just that this morning, found a old version at a very decent price: Michel Spezial on eBay at good priceThank you very much for your kind offer, anyway. Jon 😁👍 I bought one to. Thanks for the link.
|
|
blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
|
Post by blaamand on Jul 17, 2018 5:52:05 GMT
Excellent tobben. I received mine promptly, and it is a fanatic catalog 😀
|
|
karelm
**Member**
Posts: 19
What I collect: Austria Empire varieties & cancellations
|
Post by karelm on Feb 11, 2021 9:58:46 GMT
That's all folks, hope you find it of use. If anyone wants this data as an excel spreadsheet send me a message with your email. Hi, hope it is not to late but I have only recently joined the forum and have done excel perf tables for the issues post 1890 and I'd like to compare mine with yours to see if I have missed something. My email is karel.michielsen@gmail.com
|
|
philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,654
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
|
Post by philatelia on Feb 11, 2021 10:15:32 GMT
I also collect Austria and am just beginning to study these issues. I cut back several collections, but I couldn't part with Austria! The early issues are fascinating - varnish bars, perfs, papers - fun stuff!
|
|
stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
|
Post by stainlessb on Nov 30, 2023 16:52:07 GMT
I am posting herer because I'm currently working on perforation varieties. Michel 60 H (I am using Michel Spezial 1995) 11-1/2 color listed as " violett bis lila/scwarze" ( violet to purple/black) but no color vaiant... I come across this this morning- seems quite a 'range" could one be a changeling? Looking at my Michel color key, no real match (violett no lilaschwarz) both of these would fall somewhere within
|
|
rod222
Member
Posts: 11,043
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
Member is Online
|
Post by rod222 on Nov 30, 2023 19:44:35 GMT
I am posting herer because I'm currently working on perforation varieties. Michel 60 H (I am using Michel Spezial 1995) 11-1/2 color listed as " violett bis lila/scwarze" ( violet to purple/black) but no color vaiant... I come across this this morning- seems quite a 'range" could one be a changeling? Looking at my Michel color key, no real match (violett no lilaschwarz) both of these would fall somewhere within I do not have this stamp in my collection (Sc#61 A12 50kr Violet 1890) so rest is just speculation. The only colour changelings I have in my database, violet to.... are the following. Based on that, the right hand example is your genuine stamp colour Happy to be corrected.
|
|
stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
|
Post by stainlessb on Nov 30, 2023 20:01:07 GMT
you may be right. I have several other 50 Kreuzer stamps (different perforation) and they all lean toward the 'lilac" shade. The 15 JKreuzer (same series) is a similar color. I'll have to watch for any other changelings as I go through these.
|
|
rod222
Member
Posts: 11,043
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
Member is Online
|
Post by rod222 on Nov 30, 2023 20:17:19 GMT
Throughout my collecting history, Violet to Lilac shades have always troubled me. I never feel confident around shades of those colours
|
|
|
Post by Statesman Stamper on Nov 30, 2023 20:50:05 GMT
I just did a quick check of my catalogues (Michel 2021, ANK 2017/18, Ferchenbauer 1990) and see no mention of shades for this series. I even checked my older Gibbons Austria and Hungary, still nothing.
Without more info, I'd vote changeling.
Dale
|
|
stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
|
Post by stainlessb on Nov 30, 2023 21:42:07 GMT
Here is another, same perforation 11-1/2. Notice the blue coloration begginning to appear.
|
|
|
Post by Statesman Stamper on Dec 1, 2023 20:14:36 GMT
I just did a quick check of my catalogues (Michel 2021, ANK 2017/18, Ferchenbauer 1990) and see no mention of shades for this series. I even checked my older Gibbons Austria and Hungary, still nothing.
Without more info, I'd vote changeling.
Dale
And with a little more time to dig deeper, it seems there may indeed be some shades for this series, including the 50 Kr value. I found a couple references to bluish-purple/blue-violet and red-violet.
My German is non-existent/Google Translate, so I am probably missing out on a lot of info in these resources.
Dale
|
|
stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
|
Post by stainlessb on Dec 1, 2023 21:12:48 GMT
excellent find Statesman Stampertoo bad the 2nd link only allows one page at a time download... I have Mueller 1952 special catalogue and he makes no mention of color shades. Makes me wonder id light sensitive, ar just unstable ink.Be interesting to find an early Michel or other catalogue and see if there was an initial listing later withdrawn? I don't possess any early WW catalogues
|
|