DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 8, 2024 21:58:44 GMT
Love those blocks of 4 Klem :-)
I must look into getting some myself.
They are a neglected area in my sphere of collecting, I don't possess a single block of any value, mint or used (unlike my SSF collection).
And as you say, they are not common. I find even single values mint to be quite difficult to find in good condition.
Yours, above, are fantastic examples.
What is the gum like on these?
Although you don't find so many as Mint No Gum, they weren't too far apart from the Chalon's in time!
The Chalons are more abundant in MNG condition. Was the gum, that was used on the Chalons, much different to the First Sideface issue?
I guess gum technology had progressed a little between the Chalon's and the FSF set!
Dave
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 9, 2024 7:00:15 GMT
The gum is in fairly good condition on these blocks. A bit dry and patchy on the Rose block, but fairly full with only some discolouration and a few spots on the Pale Rose: |
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 12, 2024 10:03:50 GMT
 This is a NSW numeral 'rays' oblit (the '55' of Newcastle, I believe). Was wondering if anyone has come across one of these on a FSF? I've seen ship mail cancels from NSW before, but usually the oval N.S.W. oblit, as on the piece below:
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 13, 2024 8:07:45 GMT
No I haven't got one, after a quick search.
None on a FSF stamp but I do have the NSW oval on an SG41 and a few of the same on some SSF 1d's etc but nothing with an Aussie PM on a FSF stamp.
They cannot be too common then!
NB Your SSF 1d's above have an 1882 date too. Nice to have!
Dave
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 13, 2024 9:47:12 GMT
Thanks for checking, Dave.
The Newcastle cancel is confirmed. And, indeed, these ship mail cancels aren't too common. I found one other cover (a very nice item) from 1877.
Those Chalons with the NSW oblit are also interesting items. There was seemingly a complex and long-running interplay between the mail services in the two colonies. Read a little in PSoNZ III.
I was happy to get that 1882 piece as it has multiple points of interest - mixed FSF & SSF, late FSF usage and fairly early SSF usage, and the NSW duplex.
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 17, 2024 20:50:26 GMT
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 17, 2024 21:37:31 GMT
Really nice Klem. Great research too!
They make a very compelling case for what you are saying about that cancel.
Another reason to go and look thru' my collection for anything resembling this obliterator.
Well done
Dave
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 22, 2024 1:22:59 GMT
I was looking thru' my duplicates of the FSF's this morning and came across a couple of interesting items. The first is what at first glance looks like a 'mute' PB 11-bar cancel. Upon scanning and seeing it enlarged here, it may actually have something inside the bars, so I will need to use Retro Reveal to look more closely.  and the next item was a surprise as I wasn't really looking for inverted wmk's but found this one quite by accident : SG156w6d blue p12½ cat. £120  A productive morning, apart from having achieved other things this morning as well  Dave |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 22, 2024 1:37:00 GMT
Well I used Retro Reveal and am still not sure. I think I can see a partial 'C' or 'O' for Otago with a possible number but it is so faint. Retro Reveal hasn't helped too much! Gut feel it is an Otago postal district cancel - ie Oxx - O34 for example. Can anyone else make anything out there?  Dave |
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 22, 2024 8:44:52 GMT
The inverted WM on the 6d is a nice find, Dave. These are more scarce than their CV indicates. I have a few oblit cancels like that on your 1d. I've stared at them until I go cross-eyed trying to decipher them, but no luck.  |
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xacs
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Post by xacs on May 22, 2024 22:12:17 GMT
I was fortunate enough to purchase recently a full page of NZ FSF 1d lilac's. Approx. 46 of them on a page. Dated examples with the year of 1874 - the year of issue - are quite scarce. This page had about 3-4 examples, a couple in pairs! I also noted that they had annotated 'Inv wmks' as well so was more than happy to pay the NZ$90 for them (approx US$60).  I was more than happy, and surprised, to find this one amongst them :  Not only is the wmk inverted, but, it is also reversed - making this SG152y - cat £1000 I am a very happy chappie :-) Dave I too was lucky enough to recently purchase a page of 1d FSF issue (assume from same source and originally same collection). I recalled this post of yours and was pleased to see that there were some good items retained on the page. Mine did not annotate any Wmk Inverts or Perf varieties as such but was interesting for a range of postmarks.  Not to be wholly discouraged I was pleased to note at least a Perf 10x12½ on initial inspection. However on further processing this morning have discovered an irregular compound perf (one side P10) and like yours above this Inv Rev Wmk CP C1a(W) or SG152y.  Another "happy chappie" |
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xacs
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Post by xacs on May 22, 2024 22:29:23 GMT
And a last minute surprise as this pair turned out to have Perf 10 through the middle. Pays to check all sides! Looks obvious but I hadn't noticed until now.  Clayton |
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DK
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Post by DK on May 22, 2024 23:13:27 GMT
Excellent result Clayton.
