drblade
Member 
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Jun 6, 2023 16:03:55 GMT
3 more Machins to add to my specialist collection, which I received today from my trusted eBay seller. The 50p bar-coded stamp is a sheet error 06/04/22 SG V4750 (DG B50.1.1a) DG TYPE V (I2) INSET PHOSPHOR BAND @ RIGHT. 1st business sheet single M15L MBIL dull phosphor with inset band @ right on plain backing paper SG U3021. 1st M21L MCIL on security backing paper 2upright (DG N1.62.24) SG U3027 from the Wonder Woman commemorative booklets.  |
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Jun 13, 2023 9:49:12 GMT
thunderbird1 There were 2 pairs available in the same auction, the other went for £100 sterling, but my wallet said don't bid on both of them.  Yeah, but even if you did buy both pairs, that’s less than half price what bbst**ps is charging on eBay. Hey, if you do see them again at such a reasonable price, you could possibly give me a tip-off  cheers Hi thunderbird1 I've been looking around @ various auctions, not seen any "daggers" so far. There is a pair on eBay @ the moment (cheapest I've seen), the link is www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334903096414?hash=item4df9c7b45e:g:QwoAAOSw~DRkgLK6 Thought you may be interested. |
|
thunderbird1
**Member** 
Posts: 15
What I collect: Machins, Machins, Machins….
|
Post by thunderbird1 on Jun 14, 2023 18:08:18 GMT
Yeah, but even if you did buy both pairs, that’s less than half price what bbst**ps is charging on eBay. Hey, if you do see them again at such a reasonable price, you could possibly give me a tip-off cheers Hi thunderbird1 I've been looking around @ various auctions, not seen any "daggers" so far. There is a pair on eBay @ the moment (cheapest I've seen), the link is www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334903096414?hash=item4df9c7b45e:g:QwoAAOSw~DRkgLK6 Thought you may be interested. Thanks for the info drblade. I've dealt with the lads before - I think last time was at the 2019 Spring Stampex. I must admit, it is tempting to buy the dagger pair but I think my stamp budget won't allow it. The stamp budget is the one put aside that, as Arthur would say, 'er indoors' doesn't get a whiff of ;-) |
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Jun 19, 2023 14:00:27 GMT
Although my specialist Machin collection comprises of unmounted mint stamps I decided to add the bar-coded used stamps to it, due to the fact that not many were devised before Queen Elizabeth's reign sadly ended. Funnily enough many of these stamps also have a prolific amount of flaws, both minor & some I would definitely call major ones. I doubt if any have been catalogued yet!! The scan is of my first added page.  |
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Jun 21, 2023 16:14:23 GMT
I received the scanned Machin stamps today, just a few cheapo's from eBay which will go into my specialist collection.   |
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Jun 24, 2023 8:47:41 GMT
And BTW, there is also a profile for it on page NVI-27 in Machins_NVI1.pdf Many thanks for your reply. My disc needs updating. I had the profile after all so I must have got it from one of the reports?? I've been doing too many numbers over the past few days, my brain is frazzled. Thanks again. thunderbird1 Hi again thunderbird1 I have just been re-checking the posts on this item (& the stamps). The backing paper in the booklet is not as I previously posted. It is 1 UPRIGHT Also the printed colour on the stamps including the queens head is far darker than others of the same timeline. I'm thinking that the booklet is a fake/forgery unless I can find a profile for 1 upright.  |
|
thunderbird1
**Member**
Posts: 15
What I collect: Machins, Machins, Machins….
