gc
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Post by gc on Jul 16, 2020 8:09:08 GMT
Hi all I thought I start a new thread ( continuing on from what DK had suggested ) on New Zealand Chalon Re Entries. The New Zealand Chalon plate consisted of 240 impressions laid down in 20 rows of 12 columns. A transfer roller was used place the impressions on the printing plate. However on occasions during this process some impressions so poorly laid down, they had to be erased and laid again. The original printing plates ( now housed in the New Zealand Post Archive at the MUSEUM of NEW ZEALAND TE PAPA TONGAREWA, Wellington ) show some impressions were punched through from the back, and burnished off, before the transfer roller applied the new impression. Below are examples of the 1d from Row 14, No 12 Noted by a faulty impression 0.8mm to the left and 0.3mm high, with doubling of the upper frame line in the gutter and the lower frame line. There are also traces of doubling of the left frame line in the gutter, a thin frame line running through the letters ONE PENNY, doubling of parts of the letters of NEW ZEALAND, POSTAGE and ONE PENNY, the hairline at right, the right eye and cheek, and the ribbon. The first image is a Richardson printing on thick horizontal mesh paper, with no watermark. The second is a Davies printing perf 12.5 on star watermarked paper. The third is also a Davies printing perf 12.5 on star watermarked paper.
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DK
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Post by DK on Jul 16, 2020 10:32:20 GMT
Lovely examples of that re-entry Grant. Nice to follow the progression of wear thru' time. Looking forward to this story being told by you and being added to by others. I have a few as well and will pull them out over the upcoming weekend. Nice work Dave
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gc
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Post by gc on Jul 17, 2020 7:38:50 GMT
This time it is a Re entry from Row 17, No 10 A faulty impression 1.2mm low. Duplication of left pupil and right nostril; a short line runs below and parallel to the base of the neck at left, a line of colour in the circle below the right shoulder, spots of colour in the value tablet extending into the lower gutter, including a spur under the P. The first image is a Davies printing perf 12.5 on star watermarked paper. The second image is a Davies printed reprint ( printed in 1884 ) for presentation purposes.
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DK
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Post by DK on Jul 17, 2020 8:14:56 GMT
Lovely examples again Grant. That SG110 (the 1d Carmine) is so crisp and vibrant, it must be an early printing of the 1864 SG110 p12.5. Very nice Dave
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jul 17, 2020 9:26:45 GMT
Grant ( gc ), thanks for starting this interesting thread, and Dave ( DK ), thanks for your knowledgeable comments as well. Despite being a WW classics collector for some years now, I had never even heard the term "re-entry" in a philatelic context prior to joining TSF in Nov-2016. Then I saw some examples of re-entries on early Canada issues, and found it very interesting. So, as a real novice to the field, I hope you won't mind if I ask a couple of really basic questions. After reading the first post in this thread, I was unclear on what the "gutter" was referring to, but now based on reading Grant's latest post more carefully, I think I have understood. Please confirm for me: is it actually the margin material outside of the frame of the design of the stamp? I also picked up on the term "lower gutter" in Grant's last post. So, does it mean that one can properly then refer to gutters further modified by terms like top, left, and right? Initially, I had thought that the gutter must only refer to something at the bottom of the stamp, but based on this last usage, I have revised my guess! If my interpretation of the gutter is correct then, if a stamp is off-centre, for example, and the perfs are right into the design on one side, can one say that it doesn't have a gutter on that side? Or can one refer to a stamp like that as a three-gutter copy? Can gutter be used interchangeably with margin? Sorry for so many questions, but I would like to get the lingo right! Thanks again for the great posts, guys. I am happy to be learning more about this great hobby of ours. Cheers, Chris
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DK
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Post by DK on Jul 17, 2020 19:49:40 GMT
Hi Chris I guess that Grant is best to explain 'his' use of terminology to us but in the interim I shall give it a go: With imperf. stamps the area of unprinted stamp between the framelines and the edge of the paper is referred to as 'margin'. So on a 4 sided stamp we are looking for 4 margins. On a triangular stamp (early COGH etc) we are wanting 3 margins. Ideally ones that are clear and full, The wider the better. So that is 'margins'. With perforated stamps we are concerned with 'centering'. Grant's use of 'gutter' here is in reference to the area between the framelines and the perforations. NB we do not refer to a perforated Chalon as having margins. That is reserved for the imperfs. Lesson: Most early New Zealand Chalons that are perforated are not well centered. The plates that were originally produced were poorly laid (in relation to the impressions) and spacing (particularly on the 1d plate) was indifferent. The impressions on the 1d plate were laid down on a slight angle and spacing was sometimes lacking completely. All of this made the early attempts of perforation of these sheets 'best efforts'. Prior to the Government receiving their first perforating machine (which went into use in June of 1864) perforating was done semi-officially by a postmaster in Dunedin who used a private firm to do this. They perforated the sheets p13. Their employees were paid by the sheet and often perforated multiple sheets at a time to speed the process up. Obviously this method produced some badly mis-perfed stamps (ref. my avatar!). So with perforated Chalons centering is the key. Grants 1d Carmine, above, is a lovely example of a p12.5 nicely centered. Dave
Note the angle of the design relative to the perforations. There is a lean to the left from bottom to top. This meant that getting a stamp to fall within the perforations was difficult and well centered examples command a premium. The first plates produced were the 'London' plates comprising the 1d, 2d & 1/-. These plates, the 1d in particular, were created without the later separation of the stamps in mind so much. (Presumably they were thinking only that the stamps would be separated with scissors). Later plates: 6d, 3d & 4d were laid down with the impressions more thoughtfully spaced between (with separation in mind!). PPS Only 1 plate for each value was used throughout the Chalon period (1855-1873). With one notable exception - the 2d. A 2nd plate was produced and put into use late 1865 due to the amount of wear on plate 1. SO with the 2d there is a plate 1 and a plate 2. Plate 2 impressions are also much more thoughfully arranged.
