drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Oct 29, 2021 13:58:41 GMT
Single copies of each Machin (normal issues) are collected & added to my main collection as time allows. Just over 2 years ago I decided to try & specialize with them, using the Deegam system & profiles to levels 2/3. An ongoing project would be an understatement. The scan is of my work table a couple of days ago, where I am placing profiles into yet another album. 12 profiles per page, the current ones on the scan, being the Large 2nd class NVI's. (12 pages with 12 profiles per page). (1st class types next). The following have been completed so far. Pictorials - 14 pages x 12 profiles per page, 1/2p to 21/2p 80 pages x 12 profiles per page, 3p t0 10p's 85 pages x 12 profiles per page, 101/2p yellow to 191/2p grey green 79 pages x 12 profiles per page, 20p purple grey to £5 109 pages x 12 profiles per page, NVI's small 1st class 75 pages x 12 profiles per page, Pre-decimal, anniversaries & 2nd class NVI's small 87 pages x 12 profiles per page, Scotland Northern Ireland Wales & Isle of Man 97 pages x 12 profiles per page. (A total of 7,656 profiles so far)?? The corresponding stamps are mounted to the right of each profile? ??
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Post by dgdecker on Oct 29, 2021 20:13:09 GMT
Drblade,
You are certainly dedicated to this project. Any idea how many hours you have spent creating this thus far. Would it be possible to show a completed page? i have limited my specialization to have at least one copy of each issue. I still have a lot of empty spots to fill.
David
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Oct 30, 2021 8:14:53 GMT
Drblade, You are certainly dedicated to this project. Any idea how many hours you have spent creating this thus far. Would it be possible to show a completed page? i have limited my specialization to have at least one copy of each issue. I still have a lot of empty spots to fill. David Hi David, The scans show a couple of the better filled pages, believe me I have quite a few empty spaces to fill. Many of the profiles show the cylinder numbers for each stamp, so it's not easy to find singles showing a cylinder number & splitting blocks becomes more expensive. I've lost count of the hours spent on this project but as I am retired, its a lot. Keeps me off the street corners & away from Covid 19 though!! When I first started the project I suppose I started working on it about mid morning & worked through until 1 or 2 am the next day on a daily basis. It's probably about 4 or 5 hours a day at present. The 3rd scan is a stock book page of stamps to be added to the album/s.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Oct 30, 2021 10:56:16 GMT
It is a mighty challenge to collect Machins according to Deegam profile. All the best. My question is can someone take a mint Machin and determine its exact Deegam number using standard tools. I know one challenge is phosphors as there was a lot of variation and a "hot" PCP may be confused with an "ACP". You may need unused stamps to determine gum. If I was going to go all in, I would follow the Adminware speciality pages. I actually use them as a reference to decide what I want to collect. One dream goal is to correlate this to Deegam. These pages boil it down to a subset. Adminware specialist page example (just 1 of 8 pages) of the ½p turquoise blue issue. Adminware Intermediate page (all ¼p are on one page). The major aspect is source (sheet, booklet, coil, etc) plus value types (thick/thin). Do you have a spreadsheet with all the Deegam entries? I created a l;st of all Machins in the Intermediate and ended up with 1974 listings and includes regionals up to 2016.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Oct 30, 2021 11:45:19 GMT
It is a mighty challenge to collect Machins according to Deegam profile. All the best. My question is can someone take a mint Machin and determine its exact Deegam number using standard tools. I know one challenge is phosphors as there was a lot of variation and a "hot" PCP may be confused with an "ACP". You may need unused stamps to determine gum. If I was going to go all in, I would follow the Adminware speciality pages. I actually use them as a reference to decide what I want to collect. One dream goal is to correlate this to Deegam. These pages boil it down to a subset. Adminware specialist page example (just 1 of 8 pages) of the ½p turquoise blue issue. Adminware Intermediate page (all ¼p are on one page). The major aspect is source (sheet, booklet, coil, etc) plus value types (thick/thin). Do you have a spreadsheet with all the Deegam entries? I created a l;st of all Machins in the Intermediate and ended up with 1974 listings and includes regionals up to 2016. I don't have a spreadsheet at the moment. I use Adobe PDF where I list each stamp, (almost forgotten about it so it needs updating). I can add sticky notes to it so I can identify any checks etc that need to be finished. I use the info on the profiles + denomination & the Deegam disc to source missing items. It's possible to identify some machins just from the profiles, others not. There is a printable sheet on the Deegam disc (handbook) that can be used to identify individual stamps. Levels 2/3 Deegam, describe many things like head types, phosphor variations, tagging varieties, different printers, papers etc. Sometimes it's difficult to identify from a single item, which cylinder it is from where the cylinder number is shown on the profiles. If the stamp has a listed flaw again it can be identified, but that generally means you would need a specialist catalogue to find the listed flaws. I have a couple of folders containing the Adminware pages which gives me backup info. I particularly like the panes etc printed at the base of these pages as a further source checker. I seem to remember reading (some time ago) that over 12000 different singles were "in the mix". Probably a lot more now??
