|
Post by biglavalamp on Oct 9, 2021 18:05:03 GMT
E of POSTES with hook on the right I collect Hradcanny (Prague castle ,Czechoslovakia) faults and defects of which there are hundreds its been accepted that the stamps were rushed and produced under pressure by politician's too quickly by inexperienced printers (never having printed postage stamps before) and poor machinery in poorly ventilated premises causing numerous faults and flaws......is there a accepted reason for so many defects with these pre cancels?
|
|
renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
|
Post by renden on Oct 9, 2021 18:15:50 GMT
E of POSTES with hook on the right (See previous post for image.) I collect Hradcanny (Prague castle ,Czechoslovakia) faults and defects of which there are hundreds its been accepted that the stamps were rushed and produced under pressure by politician's too quickly by inexperienced printers (never having printed postage stamps before) and poor machinery in poorly ventilated premises causing numerous faults and flaws......is there a accepted reason for so many defects with these pre cancels? I cannot see the crochet !! It must be there in front of you but on scan I wish we could have a magnification - René
|
|
racatrien
Member
Fan of Madagascar, Mauritius, Reunion (Indian Ocean more widely) but also everything else....
Posts: 150
|
Post by racatrien on Oct 9, 2021 18:59:34 GMT
Sorry for the quality because I wanted to answer quickly from my phone.
|
|
renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
|
Post by renden on Oct 9, 2021 19:07:29 GMT
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 10, 2021 12:25:02 GMT
The Anjou coat-of-arms issue was the last one to use the large circular overprint. The next set used a smaller overprint with the same message. It is composed of two re-used "peasant girl" definitives and, for the first time, a dedicated rooster design. In 1954, four issues: and the 24Fr blue-green rooster from: In 1957, five rooster-design issues: In 1958, four additional roosters: In 1960, after the monetary reform to the New Franc, the previous four stamps were re-issued with the new currency valuation: These stamps were also issued as imperforates, of which I hold nine:
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 11, 2021 19:15:23 GMT
The next set of pre-cancels is a dedicated design featuring an old Gallic coin, and with the precancellation mark already printed directly as part of the design. There were five prints of this design. In 1964, seven issues (PO#123-129): In 1971, four new issues to follow a postal rate increase (PO#130-133): In 1975, another rate increase and a small tweak to the design, with the bottom cartouche now reading "FRANCE" instead of "REPUBLIQUE FRANÇAISE" (PO#134-137): In January 1976, a new set of rates (PO#138-141): In July 1976, yet another rate increase (PO#142-145):
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 12, 2021 19:24:28 GMT
As one could see already with some of the rooster and gallic coin issues, a pattern is emerging that pre-cancel are issued in sets of four. This will continue for many years. The next set features the zodiacal sign, so spread over three times. Top row: 1977, PO#146-149 Middle row: 1978 (January), PO#150-153 Bottom row: 1978 (July), PO#154-57
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 13, 2021 8:07:07 GMT
The next set of four pre-cancels (PO #158-161) in early 1979 features mushrooms:
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 14, 2021 6:10:46 GMT
The next four groups of issues are all devoted to remarkable French monuments: First row: PO#162-165, late 1979 Second row: PO#166-169, 1980 Third row: PO#170-173, 1981 Fourth row: PO#174-177, 1982
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 15, 2021 6:19:40 GMT
In 1983, the pre-cancels feature allegories of the four seasons (PO#178-181):
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 16, 2021 7:10:18 GMT
In 1984, the topic was card suits (PO#182-185):
Obviously not designed by a card player, since the suits are in random order!
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Oct 16, 2021 8:59:30 GMT
hrdoktorx Thank you for all your posts, this thread has been really interesting. And informative. I had no idea this was such a comprehensive subject.
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 17, 2021 8:19:33 GMT
With this sort of encouragement, let's continue! The next three years (1985 to 1987) see the issuance of 3 sets of 4 stamps per year, as usual, and this time featuring the months of the year (PO#186-197):
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 18, 2021 5:38:38 GMT
The 1988 set of pre-cancel stamps features allegories of the four elements (air, water, fire, and earth), PO#198-201:
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 19, 2021 5:29:36 GMT
The most complicated set of modern French pre-cancels is undoubtedly this next one, on the theme of musical instruments. It started simply enough in 1989 with a usual set of 4, PO #202-205: First complication, these stamps are perf. 12, but the trumpet design also exists (un-issued, and very high CV), as perf. 13, PO #204A. In 1990, there's a complementary set of 7 issues (like in 1964), all perf. 13, PO #206-212: Then in 1992, the presses go crazy, and 11 stamps are issued, twice, as perf. 13 and perf. 12, PO #213-223 and 213A-223A. In general, the perf. 12 stamps are much rarer and more expensive than the perf. 13 ones. This is probably the highest CV set of modern French stamps. The designs are as follows: Another issue later in 1992 for a postal increase gets back to the "regular" set of 4 pattern, PO #224-227. These are perf. 13: Another complement of 4 issues in 1993, PO #228-231, perf. 13:
|
|
|
Post by biglavalamp on Oct 19, 2021 19:01:07 GMT
hrdoktorx I like the last two posts I normally only collect stamps up to 1970,but as Fagan says in the movie 'Oliver'.... I'm reviewing the situation.....and...'I think I'd better think it out again!'