|
Post by thunderbird1 on Jun 24, 2023 13:39:48 GMT
Many thanks for your reply. My disc needs updating. I had the profile after all so I must have got it from one of the reports?? I've been doing too many numbers over the past few days, my brain is frazzled. Thanks again. thunderbird1 Hi again thunderbird1 I have just been re-checking the posts on this item (& the stamps). The backing paper in the booklet is not as I previously posted. It is 1 UPRIGHT Also the printed colour on the stamps including the queens head is far darker than others of the same timeline. I'm thinking that the booklet is a fake/forgery unless I can find a profile for 1 upright. Hi drblade quick recap: the iridescent security codes are M20L/MTIL. The backing paper is of type SBP1u (and not SBP2u or i) According to MBPC, the the backing paper for booklet M20L/MTIL - SB1(26)E - only exists in SBP2u/i. The only 12x1st class SA booklet with backing paper type SBP1u is M16L/MTIL - SB1(26). The other thing I notice is that the security slit cut types are missing the gaps at top and bottom, or are extremely small - maybe it's just the image quality, but take a closer look. The M20L/MTIL single that I have has gaps on all 4 sides. And you are right about the shade. My example is extremely bright. Can you check the DOP -> should be inverted. My conclusion is -> Degam doesn't list it and MBPC doesn't list it, so either this is an extremely rare book, or it's a fake/forgery. If you belong to the MBPC, it might be worth getting in touch with one of the experts who can maybe help you further. Sorry if I couldn't be of much help. cheers |
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Jun 24, 2023 14:19:22 GMT
Hi again thunderbird1 I have just been re-checking the posts on this item (& the stamps). The backing paper in the booklet is not as I previously posted. It is 1 UPRIGHT Also the printed colour on the stamps including the queens head is far darker than others of the same timeline. I'm thinking that the booklet is a fake/forgery unless I can find a profile for 1 upright. Hi drblade quick recap: the iridescent security codes are M20L/MTIL. The backing paper is of type SBP1u (and not SBP2u or i) According to MBPC, the the backing paper for booklet M20L/MTIL - SB1(26)E - only exists in SBP2u/i. The only 12x1st class SA booklet with backing paper type SBP1u is M16L/MTIL - SB1(26). The other thing I notice is that the security slit cut types are missing the gaps at top and bottom, or are extremely small - maybe it's just the image quality, but take a closer look. The M20L/MTIL single that I have has gaps on all 4 sides. And you are right about the shade. My example is extremely bright. Can you check the DOP -> should be inverted. My conclusion is -> Degam doesn't list it and MBPC doesn't list it, so either this is an extremely rare book, or it's a fake/forgery. If you belong to the MBPC, it might be worth getting in touch with one of the experts who can maybe help you further. Sorry if I couldn't be of much help. cheers Thanks for your reply, thunderbird1 the dop is impossible to see clearly, all 4 sides appear blurry, "no teeth". The security slits appear fairly normal left & right but maybe a bit narrower than the norm top & bottom. Also all the letter S of 1st are inked in over the top & bottom curves. I'm pretty sure this is a forgery. I got it on eBay cheap, one of the sellers comments was, quote "don't send the stamps back on the swap out scheme" unquote. I think that says it all. |
|
paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
|
Post by paul1 on Jul 4, 2023 13:10:36 GMT
possibly a limited audience, but hopefully of some interest to collectors of U.K. Machins. This miniature sheet is the third such issue, from the second series of miniature sheets, and was issued by the Royal Mail in January 1990 - marking the one hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the U.K. Penny Black. I was surprised to see - mostly because I almost never look at my Machins - that I had four used copies of this stamp - so is the assumption that people have been breaking up their miniature sheets, or was this stamp sold singly do we know please? - see photo. Also attached are examples of this standard 20p. 'black' as issued in the Regional series - not sure when, but likely c. 1990 - am sure those who have encyclopedic knowledge of these things will put me right. Stamps shown are for England, Wales (Welsh dragon), Scotland (Scottish dragon ?), and the open palm for Northern Ireland.   |
|
anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,603
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
|
Post by anglobob on Jul 4, 2023 13:30:09 GMT
paul1150th Anniversary of the Penny Black There are numerous versions of this 20p value.I doubt if any of the stamps shown here are from the souvenir sheet. You can see all the different versions on Colnect .Look under year 1990 Anglobob
|
|
paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
|
Post by paul1 on Jul 4, 2023 13:40:09 GMT
thanks Anglobob - yes, am aware that there are other colours, and Regionals, of the 20p. def., however, it was due to the identical appearance, and size, of the mini-sheet stamp with those in the top line of my second photo, that suggested either this 'double head' version was sold singly or someone was breaking mini-sheets.
