REL1948
Member
Posts: 773
What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, British Empire Postal History, Switzerland Postal History
|
Post by REL1948 on Dec 10, 2021 23:53:20 GMT
Hello Cape of Good Hope Triangle aficionados.
Let me start by saying I don't collect them or have any experience with them but I've thoroughly enjoyed following the COGH Posts on the Forum.
Sparks Auctions recently held their Auction #38. One of the lots that caught my attention was a collection of COGH forgeries that piqued my interest because of the Forum posts. I tried to connect Beryllium Guy with the auction but wasn't able to make it work. I was disappointed because I wanted to share them with Chris and get his opinion.
Since the auction ended I've been able to copy those images, I'd like to share them here now. I found some of them to look very Good while many were merely laughable. Perhaps some of you might recognize some of the Forgers names? It would be interesting to have some background to these forgeries if any of you are familiar.
Rob
The auction Lot description: Cape of Good Hope Extensive Collection of Triangle Issue Forgeries, with 212 Cape of Good Hope triangles including Woodblock issues, mostly forgeries but a few genuine and reprints included. Highlights include 6 Woodblock reprints attributed to A. Jurgens, Fournier forgeries including a block of 8 and proof of his postmark, twelve scarce engraved Oneglia forgeries, including “ONE PENCE” error for “ONE PENNY”. Spiro forgeries include two blocks of 8. Many other triangle forgeries by unknown forgers. Also includes 4 of the rectangular Hope issue forgeries by Spiro.
A great lot for the forgery or Cape of Good Hope specialist,
"Sparks" Auction Number 38, Lot Number 1471
Sold on 11-29 for $775.00 US
|
|
stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,978
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
|
Post by stanley64 on Dec 11, 2021 10:43:02 GMT
Great to see these Rob ( REL1948 ) and all at one time; thanks for showing! It is a ready made collection and I would like to see them written up and exhibited... Happy collecting!
|
|
rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
|
Post by rex on Dec 11, 2021 11:33:15 GMT
Interesting. You were right to save the images and post them here.
I see that the fakes sell well at auctions, they are sought after by specialists and experts in the sector, precisely to be used as reference points for comparison.
They are also interesting to some collectors precisely because they are fake. Fakes have their own charm too.
|
|
vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
|
Post by vikingeck on Dec 11, 2021 11:59:37 GMT
Superb listing and collection !
Many of the forgeries are crude, and once seen with an original would not fool even a beginner like me. On others Sometimes the postmark is a dead give-away, being of a design never used in the Cape,
Then there are wood block reprints which actually have a commercial following and a value, and finally I have to say there are some very good reproductions there, even if Litho rather than engraved, some are dangerously very good.
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 12, 2021 20:59:37 GMT
Sorry for being slow to post a response, Rob ( REL1948 ). I agree with Alex ( vikingeck ) and Ludovico ( rex ) that it is an excellent collection of Cape triangle forgeries. I never cease to be amazed at how much money the forgeries can bring. It's generally not as much as the genuine stamps, but sometimes the prices for forgeries are not far off. I just saw one of the Spiro forgeries of the 6-pence offered for €40.00 (about $45.00) on Delcampe. I paid substantially less than that for one of my own genuine used copies of the 6-pence! Anyway, thanks for posting and starting this thread, Rob, as it will make a good place to track any members' experience with Cape triangle forgeries.
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Oct 19, 2022 15:03:03 GMT
I found it discouraging to see that this blatant forgery sold for $58 on eBay. Or is the forgery market that strong??
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 19, 2022 15:23:29 GMT
Thanks for your post, JeffS. I quite agree that this is clearly a forgery, probably a Spiro one, but please don't quote me on that, as I have no expertise on that level. Can you see the original listing? Was it identified as a forgery by the seller? If so, I would never pay that much for it, but perhaps someone else might. Other opinions are welcome, of course.
|
|
vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
|
Post by vikingeck on Oct 19, 2022 16:34:32 GMT
I found it discouraging to see that this blatant forgery sold for $58 on eBay. Or is the forgery market that strong?? Well it does have 3 good wide margins !!!! Astonishing colour, and if you have ever seen any COGH, the cancel is wonderfully imaginary, that does not resemble in any way shape or form the standard postmark . As a historical reference item, a known forgery, I would say half that buying price might be not unreasonable, though none of my half dozen forgeries cost more than $5 or so but none are as pretty as this
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 19, 2022 19:03:10 GMT
Hi, JeffS and Alex ( vikingeck): I decided to move these posts about the forgery over to the dedicated thread started by Rob ( REL1948) some time ago. I hope you don't mind, but I like the idea of keeping this sort of info together. Thanks for your understanding.