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 19, 2021 19:01:43 GMT
Most of the modern French pre-cancels also exist as imperforates. I forgot to show, along with the months of the year set, the first four imperforate issues, from 1985:
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 20, 2021 5:24:50 GMT
The next set of pre-cancels gets back to basics, and issues, in 1994 (PO #232-235) and 1996 (PO #236-239), two sets of four stamps featuring tree leaves:
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 21, 2021 5:36:05 GMT
The last pre-cancel set in Franc denomination was issued in 1998 and features flowers (PO #240-243):
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 22, 2021 5:46:59 GMT
In the present Euro era, there has only been one design series of pre-cancel stamps. The theme is still flowers, but now with a colored background. In 2002, a first pair of stamps is issued (PO #244-245): The stamp on the right was actually cancelled, which is not supposed to happen, but sometimes does because of sloppy handling in the postal system. Also, some stamp dealers like to use the older Franc-era pre-cancels on modern correspondence, mixed in with normal stamps, and then those will likely bear cancel marks as well. Note also the change in the "overprint", that now reads "LA POSTE 20xx - OBLITÉRÉ". Note also the presence of a phosphor band on the left side of the stamps, which will be a recurring feature. In 2003, two more stamps are issued (PO #246-247): Unfortunately, I cannot yet show a copy of PO#246. But it's near the top of my "to-order-next" list of French stamps, so I have good hope I'll be able to complement this post in a couple of months! In 2004, one more stamp (PO #248): In 2005, one more stamps (PO #249): In 2007, three new stamps (PO #250-252): In 2008, we're back to the four stamps pattern (PO #253-256): A further complement of two stamps is issued later in 2008 (PO #257-258): In 2011, a new set of four stamps is issued (PO#259-262): These stamps no longer bear an actual denomination, but simply a postal rate reference, like "35g S1". So their purchase price to customers can evolve freely along with rate increases as they come. For that reason, there has been no need to issue new stamps since then, and these last four issues are still in use today.
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Dec 4, 2021 22:04:56 GMT
I had promised to obtain the "normal" versions of the sower pre-cancel PO52 and PO57 stamps, and they arrived today:
|
|
renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
|
Post by renden on Dec 4, 2021 22:47:34 GMT
I had promised to obtain the "normal" versions of the sower pre-cancel PO52 and PO57 stamps, and they arrived today: (See previous post for images.) Xavier....with this all talk about FRANCE pre-cancels.....I am starting to have a nice collection - keep posting `mon ami` -René
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Feb 18, 2022 21:10:11 GMT
Finally able to add to my collection the missing 2003 pre-cancel (YT #PO246), here with its issue partner:
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 22, 2022 21:03:38 GMT
Just arrived today, stamp YT #PO41 (the version with the thick overprint):
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Apr 9, 2022 12:06:10 GMT
Two new eagerly awaited arrivals, pre-cancels YT #PO24 and PO28:
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on Apr 10, 2022 6:57:16 GMT
By the way, you may notice that, on the PO28, the "P" of the "POSTES" overprint is followed by a period. I've never seen that variety mentioned before, but then again I am not a true specialist. Opinions welcome.
|
|
|
Post by gstamps on Apr 10, 2022 17:15:29 GMT
Congratulations. Nice stamps. I was afraid to buy them because there are so many fakes. On the website of French experts Brun and Chandanson there is an article about these stamps: www.philatelie.expert
|
|
hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
|
Post by hrdoktorx on May 13, 2022 19:51:23 GMT
Put side-to-side, the thicker and thinner types of the pre-cancel overprint, shown here on the YT #PO105 and PO105a stamps:
|
|
stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
|
Post by stainlessb on Oct 10, 2023 21:36:55 GMT
Give this thread a bump- I am going through 'some' Semeuse and Maury calls out a "sch fin", which the most sensible translation would be to indicate the "fine" overprint. I am looking at hrdoktorx last post in this thread and do you think your 'thinner" type would be th e'fine overprint? Was it a different plate,, or simply wear? I'm looking at the 10 c brown, PR 54 (or PO depending on catalogue) and the sch fin (PR 54h) was the first issued Tpe 1 (Dec 1925), the Type 1 not designated as 'sch fin" was issued Jan 1926, only one month later, but the dominant (by which I simply PR 54 (no subset) I'm not entirely sure what to look for... the images above , at a glance looks like heavier inking (?) If I find what i think mught be the PR 54h I will post along with the PR 54.
|
|
|
Post by wvgm3 on Apr 1, 2024 15:23:32 GMT
Here is another example of the difference between surcharge grasse (Yv Preo 53) and surcharge fine (Yv Preo 53a), both Type I, with the 53a signed by Calves. The fine surcharge is valued at almost 100x the grasse surcharge.
It sounds like the surcharge was printed in different methods: surcharge rotative, abbreviated as "r.", vs surcharge a plat, abbreviated as "p." Y&T 2021 has a good illustration of the difference on page 1330 (I can scan if you don't have access to this illustration). Yv also lists a Type II (53d) with surcharge grasse.
|
|