JeffS
Member 
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jan 7, 2023 20:20:00 GMT
Hi JeffS , where do you find all these neat forgeries.? I am now trying to acquire some for reference purposes. I have two different one penny issues which came by chance in a job lot and today paid £7 ( including postage ) for a Spiro 4d on eBay . My offer of £6 against an asking price of £10 was accepted. Hi Alex, thank you for the post. Mostly onesies, here and there. I did buy a lot of 7 or so a couple months ago and I have another lot in someone's postal system, on the way, somewhere. I see I have two of this one, If of use to you, you are welcome to it. Jeff |
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sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 366
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Jan 8, 2023 0:18:31 GMT
Some of those forgeries are really good. Makes me think I have no genuine stamps.
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jan 11, 2023 0:34:46 GMT
For anyone interested in Cape of Good Hope forgeries, search HipStamp using Cape hope forgeries. I shall keep my comments to myself.
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator 
Posts: 5,917 
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jan 11, 2023 6:23:50 GMT
Some of those forgeries are really good. Makes me think I have no genuine stamps. Roy, I hope that you will post images of your stamps in the Cape Triangles thread, and let's have a look. Forgeries are reasonably common in relative terms, but to my knowledge, they are still far outnumbered by the genuine stamps, so I am hoping you will be willing to share. There are plenty of cases where the reverse is true, and the forgeries outnumber the genuine by 10 to 1. JeffS: I have checked Hip Stamp per your suggestion, and I am surprised at the prices some sellers are asking, as they are more than what I paid for genuine copies of the same stamps! I can only guess that they paid too much for the forgeries in the first place, perhaps thinking them genuine, and they are now trying to recoup their costs. Good luck to them. I see that you and Alex ( vikingeck) are interested in the forgeries as references, and I think that for a study, they could certainly be useful. My point of view is limited, perhaps, because I feel that I can readily recognize the forgeries, so I have little interest in obtaining copies. I do not own any at this point. I don't see myself buying any forgeries on their own, but if I came across a nice lot of material that was fairly priced and included a forgery or two, I might acquire some that way. While it is not my area of interest, I salute those of you who are interested in making a study of the Cape Triangle forgeries! It is an important area for study, to be sure, so best of luck in your pursuits. |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jan 11, 2023 21:20:34 GMT
My recent lot of 8 COGH triangular forgeries have been soaked of old hinge remnants, dried and pressed. The lot of 8 included 5 which are on a green/greenish and maybe bluish paper. (the 4d ?) The share common characteristics of an outer margin line often found with COGH fakes, often attributed to "by Spiro". I havent yet had the proper light and rested eyes to look at printing similarities between the stamp designs Scanned at 600 dpi on my crap Brother printer/scanner. Trying to shoot a gang of 5 with my phone camera had too many reflections to deal with. |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jan 11, 2023 21:33:03 GMT
A quick post/question about terminology regarding these "falsch" items. I have been struggling to settle on a proper term and I came across this post on StampBords by OttawaMike:
"I've always liked this convention:
Forgery - a fraudulant stamp made to fool collectors
Counterfeit - a fraudulent stamp made to fool the post office
Fake - An indefinite term, all inclusive."
I am quite agreeable with the application of the word "forgery" in this instance. Does anyone have a different opinion?
Js
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,917
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jan 11, 2023 21:44:55 GMT
Thanks for your latest post, JeffS. The terms as you have listed them from the other site look OK to me, but I should be clear that I have no special expertise in this area. As Morten ( classicalstamps) owns a website on forgeries, perhaps he can offer a more qualified opinion about these terms. stampforgeries.com/ |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jan 11, 2023 22:48:30 GMT
I tend to regard stamps as forgeries or counterfeit much as you highlight above.
“Fake” I would reserve to use where the item has been manipulated in some way using genuine original materials
Eg. A trimmed or damaged stamp that has been improved by re-backing or reperforated.
An overprint or surcharge which has been manufactured to resemble a genuine overprint
A late or incorrect postmark applied which pretends genuine usage
A stamp or a postmark added to a letter or piece which did not originally belong there
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salentin
Member
collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 6,557
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Post by salentin on Jan 12, 2023 12:54:04 GMT
JeffS ,just a question from an amateur: the pictures look very "flat" to me,as if the forgeries were not printed by recess,but maybe litho. Is that correct ?