|
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Jul 4, 2023 14:08:53 GMT
thanks Anglobob - yes, am aware that there are other colours, and Regionals, of the 20p. def., however, it was due to the identical appearance, and size, of the mini-sheet stamp with those in the top line of my second photo, that suggested either this 'double head' version was sold singly or someone was breaking mini-sheets. The first, second & fourth stamps on the top row are from booklets notice the cut right, top & left sides. They were also issued in various Prestige Booklets where its possible to take singles from with all sides perforated. The miniature sheet was also presented to Royal Mail staff in a folder which also contained a medal showing the penny black head. |
|
paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
|
Post by paul1 on Jul 4, 2023 15:07:51 GMT
thanks drblade - so in fact this stamp wasn't issued in the mini-sheet only, and was available in other formats as you've explained. I thought it unlikely that mini-sheets were being broken to source the stamp. Forgive my ignorance on these Machin issues - I don't go out of my way to purchase them, they arrive often in bunches with other purchases of U.K. issues. I rather like this anniversary 'double head' design - classical looking.
|
|
|
|
Post by daniel on Jul 4, 2023 16:21:16 GMT
thanks Anglobob - yes, am aware that there are other colours, and Regionals, of the 20p. def., however, it was due to the identical appearance, and size, of the mini-sheet stamp with those in the top line of my second photo, that suggested either this 'double head' version was sold singly or someone was breaking mini-sheets. The first, second & fourth stamps on the top row are from booklets notice the cut right, top & left sides. They were also issued in various Prestige Booklets where its possible to take singles from with all sides perforated. The miniature sheet was also presented to Royal Mail staff in a folder which also contained a medal showing the penny black head. The sheet in the Royal Mail Staff Folder was of a slightly larger size, see my post here. Daniel |
|
Ryan
Moderator 
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,754 
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
|
Post by Ryan on Jul 7, 2023 0:15:53 GMT
I rather like this anniversary 'double head' design - classical looking. I like the design as well, and am always very happy to find the higher face values in kiloware. My collection is generally underrepresented in modern British stamps above the 1st & 2nd class rates (except for Machins - I found some kiloware strictly composed of above-letter-rate Machins once, yay me!). Here's an image of the full set of "double head" Machins, nabbed fom an eBay seller.  Ryan |
|
paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
|
Post by paul1 on Jul 7, 2023 7:04:51 GMT
thanks Ryan - my collection is very under-represented in almost everything post 1970s, although I can boast that I have scores of Machin's about which I know almost nothing. Just had a quick look through but don't see a any of these double head values apart from the 20p we've been discussing. I must look for some - it's not that I need them, it's just that the moment I realize something is less than common my collector radar turns on and I get that 'I must have it buzz'. Were the printing numbers lower on these, than other single head issues do you know?
|
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Jul 7, 2023 12:48:57 GMT
thanks Ryan - my collection is very under-represented in almost everything post 1970s, although I can boast that I have scores of Machin's about which I know almost nothing. Just had a quick look through but don't see a any of these double head values apart from the 20p we've been discussing. I must look for some - it's not that I need them, it's just that the moment I realize something is less than common my collector radar turns on and I get that 'I must have it buzz'. Were the printing numbers lower on these, than other single head issues do you know? I'm not sure of the numbers printed as I don't research these figures normally, (if I get up to 100 my abacus glitches). The following numbers are those sold for the double heads 15p = 357,131,600 - 20p = 521,688,400 - 29p = 14,683,800 - 34p = 15,557,600 - 37p = 22,338,200- figures are for sheets. The miniature sheet (20p) had a quantity of 1,991,550 issued. |
|
paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
|
Post by paul1 on Jul 7, 2023 13:48:13 GMT
five hundred and twenty one million six hundred and eighty eight thousand and four hundred, is a prodigious quantity for the 20p value - thank goodness for the ancient Indian (subcontinent) and Arabic scholars for inventing 1, 2, 3 etc.