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Oct 19, 2022 21:06:01 GMT
Excellent move! I wasn't aware of the forgery thread.
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Nov 18, 2022 2:00:34 GMT
I won this little lot of counterfeits (facsimiles), at $15.+ including tax and shipping (less than $3 each) I thought it a fun lot to have
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Nov 23, 2022 19:51:06 GMT
You gotta love the concept of a Cape 1-penny blue
Does anyone know offhand who is credited with this forgery? We are headed out for the Thanksgiving holiday and I've no time right now to look it up (but I'm glad to when I get back)
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 24, 2022 15:04:14 GMT
JeffS: I moved your two posts on forgeries over to this subject-specific thread. I have been trying to find out more about the one you posted (1-Penny in blue), and if I find anything of interest, I will post again. In the meantime, I will tag Morten ( classicalstamps) to ask if he knows anything about your example. There is a red one on his site that looks similar to yours, but the maker is not specified. stampforgeries.com/forged-stamps-of-cape-of-good-hope-triangle-1d/
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Nov 24, 2022 15:52:32 GMT
Thanks Beryllium Guy Chris. I recall this TSF thread from previous surfing but didn’t remember it as a TSF thread. Thank you for the Morten link as well. I see I need to do some much-needed bookmark maintenance.
|
|
stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,978
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
|
Post by stanley64 on Nov 24, 2022 18:20:04 GMT
Always for a challenge and learning something new, I believe your Cape 1 Penny Blue JeffS is a forgery from the woodblock printings. Although no credit is given the forger, this website has the stamps listed as a Third Type, where "the word 'CAPE' is written slanting to the left, the word 'OF' therefore seems to be printed lower. Other similarities include the tell-tale 'V' in her lap, the lines or 'waves' around the anchor and the lettering of 'POSTAGE' all seem to match.
Given the website author, Mr. Evert Klaseboer states he has also seen "a 1 p red and a 4 p blue (the usual colours) of this particular forgery", makes your example an interesting find...
Have fun and happy collecting!
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Dec 2, 2022 18:52:49 GMT
This 1-shilling forgery (not described as such) is currently at $28.76 on eBay
Seller ID marcomarkeymark
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 2, 2022 19:03:28 GMT
Thanks for your post, JeffS . I took the liberty of moving this one over to the Cape Triangles Forgeries thread, too. Interesting that you should post about this particular example. I sent the seller a message a few days ago letting him know that it is a forgery. It seems pretty clear (to me at least) that the bidders think that they are getting a genuine stamp. It is hard for me to imagine that any informed bidder would be willing to pay nearly $30 for a common Spiro forgery, therefore I conclude that the bidders don't realize that this is the case. It's a poor show on the part of this seller that he has not taken any action after my message to him.
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Dec 2, 2022 19:08:37 GMT
Thanks for your post, JeffS . I took the liberty of moving this one over to the Cape Triangles Forgeries thread, too. I apologize. I keep forgetting about that separate thread. Thank you. I have notified him as well.
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Dec 3, 2022 18:53:49 GMT
The previously-mentioned forgery of the Cape triangle shilling sold for $48.89, a shameful situation given that the seller, markomarkeymark was advised of it's forgery status but failed to reply to notifications by two different people and continued with it's fraudulent sale.
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 3, 2022 19:27:35 GMT
Thanks for the follow-up, JeffS. That is a sad situation indeed. Would it do any good to report the seller to eBay?
|
|
hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,886
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
|
Post by hdm1950 on Dec 3, 2022 20:11:43 GMT
The previously-mentioned forgery of the Cape triangle shilling sold for $48.89, a shameful situation given that the seller, markomarkeymark was advised of it's forgery status but failed to reply to notifications by two different people and continued with it's fraudulent sale. The sellers name is actually marcomarkeymark. They have a long history on eBay and sell a lot of better classics. I am not sure if they edited the listing but they vaguely covered themselves with the item title 'CAPE OF GOOD HOPE 1854-1862 Used Imperf Triangle 1/- Green Unchecked for Type VF' . Rather sneaky and sleazy way to do business.