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Oct 31, 2021 10:31:59 GMT
I do not actively collect the self-adhesive security issues.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Nov 1, 2021 10:55:36 GMT
I do not actively collect the self-adhesive security issues. I'm not surprised really, there are many sources for them apart from the counter ones, booklets & prestige booklets are fairly expensive to buy to get different variations etc.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Nov 5, 2021 8:37:57 GMT
The scan is of page 2 of my Machin 2nd class large NVI's after adding the stamps & a few extra penciled notes. Page 1 is the earliest issued versions of the 2nd class, most of which are in my "main album", so not much point in scanning that page. The 2 missing stamps here are, the 2009 "OYBL" with type 2 security slits & the 2013 "MA13" counter sheet example, don't know how I missed that one. The U numbers & Connoisseur Cat numbers will be penciled in later, underneath each profile. The issue dates & print dates are noted below each stamp where known. The MA13 counter sheet stamp has since been added.
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Post by michael on Nov 5, 2021 12:48:34 GMT
I stopped collecting Machins in 2000. Many reasons including a dislike of self-adhesive stamps and not being able to easily distinguish the various types of gum/paper/printer etc.
So if you mixed these all up, could you sort them out correctly?
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Nov 5, 2021 13:51:55 GMT
I stopped collecting Machins in 2000. Many reasons including a dislike of self-adhesive stamps and not being able to easily distinguish the various types of gum/paper/printer etc. So if you mixed these all up, could you sort them out correctly? Hi michael, If I can't identify a stamp immediately I would consult my Deegam HB5 disc to find the info. With the current NVI large stamps gum is not an issue due to them being on various backing papers which are easy to distinguish, except for a few weak prints. Printer is usually fairly easy, especially MA D.L.Rue. M Walsall, which are codes on the actual stamp. At the moment most printings are by Walsall. Again paper is not much of an issue due to the backing paper. I am struggling @ the moment to understand the following with the self adhesives, which I intend to post about on the forum. (notes on the profiles ISS, ISN, ISNE). Also 4.5 & 9 on the phosphor type, line. I appreciate the latter are band measurements, but the 2 different sources elude me. MBPC lists don't seem to mention these. On earlier none self adhesives it can be difficult to distinguish gum/paper/printers immediately, but many publications mentioned on the forum will usually explain how to.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Nov 6, 2021 10:08:58 GMT
For gum, this does not work for used stamps but you may be able to back into it by other identification. For the non-security self-adhesive NVIs, you can tell printers by die cut perforations.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Nov 29, 2021 11:02:03 GMT
For gum, this does not work for used stamps but you may be able to back into it by other identification. For the non-security self-adhesive NVIs, you can tell printers by die cut perforations. I've got several of the die cuts in my stock book which have not yet been checked. 3 of them still in the sequence in which they came from auction without any i.d. I seem to remember 3 different printers of these at the time, but they will still need checking fully due to the various sources.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Jan 13, 2022 13:14:31 GMT
Just added these 2 to my 2nd large pages. (2 full business sheets tucked away) also.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Jan 19, 2022 11:02:12 GMT
The following scan is a page from an album of 20 pages, (containing different booklets), which I started a couple of years ago. The booklets were "exploded" when I obtained them in an auction lot. My intention now is to split the panes further and add the individual stamps/pairs (where missing) to my Machin albums alongside their respective profiles. A few of the panes will be kept intact due to the fact they have flaws (listed & unlisted) or contradict some of the catalogue descriptions.
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Jan 20, 2022 17:38:34 GMT
I though I was specialising in Machins but the Deegam system looks very in depth. I too use the admin ware specialised pages. I sorted a lot of mine into envelopes last year but still have 1000’s to go through. My pleasure comes from finding used varieties so gum types are irrelevant really. Great collection though and please keep us up to date with progress.
Regards
Graham
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Jan 21, 2022 11:19:29 GMT
Thanks for your comments, radiocruncher. Most of my Machins (singles) are in my main collection inline with the albums I use. They were mainly sourced from Royal Mail as they issued them. Most have still to be "fully" checked. Since starting the Deegam specialization they have just about taken over from my main collection, although I try to keep up to date with current issues, (definitive & commemoratives). Gum as you say is not an issue on used, on mint it's surprising the amount of types & colours there are. I will try to keep this thread up to date & hopefully it will be of some use to other Machin collectors. I have plenty of spaces yet to fill & just finishing off adding the pictorial profiles to an album, (England, N.I., Scotland & Wales).