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Londonbus1
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Post by Londonbus1 on Jul 17, 2020 21:02:48 GMT
Am I correct in assuming this terminology applies only to the New Zealand Chalons ? Or is it something specific to New Zealand in general ?
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DK
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Post by DK on Jul 17, 2020 21:20:08 GMT
To be honest Londonbus, I hadn't really seen the use of 'gutter' per Grants use of it, until now. Rather, I was trying to explain 'his' use of it (plus some bits of history around it).
We'll let Grant explain more ....
Dave
NB 'Gutters' is referred normally as that unprinted area between impressions - ie GB Gutter pairs etc etc. Usually wide. I hadn't seen it used before, either, in relation to Chalons.
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gc
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Post by gc on Jul 17, 2020 23:52:22 GMT
Hi Dave and Chris Great stamps Dave, are they yours ? I used to think "gutter" was an American phrase, but not so sure now. I will quote Wikpedia which best describes the word gutter: "In philately, a gutter is the space left between postage stamps which allows them to be separated or perforated" I tend to use the word "margin" when describing my own stamps, and I have also seen the word "selvedge" used frequently. The images of the Chalon re-entries are from my own collection, however I have used Robert Odenweller's description of the details of each re-entry, which are found in his wonderful book "The Postage Stamps of New Zealand 1855 - 1873, The Chalon Issues" first printed in 2009. The next re-entry is from Row 11, No 3 This is a double re-entry, first recognized as such by Martin Button in 1940, characterized by two vertical frame lines inside the left frame of the stamp; the first 0.8mm to the right and extending to the bottom of the stamp, the second 0.25mm to te right and extending to the edge of the portrait circle. This second line disappears on later printings from 1871 to 1873. Additional features are doubling of parts of the frame line in the right gutter, lines of the face, necklace and bodice, and traces of doubling in the letters of NEW ZEALAND, POSTAGE and ONE PENNY. The first image is a strip of four from the Davies printing perf 12.5 on star watermarked paper, followed by a close up of the left hand stamp. The third image is a block of 16 from the Davies Reprints printed in 1884, on star watermarked paper, followed by a close up of the re-entry
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DK
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Post by DK on Jul 18, 2020 2:01:27 GMT
Thanks Grant - no those 3 shown above are not mine - I just grabbed a stock image for illustrative purposes. I will show mine later on. Here is one of 3 1d R11/3 re-entries that I possess : SG111a - Provisional imperf (no cert.) unfortunately only 3 margins .... but still a rare beast and the others I have: (excuse the black line on the value tablet of the 1st one - a bit of detritis that I hadn't seen at the time of scanning). Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on Jul 18, 2020 2:07:26 GMT
Here are some pics from the CP Catalog in reference to the major re-entries for the Chalon values : 1d:2d:6d & 1/-:
Dave
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gc
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Post by gc on Jul 19, 2020 4:16:58 GMT
Today's re-entry is from Row 5, No 9 A faulty impression 0.6mm to the left and 0.2mm high. In both early and late printings there are extra spots of colour in the letters of New Zealand and POSTAGE and in the centre of the nose. Doubling of the upper frame line and lower left frame line is much less obvious. The image below is a Davies printing on star watermarked paper perf 12.5 ( printed between 1871 and 8173 )
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gc
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Post by gc on Jul 25, 2020 1:13:42 GMT
Today's re entry is the 1d from Row 18, No's 5 and 6 A faulty impression ( extrinsic re-entry ) covering both positions with parts of the faulty left frame line 5.3mm from the right corner of No. 5 and faulty right frame line 6.5mm to the left of the right edge of No. 6. In No. 6, a curved line cuts the "W" of NEW from a portion of the heavily engraved base line of ZEALAND. There is also a small mark under the second "N" of PENNY The first image shown below is a Davies printing on star watermarked paper SG35 in a carmine-vermilion shade ( from position No 5 ) The second image is a pair printed by Davies on star watermarked paper perf 12.5 ( from positions 5 and 6 ) The last image is a pair printed by Davies on star watermarked paper perf 10 x 12.5 ( from positions 5 and 6 )