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Dec 3, 2022 20:29:27 GMT
Beryllium Guy - eBay could not care less. At one time eBay had a small committee of philatelic experts which could funnel complaints about stamp fakery to eBay for action. This did not last long.
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Dec 3, 2022 20:35:42 GMT
Always for a challenge and learning something new, I believe your Cape 1 Penny Blue JeffS is a forgery from the woodblock printings. Although no credit is given the forger, this website has the stamps listed as a Third Type, where "the word 'CAPE' is written slanting to the left, the word 'OF' therefore seems to be printed lower. Other similarities include the tell-tale 'V' in her lap, the lines or 'waves' around the anchor and the lettering of 'POSTAGE' all seem to match.
Given the website author, Mr. Evert Klaseboer states he has also seen "a 1 p red and a 4 p blue (the usual colours) of this particular forgery", makes your example an interesting find...
Have fun and happy collecting!
stanley64 - thanks for your comment which I had not seen until today. Could you clarify what you wrote: I believe your Cape 1 Penny Blue JeffS is a forgery from the woodblock printings.
|
|
Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,676
|
Post by Admin on Dec 3, 2022 22:05:25 GMT
Beryllium Guy , JeffS and hdm1950 , The seller was apparently in the hospital having a tumor removed and unable to respond to your notifications. I know this because he has requested membership so he can "set the record straight." I am engaged with him via email because I don't want to accept him for membership if he is only going to post a response and then never be heard from again. I have offered to post his side of the story and am waiting to hear back from him.
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 3, 2022 22:16:42 GMT
Thanks for letting us know this, Steve ( Admin). I am certainly interested in hearing what he has to say.
|
|
stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,978
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
|
Post by stanley64 on Dec 4, 2022 9:34:12 GMT
Not a problem JeffS , from the earlier image shared,
I was suggesting this a forgery of the COGH from those printed from the woodblock series as shown on Mr. Evert Klaseboer's website here and is listed as his "Third Forgery".
The website has a quite extensive coverage of the forgeries, but for all of its accreditation to the various fogerers, these woodblock forgeries have no attribute. On the plus side and again from the website, the green colour may be a bit of anamoly as Mr. Klaseboer states, "I have also seen a 1 p red and a 4 p blue (the usual colours) of this particular forgery"
Have a look...
Have fun and happy collecting!
|
|
Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,676
|
Post by Admin on Dec 5, 2022 16:06:37 GMT
Thanks for letting us know this, Steve ( Admin ). I am certainly interested in hearing what he has to say. An email string of 18 messages failed to get a cogent response (perhaps attributable to language differences). As best I can determine, the seller took offense to having been publicly "outed" (my word) without having a chance to respond, and also to an email received which threatened to report him to ebay. His reason for not responding to notifications was that he was undergoing surgery to have a tumor removed (he even sent me an image of the freshly stitched and bandaged scar). I asked if he had contacted the stamp's buyer to make him or her aware that the stamp was or may be a forgery and his response was essentially, I'm here because of the comments and what's happening with the sale was not for me to know. He continued to assert that I wasn't accepting him for membership so that he could reply, even though I'd made multiple request for him to provide a reply that I could post on his behalf. His final comment to me follows: I closed the conversation by advising him that I would post what I believed to be his primary concerns. His membership application has been rejected. I didn't see his listing and can't comment on the stamp's validity but I do think that we need to seriously consider whether or not "naming and shaming" is a practice that is allowed on the Forum. This is an issue to be addressed within the Moderator team.
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Dec 20, 2022 20:38:45 GMT
In today's mail, a second ONE PENNY blue, rather crude in its execution:
|
|
JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
|
Post by JeffS on Jan 6, 2023 4:57:19 GMT
Received recently, a rather crisply engraved forgery of the 6d. Passes the fingernail test.
|
|
vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
|
Post by vikingeck on Jan 7, 2023 11:59:05 GMT
Hi JeffS , where do you find all these neat forgeries.? I am now trying to acquire some for reference purposes. I have two different one penny issues which came by chance in a job lot and today paid £7 ( including postage ) for a Spiro 4d on eBay . My offer of £6 against an asking price of £10 was accepted.
|
|