He had several pages of these advertised, 2d's included. It certainly pays to check closely these types of lots.
Hidden treasure awaits lol
Very well done. Love that pair above with the p10 horizontally thru them.
Dave
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xacs
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Post by xacs on May 22, 2024 23:59:54 GMT
Yes, I picked up the Lot of 2d as well. No sign of any Wmk varieties here yet, though I noted that the section where inverts and star Wmks had been annotated on page had already had stamps removed, unlike your page of 1d. Was a Perf 10x12½ and what appears to be a 12½x12! This is not at all common so I will take a closer look to confirm before shouting about it  One example of a potential Nearly 12. All the others easily identified as "12x11½" but this one doesn't look to be comb perf however due to spacing of perfs is also difficult to pick out line attributes. |
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 23, 2024 6:07:28 GMT
One of the reasons I like the FSFs is precisely because there are some nice discoveries that can still be made. The Chalons have, largely, been very thoroughly examined (and more than a few manipulated), but the FSFs have been comparatively neglected. Some great finds there, guys!
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 23, 2024 6:17:42 GMT
By way of example, I bought this on eBay for £2. It's B2a (v), CV $2000.  It still surprises me how often irregular or double perfs (even the most obvious examples) are missed by sellers. I have numerous nice pieces acquired from eBay (with one hopefully arriving this week ...)  |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 23, 2024 7:05:55 GMT
Another great story of finding little treasures. Love it
I am so pleased that these items are 'found' by the very people who should find them.
They will be given fine homes with serious collectors like you two.
It is inspiring to hear these stories and perhaps, I too, may come to love the FSF issue! haha
Off to look for some 'double' perf Newspaper stamps now .....
Dave
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Post by tundrawolf on May 23, 2024 7:46:26 GMT
Here's another example of what can be found on ebay.  B2ab(Z) in CP which calls it mixed perfs, one side perf 10. I would have said irregular compound perfs although it may have resulted from mixed perfs at the top separated along the 12.5 perf line. This stamp was originally rejected when sent for a certificate but after a little further work was accepted on the second try. |
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xacs
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Post by xacs on May 23, 2024 10:45:11 GMT
Excellent result Clayton. He had several pages of these advertised, 2d's included. It certainly pays to check closely these types of lots. Hidden treasure awaits lol Very well done. Love that pair above with the p10 horizontally thru them. Dave It does beg the question as to how this irregularity came about. Supposedly the issue was normally 10x12½ with the horizontal perfs being by way of a multiple head rotary machine of Perf 10. While the vertical perfs were done with the single line head P12½. In order for the irregular horizontal Perf 12½ we are to assume that either a P10 line was missing and the resultant Imperf was corrected through use of the line P12½ or that a P10 not accurately placed was reperforated with the line P12½ which would create a mixed perf situation. In either of these cases the pair shown would require that both the upper perfs of top stamp AND lower perfs of bottom stamp would be thus effected and corrected. In the latter case any evidence of P10 at top or bottom no longer remains if these were originally Mixed. On appearance it would seem like these stamps were originally perforated 12½ horizontally as well as vertically and that a missing line perf was corrected with a single strike of P10. Is this a possibility? Interested in the experts opinions. Clayton |
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 23, 2024 15:39:26 GMT
It's a really nice piece, Clayton.
I wouldn't call myself an expert, but my feeling is that, if you look at the nice mixed perf variation on the first page of this thread, perf 12½ was used to correct an errant line of perf 10. It seems therefore likely to me that something similar happened with your block, but the upper and lower perf 10 (if they existed) have been separated.
But this is simply a theory. RK
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Post by tundrawolf on May 23, 2024 18:44:23 GMT
The closest spacing of the wheels on the rotary perf 10 machine only allowed for the perforating of every second row in one pass. The sheet could then be repositioned for a second pass or the rest of the perforating could be done with the 12.5 line machine. All combinations of irregular compound perfs were therefore possible and mixed perfs usually resulted from a misplaced row of perf 10 corrected with the line perf 12.5 machine.