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jan 12, 2023 14:07:42 GMT
JeffS ,just a question from an amateur: the pictures look very "flat" to me,as if the forgeries were not printed by recess,but maybe litho. Is that correct ?
Litho, yes, as most are. Engraved forgeries are few, but my post of Jan 5 shows such an example. Thanks for asking. |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jan 12, 2023 23:26:26 GMT
3 more forgeries from that lot of 8 The first looks to be a Spiro, white paper. The second not the same quality as the first. The third is quite wretched in quality |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jan 17, 2023 12:06:30 GMT
Hi JeffS , where do you find all these neat forgeries.? I am now trying to acquire some for reference purposes. I see I have two of this one, If of use to you, you are welcome to it. Jeff Many thanks JeffS ! Nice little surprise in today’s mail. This pretty lady with a “shady”history rang the doorbell this morning . it is intriguing that the postmark actually looks like the later style barred oval Cape type …. Could they indicate it might actual postal fraud? |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jan 17, 2023 16:44:36 GMT
Hi Alex, vikingeck I'm glad it made it there, and in record time as well. To answer your query about the cancel, I see what you are saying, but it too is totally fictitious. |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Mar 2, 2023 15:51:35 GMT
Here is a forged cape cancel offered on eBay by a seller who DOES point out that it is a forgery. If we look closely we can see the brownish remainder of a pen cancellation.
A pity because at one time even with the pen cancel it was a beautiful stamp.
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Mar 16, 2023 0:13:40 GMT
Today I came across a more serious forgery of the One Shilling stamp. the main give-away is the construction of the wording ONE SHILLING which is crowded and cramped. The second warning of fakery is the rather ambiguous barred cancellation. This is listed on eBay without a disclaimer and has several bids. 
Edited, replaced image with correct forgery. Sorry. |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,917
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 16, 2023 0:46:37 GMT
JeffS , I contacted the eBay seller about this a couple of days ago, and he told me that he would contact the top bidder to let him know. He also showed me a photo of the back, and believe it or not, it actually has a forged watermark, too. I was surprised by that.
Edit: JeffS contacted me outside of the Forum to point out that the seller of this current unnoted forgery is the same one with whom we had a run-in a few months back. My apologies for having forgotten that detail. As this seems to be a recurring situation, anyone interested in knowing his identity, please PM me. It is a sad state of affairs when sellers can get away with using the term "unchecked" in their listings and fall back on that to claim no knowledge that the stamp is a forgery, even when it is pointed out to them. All we can do as collectors and customers is circulate the information amongst ourselves and not give the seller any of our business.
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Mar 18, 2023 21:22:59 GMT
This blatant fake was sold today at auction on eBay for $54
(Image courtesy of eBay seller marcomarkymark)
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Mar 19, 2023 17:04:46 GMT
Here is a rather dangerous fake for someone who might be unaware of the nuances between this fake and the real thing. The first giveaway is the rather squiggly indistinct background to the right of Hope. The real thing is usually well defined. The second is the cancel which tries to emulate the triangular COG cancel with a series of bars in a parallelogram outer shape.  Seller has been contacted. Holding my breath  |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,917
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 21, 2023 17:54:08 GMT
Thanks for posting, JeffS . Finding Cape Triangle forgeries on the sales sites (eBay, Delcampe, and HipStamp) that are not identified as such is virtually a constant. I respect what you are doing in contacting the sellers, but I hope you don't drive yourself crazy with it. I tried to do it for a while, but eventually I have given it up as a mission. I will occasionally contact a seller, especially if it is one that I know, but most of the time, I don't do it anymore. One exception to this is that I do want to check the APS Stamp Store listings on HipStamp, and I will let them know when I see forgeries there. I have generally gotten responses to those messages. In one case, there was a Cape Triangle listed at $300 or so, and that one was removed within a couple of hours of the time that I contacted them about it. I haven't checked the APS listings lately, so there are probably some forgeries in there again. Anyway, good luck with your latest one!  |
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Post by ponso1 on Jun 3, 2023 17:22:16 GMT
 i just purchased these in an eBay lot and they are described as fake. Can anybody assist me by telling me what gave them away as fake because they look pretty good to me. much thanks! |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jun 3, 2023 17:57:18 GMT
Hi ponso1 There is a good thread already for COGH triangles, perhaps Admin will transfer this across. From a quick look at your pic I'd have said the lower one looks pretty convincing from the front. Does it have an Anchor watermark ? If it has I believe it is probably OK . Now stand back and look at the two together . That upper one just doesn't look right does it? The letters are too large, the design lacks engraving lines in the frames. The little ornament at the apex is unclear and not as pretty as it should be . All in all once you have seen a couple of genuine, that one just screams " phoney " |
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Post by ponso1 on Jun 5, 2023 0:14:41 GMT
Thanks Viking- I am traveling now but I will check watermarks when I get home!