thanks drblade for adding this stunning piece of historic information :-):-) Just remembered I do have acres more Machin's to search through - now, when is the next wet Sunday afternoon planned for I wonder.
|
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Jul 7, 2023 14:05:08 GMT
five hundred and twenty one million six hundred and eighty eight thousand and four hundred, is a prodigious quantity for the 20p value - thank goodness for the ancient Indian (subcontinent) and Arabic scholars for inventing 1, 2, 3 etc. thanks drblade for adding this stunning piece of historic information :-):-) Just remembered I do have acres more Machin's to search through - now, when is the next wet Sunday afternoon planned for I wonder. It's supposed to be wet here this weekend. I've got too many Machins to deal with, many in place already in my specialist albums which I think need more checks to identify them correctly, weekends not long enough. Come to think of it neither is Monday to Friday & I'm retired.  |
|
paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
|
Post by paul1 on Jul 7, 2023 14:24:15 GMT
I think it's supposed to be wet in the south of England too, this weekend, but of course folk like us don't need the excuse of rain to spend time with stamps - I'll just continue ignoring my oh, that surely will get me another hour or two. Being my own worst enemy as always, it's the other two or three hobbies that also get in the way - I really need several life time's for all the excitement such hobbies generate !!!
|
|
Wittybebop
**Member**
Posts: 32
What I collect: Anything GB mint
|
Post by Wittybebop on Jul 12, 2023 16:18:03 GMT
Ok I've just joined but prior to that I did have a look in on a few posts mainly Drblade's one, I must say you have a pretty exhaustive collections of Machin's, I'm still sorting through mine and also use the Deegam HB5, cutting out the piece that corresponds with the stamp I used to as like yourself mount on sheets etc with Hawid, but with the ever increasing finds could not justify the time and expense. So I took the stockbook way so I can easily move stuff around, unfortunately my buying consists of many different GB items so I get Machin's as and when, I don't really intend on going into KCIII so it come to an end on Elizabeth II. I'm pretty envious of you collection from what I've seen, I hope we can compare stuff? I do have some odditys Mispers/Imperf etc  |
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Jul 13, 2023 8:24:35 GMT
Ok I've just joined but prior to that I did have a look in on a few posts mainly Drblade's one, I must say you have a pretty exhaustive collections of Machin's, I'm still sorting through mine and also use the Deegam HB5, cutting out the piece that corresponds with the stamp I used to as like yourself mount on sheets etc with Hawid, but with the ever increasing finds could not justify the time and expense. So I took the stockbook way so I can easily move stuff around, unfortunately my buying consists of many different GB items so I get Machin's as and when, I don't really intend on going into KCIII so it come to an end on Elizabeth II. I'm pretty envious of you collection from what I've seen, I hope we can compare stuff? I do have some odditys Mispers/Imperf etc Thanks for your reply Wittybebop , I'm finding a lack of space & time lately for organising my Machins. I think if I started with the collection again I would use the "stock book method". I've just got some more Machins @ auction with some of them in blocks of 4 & cylinder blocks of 6. The blocks of 6 don't fit between my profiles already in sequence on their album pages. I'm reluctant to split the blocks (to fit) due to some higher cat values. Hopefully I will continue to post in this thread in the future. Keep in touch. |
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Aug 2, 2023 17:54:32 GMT
I'm currently working on my specialist Machin items, the last batch from the auction lot of last month. These are regionals mainly in cylinder blocks. I have just listed the Waddington 22p (Type II) green on eBay as auction. The other cylinder blocks are currently being added to the appropriate album. Current cat value £175+ scarce.  |
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Aug 22, 2023 10:23:00 GMT
I received the scanned stamps earlier this morning along with their respective Deegam profiles. The stamps will be added to my specialist collection in due course.  |
|
angore
Member
Posts: 5,709
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
|
Post by angore on Aug 23, 2023 10:39:03 GMT
How do you track your Machins? I see Wittybebop and @ drblade refer to Deegam numbers but you have a master list of Deegam to inventory? The question is how do you deal with the complexity? I have a spreadsheet but based upon SG Concise with my own code system to define varieties. |