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jan 21, 2022 11:26:14 GMT
For me, the value of Deegam is as a reference. I do not use the Deegam numberings as a checklist on what to collect. Deegam provides 3 levels of specialization but even the first level can be a challenge since it includes the gum chemistry. Of course, you can back into the gum type at times using other factors if available (source, phosphor, printer, head type, etc.). Most other catalogs put gum as a specialization level. But then Deegam relegates perforation differences to the 3rd level. My focus has been on simplifying identification such as this thread. thestampforum.boards.net/thread/8957/machin-self-adhesive-2nd-printer
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Jan 21, 2022 17:16:23 GMT
Personally I think that perforation differences are more important than gum types, but again possibly a personal choice for individual collectors. Using Deegam as a reference is a good idea because the depth of investigation/research done by the Author & others is & has been exceptional. I doubt if my collection to level 2/3 will ever be fully completed because of the complexities with the Machins (most) + cost, but I would like to think so???
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Jan 29, 2022 13:06:19 GMT
Back to the 1/2p where it all began (almost). The scan is of 1 of my Deegam/Machin pages. As it stands the missing 1/2p stamps are the LB & RB's omitted, 1 missing phosphor + the broad bands from cylinders 7 & 8 & DP11B. The 3 individual stamps on the 2nd scan are all from cylinder 7 with various different flaws. (spot on base of collar), (scratch behind collar), (white spots in hair).
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Feb 21, 2022 9:20:06 GMT
A few more Machins identified & added to the album over the weekend. 3 more to find to complete the page. Notice the cylinder 6, 22p identified from a listed error.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Mar 2, 2022 13:49:36 GMT
I've just purchased this pane on ebay this morning. So another 4 stamps to add to my album against the appropriate profiles, after they have been checked over. The pane is from PSB DX39 (The Machin the making of a masterpiece) in 2007.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Mar 13, 2022 10:29:24 GMT
A scan of one of my 1st Class NVI pages (with 4 items still to source) De-la-Rue & Walsall printers. The missing stamps are 2012 cylinder W6W1 short bands base from booklets of 6, 2012 short bands base from business sheets, 2012 inset left band & iridescent overprint shift from business sheets & 2012 2 bands from commemorative booklets with iridescent overprint shift.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Apr 14, 2022 17:39:24 GMT
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Apr 14, 2022 17:50:43 GMT
As a long time GB resident who stopped collecting GB stamps years ago ‘cos Machins were getting too complicated for my feeble concentration span , all I can say to you drblade is. “Wow! amazing !”
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brightonpete
Departed
Rest in Peace
On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Apr 14, 2022 21:05:19 GMT
Looking at the immense complexity of this series, I think I'll get one of each value and be happy with that! I'll add perf differences, and major (non-magnifying glass needed) changes etc, but to go further is just too much! There's too much other stuff to do and then non-stampy things too!
Peter
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Apr 14, 2022 21:34:10 GMT
As a long time GB resident who stopped collecting GB stamps years ago ‘cos Machins were getting too complicated for my feeble concentration span , all I can say to you drblade is. “Wow! amazing !” Thanks vikingeck, it took me about 12 hours over the past 5 days to check through the stamps on the scans + 1 more page of.
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,716
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
Member is Online
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Post by renden on Apr 14, 2022 21:39:17 GMT
As a long time GB resident who stopped collecting GB stamps years ago ‘cos Machins were getting too complicated for my feeble concentration span , all I can say to you drblade is. “Wow! amazing !” I have to admit that I am not into "Machins" but it is always a pleasure to read the posts, once in a while so have fun....I gave mine away last year and my inventory says = 0 !! René
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Apr 20, 2022 11:37:07 GMT
Working through the 1p values at the moment from my recent auction lot bid, but I thought I would show a couple of 9p violet from the same lot. Unmounted mint imperforate pairs. The left one is SG X883a & the right side one is the imperforate phosphor under ink pair, which is not listed in my copy of the Gibbons concise catalogue. Stoneham lists it as M192a.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Apr 30, 2022 14:34:59 GMT
One of the first pages to be completed after adding several stamps from my last auction lot. The CC numbers are still to be added later.
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on May 1, 2022 17:50:25 GMT
More chaos with the 15 & 1/2p's. Found a couple a while ago with incomplete bases then 2 more. All 4 are left & right transposed phosphor bands. Cat value £65 sterling each for the transposed type but what would it be with the incomplete bases as well??
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