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xacs
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Post by xacs on May 24, 2024 4:30:41 GMT
The closest spacing of the wheels on the rotary perf 10 machine only allowed for the perforating of every second row in one pass. The sheet could then be repositioned for a second pass or the rest of the perforating could be done with the 12.5 line machine. All combinations of irregular compound perfs were therefore possible and mixed perfs usually resulted from a misplaced row of perf 10 corrected with the line perf 12.5 machine. Thanks, that makes a bit more sense. I knew the rotary machine had had limitations but for some reason had assumed that the two passes required would have done the top and bottom halves of sheet respectively, which would not allow for alternate gauges of perforations. Of course this now appears more likely as every second horizontal line would be done in the first pass and, as you say, either the remainder done with another run through the rotary machine or with multiple goes through the line perf 12½. |
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xacs
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Post by xacs on May 24, 2024 4:46:48 GMT
It's a really nice piece, Clayton. I wouldn't call myself an expert, but my feeling is that, if you look at the nice mixed perf variation on the first page of this thread, perf 12½ was used to correct an errant line of perf 10. It seems therefore likely to me that something similar happened with your block, but the upper and lower perf 10 (if they existed) have been separated. But this is simply a theory. RK This too could always have been a possibility although as I pointed out it would mean that two lines would be corrected and then both no longer show signs of any mixed perfs. Here is the other single irregular compound from this lot. Hard to see as perfs look messy with all the hole remainders. Given the P10 line is poorly positioned, cutting through design, this may have been corrected but no sign of mixed perfs remain. As with Dave's Lot, there were a few early dates including this one 22 JL 74 
Clayton |
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 24, 2024 6:21:12 GMT
Anything dated in 1874 is always a nice find. Well done. Looks like a fun lot.
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 24, 2024 6:43:40 GMT
 Here's a montage of my FSF early use examples. The 3 & 4ds and the two 1/- pieces are some of the earliest known in these denominations and perfs.
All ways on the look out for early use FSF. Happy to swap for nice examples. |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 25, 2024 1:28:20 GMT
Nice items Klem, especially that 1/- block (double perfed too).
I keep my 1874 cancelled items so no trade from me there, lol
I am hoping to pick up an 1874 2d local cover next week. See if I can seal the deal on that one.
I Will post it up here if I can acquire it.
Dave
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 25, 2024 9:57:10 GMT
That 1/- block of four is a "false double perf". It looks double perf, and if the righthand two stamps weren't present, it would easily be mistaken for double perf. But it is simply a misplaced line in the gutter. Here's an example of a 6d with the correct spacing: 
That 1/- block is, however, certified by the RPSNZ as cancelled on 2 January 1874 - the first day of issue for the FSFs - which I believe may make it the earliest recorded first day of use for a postal issue of a New Zealand stamp.
Forgot to add these 1874 ones:
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 27, 2024 8:43:47 GMT
That 1/- block of four is a "false double perf". It looks double perf, and if the righthand two stamps weren't present, it would easily be mistaken for double perf. But it is simply a misplaced line in the gutter. Agreed on the 'false' double perf comment Klem. If that right hand stamp wasn't attached it would appear to be a double perf. See below mock-up:  Dave |
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 27, 2024 18:35:37 GMT
 I won an auction lot on eBay of used Newspaper wrappers, all of the 4th type from 1892. I'm not an expert on these, but there are a few points I noted that are odd/interesting. The top left example with the extra franking is nice, though sadly the addressee is not included in the piece. The bottom two are both addressed to international destinations, which contravenes the explicit instructions of WITHIN NEW ZEALAND that was specifically added to the text of the 4th type wrapper. As there is no sign of additional franking, these should not, I presume, have been accepted or incurred additional charges? With that said, the bottom left example to Switzerland may not have actually contained a newspaper as it has "Specimen Wrapper Only" handwritten across the bottom. Interestingly, it has a Swiss receiving stamp (below), so may have been a collector sending this.
Finally, the bottom right example from 1892 is fairly early use for the 4th type of wrapper as that was the year they were introduced. It is clearly different shade from the later wrappers, more crimson, but I don't have information on whether wrappers from this period are listed by shades.
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DK
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Post by DK on May 29, 2024 3:01:29 GMT
Nice lot of wrappers there Klem.
I am not the expert on these either but seeing them used for international mailings, when that IS strictly not what the wrapper states on it, is perplexing.
That Swiss addressed one is dated 1903 - had things changed by then I wonder?
More investigation required.
Dave
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