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Aug 23, 2023 11:34:37 GMT
How do you track your Machins? I see Wittybebop and @ drblade refer to Deegam numbers but you have a master list of Deegam to inventory? The question is how do you deal with the complexity? I have a spreadsheet but based upon SG Concise with my own code system to define varieties. The Deegam profiles are printed out from the Deegam disc which is updated regularly. The profiles are more or less in order of the stamps issued. Varieties of each stamp have the same "base" or level number with the end number, at the base of the profile, added to refer to the variety, for example 1.1.1./ 1.1.1a/ 1.1.1b/ 1.1.1c, with the stamp/s being added in sequence with its profile. When new "finds" are reported the profiles & descriptions of these will be issued in regular reports which Deegam members can download from the Deegam website along with the new profiles, for printing out. These can then be added in sequence by referring to the numbers at the bases of the profiles. There are 3 levels of base numbers which I personally call basic, intermediate & level 3. The profiles can be moved to suite individual collectors preferences of sequence. The complexity for me comes in checking that I have the correct stamps source, as well as head types, phosphor & all the other details shown on the profiles. Some checks are easy others not.  |
|
angore
Member
Posts: 5,709
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
|
Post by angore on Aug 23, 2023 19:03:20 GMT
I have the latest and likely last Deeham handbook (HB5 with just reports) so know all about profiles but do not use them. It is my reference but do not use it to organize anything. It sounds like you organize by Deegam.
As for Deegam levels I do not like their catalog method but accept it for what it is. It is far more difficult to define a level to collection since the .x digit has so many possible variations.
For example, DG 30.xxx means 30p but any color,etc. A DG30.x level can vary by paper coating/gum, phosphor bands, phosphor type, bar width, printer, and print method (6 parameters drive the .x level for what I collect). This is already the deep end of the pool. And perforation is at 30.xx level where tablet position, format (sheet, booklet, etc) also come into play.
I believe Adminware's Machin pages like internediate or specialized are a better way to approach collecting and organizing. I do correlate spaces to SG and Deegam but not tracking if I have DG00.1, 1z, 2, 3,4 etc. For used stamps, gum is not important.
|
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Aug 23, 2023 21:41:57 GMT
I have the latest and likely last Deeham handbook (HB5 with just reports) so know all about profiles but do not use them. It is my reference but do not use it to organize anything. It sounds like you organize by Deegam. As for Deegam levels I do not like their catalog method but accept it for what it is. It is far more difficult to define a level to collection since the .x digit has so many possible variations. For example, DG 30.xxx means 30p but any color,etc. A DG30.x level can vary by paper coating/gum, phosphor bands, phosphor type, bar width, printer, and print method (6 parameters drive the .x level for what I collect). This is already the deep end of the pool. And perforation is at 30.xx level where tablet position, format (sheet, booklet, etc) also come into play. I believe Adminware's Machin pages like internediate or specialized are a better way to approach collecting and organizing. I do correlate spaces to SG and Deegam but not tracking if I have DG00.1, 1z, 2, 3,4 etc. For used stamps, gum is not important. I printed off the Adminware pages years ago (specialised) & thought they were good but nowhere as specialised as the Deegam, which if the profiles are interpreted correctly gives the full details of any stamp. |
|
angore
Member
Posts: 5,709
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
|
Post by angore on Aug 24, 2023 9:47:50 GMT
My comment was collecting with a defined collection goal (sets some bounds) rather than collect only by Deegam structure so really opened. The numbering sysyem (levels) does not lend it to a bounded collection.
|
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 850
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Aug 24, 2023 10:11:54 GMT
My comment was collecting with a defined collection goal (sets some bounds) rather than collect only by Deegam structure so really opened. The numbering sysyem (levels) does not lend it to a bounded collection. My comments were pointed towards enabling the fullest possible range of collectable Machin singles. There are still varieties/flaws etc not covered by Deegam or other "systems" but that's another method of collecting. Depends on the individual collectors preferences. |
|