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DK
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Post by DK on Jul 25, 2020 2:31:37 GMT
Here is a drawn outline of the 1d R18/5-6. Makes it a bit easier to see the re-entries : Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on Jul 25, 2020 2:36:12 GMT
and a stock image I happen to have of it : 1d R18/6Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on Sept 12, 2020 23:03:21 GMT
SG99 NZ wmk - r16/3
Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on Sept 18, 2020 21:51:08 GMT
SG117 - r11/7
Dave
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Post by nbstamper on Sept 29, 2020 20:54:08 GMT
Dave Have a close look at the two pence blue in the array of mint Chalons you placed on the other thread; I was told it has a re-entry.
My 100th post, by the way.
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DK
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Post by DK on Oct 3, 2020 20:28:27 GMT
Hi nbstamper Sorry I missed this post from a few days ago. I didn't see it until now. Are you referring to this scan of yours? I have taken a copy from this image and blown it up but it isnt very clear unfortunately. What I can tell you is that it is a retouched example from the damaged plate 2 - from position R19/5. And here is a proof from the 'Hausberg' reprints of that position. Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on Jan 2, 2021 4:04:46 GMT
It has been a while since anyone posted a re-entry so thought that I would add this cover of mine : SG122 6d red-brown on 1867 cover to England with re-entry 17/10 Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on May 1, 2021 20:00:10 GMT
Have noticed this one up on eBay at the moment and thought it would be good to put on this thread for posterity. Not a re-entry, but, a positional flaw on the 2d plate 2 - R4/4 SG134NZ SG134 R4/4
Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on May 3, 2021 21:22:26 GMT
The following excerpt was copied from the Chalon thread, to here, where it is very appropriate : For everyone's interest I have added two extracts from "The Postage Stamps of New Zealand Vol. I (pages 33 & 34) on the process that was the cause of the Re-entry stamps ....quite interesting!
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renden
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Post by renden on May 3, 2021 21:24:18 GMT
Always of interest but I gave (sold) my New Zealand so you will not see many "likes" but I read them fast !!
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DK
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Post by DK on May 12, 2021 9:52:44 GMT
Here is a re-entry on the 1/- green - from R1/5 It is up on Delcampe currently at US$1500 ! Quote from the listing " Very rarely found. So much so that it isn't even mentioned in catalogues." NZ Chalon 1/- re-entry R1/5Dave
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Post by tundrawolf on May 12, 2021 19:55:43 GMT
Certainly a rarely seen re-entry, I think Grant has an example he might like to show. I thought I should add a re-entry and a flaw on the 1d's that haven't yet been shown. R19 No3 and a flaw not seen on the Perkins Bacon plate proof sheet so developed later. R9 No4 Philip
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DK
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Post by DK on May 15, 2021 0:02:33 GMT
Hi Philip Here is my copy of what I believe to be 1d R19/3 'doubling of top frame line" Dave
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skid
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Post by skid on May 26, 2021 1:33:30 GMT
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DK
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Post by DK on Jun 2, 2021 2:12:39 GMT
Yes, A good example of the R17/10 major re-entry on the 6d Mark. Good find!
Dave
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gc
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Post by gc on Jun 2, 2021 7:06:01 GMT
Here is a re-entry on the 1/- green - from R1/5 It is up on Delcampe currently at US$1500 ! Quote from the listing " Very rarely found. So much so that it isn't even mentioned in catalogues." NZ Chalon 1/- re-entry R1/5Dave Yes this is an elusive re-entry. I only have one copy. SG125 Yellow-Green Enjoy. Grant
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gc
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Post by gc on Jun 2, 2021 7:25:37 GMT
Yes, A good example of the R17/10 major re-entry on the 6d Mark. Good find! Dave Thought everyone might like to see the wear progression ( if in fact any ) of my own copies. Row 17, No 10 SG14 SG85 SG99 SG122 SG136 SG136 1884 Reprint Cheers Grant
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