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,917
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jun 5, 2023 2:01:05 GMT
Thanks for your post, ponso1. It’s nice to have a new contributor on Cape Triangles. Thanks for your post, Alex ( vikingeck). Yes, I will move these posts over to the forgeries thread later. I am travelling at the moment. I agree with your assessment, Alex. Top stamp is a forgery and bottom one looks genuine. I would guess a PB printing, based on the color. Ponso, would you please post an image of the back of the bottom stamp? We need to see if there is any bluing on the back to give a proper ID. Thanks! |
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Post by ponso1 on Jun 8, 2023 16:09:02 GMT
I am in Thailand until 6/19 but will post the back of the stamp and check the watermark upon my return. Thanks! Evan
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Post by ponso1 on Jun 17, 2023 2:53:27 GMT
  so I see a watermark but no bluing. Perkins or De la rue? Scott 4 or 13? |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jul 16, 2023 16:08:15 GMT
Another blatant Cape Triangular forgery on eBay, this the 1-Shilling. Offered at $75.
Seller has been notified. I don't recall seeing this "cancellation" before. |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jul 16, 2023 19:51:35 GMT
That is so crude an imitation…surely a brief comparison with any of the dozens of genuine on eBay would be enough to turn off any one with half an eye.
one or two of your earlier examples were much more dangerous , there is no excuse for this one.
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jul 18, 2023 12:28:39 GMT
To his credit, the seller of that fake shilling removed the listing within 24 hours of being notified |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,847
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Aug 30, 2023 22:39:24 GMT
6 months since the last forgery report. Well that's too long! Perhaps we can include faked covers as well? If not feel free to create a new thread. The cover pictured below is described thus: CAPE OF GOOD HOPE AFRICA - 1861 - TRIANGLE 6d ON HMS NARCISSUS COVER - CAPETOWN 1861
POSTAL HISTORY
6d TRIANGLE IMPERFORATED STAMP ON COVER
POSTED ON BOARD H.M.S. NARCISSUS
( H.M.S. NARCISSUS WAS A FRIGATE IN SERVICE FROM 1859 TO 1883 )
TIED BY CAPETOWN POSTMARKS
RARE COVER
I am certain that at one time this cover with whatever stamp was originally on it was a nice cover. "Rare" is subjective.
But in my opinion this stamp is no way tied. Look at the "tieing" cancellations. This is quite a hatchet job.
I sent a note to the seller stating that this is a blatant forgery but have received no response at the time of this writing.
Your opinions about what the original cover was like and the postal history aspects of it are sincerely solicited.
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,917
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 31, 2023 21:25:19 GMT
Many thanks for your latest post, JeffS .... Your eagle-eyed powers of observation do you great credit!  Based on your post, I have gone ahead and updated the thread name to make it a bit broader and to include covers, which I agree are an important part of the whole picture, both on Cape Triangles and forged materials that target Cape Triangles. On the image you have posted: In general, I agree with your assessment, Jeff. This does indeed seem to be a blatant forgery, concocted in an attempt to fool some gullible collector. It is absolutely obvious as soon as one looks at the triangular obliterator cancel on the stamp that has no continuation tying it to the cover. For me, that's enough. End of story. It's a shame that someone has glued an otherwise perfectly nice looking 6d slate-lilac on there. But perhaps that's the point. It only looks nice, and in reality, it is thinned or otherwise damaged, so affixing it to the cover solves more than one issue. But of course, that is all pure speculation on my part, and it must be regarded as such. The only way to get more of a clue as to what's going on is to acquire the cover and soak off the stamp to see what evidence of what might have been underneath it originally, and to assess the condition of the stamp itself. That's about the best I can come up with. I was having a bit of trouble confirming the date using the red cancels on the back. One looks to be 1861, but the other seems to have its last digit obscured by an ink blob, and I wonder if there might be anything funny going on there, too. If the date was actually 1864 rather than 1861, the cover might have originally had a rectangular COGH stamp on it. Other opinions and ideas are welcome, of course! Once again, kudos to you, Jeff, on spotting this one for what it is! |
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