vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 26, 2020 21:48:52 GMT
Yes indeed Richard Debney aka Cape Triangle has assembled a fabulous collection and thanks for referencing it here. He started in 1969 , I started three months ago, I don’t think I have 50 years left , or the money to play catch-up . I just have to do my best with what is affordable and on the market and have fun. (I previously subscribed to that “other forum” ........but that’s another issue.)
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 27, 2020 12:37:04 GMT
BLUEING ! I note that Debney on page 12 of Frame 1 writes : With such a fantastic collection, I would count him as justified in suggesting that trying to differentiate SG1 from SG3 is totally artificial. He further writes on page 13 that with 12 Printings, colour + Blueing more or less matched the contemporary GB penny reds
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 27, 2020 14:42:14 GMT
Yes, Alex ( vikingeck ), this is exactly what I have been trying to explain in my posts about identifying COGH Triangles according to SG numbers when it comes to blueing, but perhaps I haven't done it very well. In fact, when I mentioned that I had been reading the posts of a COGH Triangle specialist on another forum, it was to Richard Debney that I was referring. I have been going over the COGH Triangle ID thread on the other site and have been studying his comments and responses. I have learned a lot by doing that, but he is undoubtedly a world-class authority on the subject after such a long period of specialization. I have enjoyed reading his posts very much. And thanks to Morten ( classicalstamps ) for posting the link to the thread on Richard's Stockholmia 2019 exhibit. I hadn't seen that before.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 6, 2020 9:47:01 GMT
Moderator Note: This post with quote was moved from the Whatcha Been Stamping? thread to this one for further discussion on this specific topic.
Some six weeks since I bought them I plucked up courage to tackle the FOURPENCE Cape of Good Hope triangles 10 singles , a pair and a block of 4 (all used) Spent an hour or so floating to remove accumulated hinges and bits of paper . The strong printing blue ink makes it hard to decide whether the paper has blueing or is it just the ink showing through. Ok enough already, save the examination when they are dry for another day. Thanks for this post, Alex. Glad to hear that you are still "at it" with the 4-Pence Blues.... Lots of interesting possibilities for varieties and shades. I don't have as many of these as you do, but I will show you what I have and my opinions about what I have, and hopefully, we can help each other arrive at some reasonable conclusions. After making this post in its original thread (Whatcha Been Stamping?), I will move it to the COGH thread and make further posts there.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 6, 2020 13:02:34 GMT
Cape of Good Hope Identifying the Four-Pence Blue TrianglesOK, Alex ( vikingeck ), let's get started on discussing the most commonly encountered of the COGH triangular issues, the 4-pence blue. After one of my last posts to you, I realized it was time for me to take my own advice and assemble all of my 4-pence examples and do a side-by-side comparison. Here is what I found: COGH 4-Pence Triangles (Revised Identification based on input from Richard Debney)Row 1: Three varieties of SG6: probably SG6a, 4-Pence Blue followed by two examples of SG6, 4-Pence Deep Blue, all on so-called "White Paper" (i.e. white only in being not blued); in these examples, the paper shows brownish and yellowish toning, and especially in the first example, a dark bluish toning which must have been due to ink transfer, because it is not blueing. It is an example like this first one that is most easily misidentified as an SG4. Row 2: Left: SG4a, Blue on Slightly Blued Paper, Center: SG6, Deep Blue on White Paper, Right: SG4, Deep Blue on Slightly Blued Paper. It seems that ironically, the Slightly Blued Paper examples actually have the whitest-looking paper, which shows the "robin's egg" blue color of the slight blueing. I originally misidentified these two SG4 varieties as SG6 varieties, and it was Richard Debney, long-time expert who set me straight on these, so the identifications are confirmed. Row 3: Left: SG19d, 4-Pence Blue with Sideways Watermark, Right: SG19, 4-Pence Deep Blue (according to Richard, this is not an SG19b, Slate Blue) So, I learned a lot from corresponding with Richard about correctly identifying these 4-Pence issues. I was pleased that at least I did correctly make the distinction between the Perkins Bacon printings (SG2, SG4, and SG6 varieties) and the later De La Rue printings (SG19 varieties).
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Dec 6, 2020 13:44:38 GMT
Going by my experience of GB penny reds on paper more or less blued , I am going to challenge your second row ( possibly completely wrong of me , but...)
I would say that the first and third both show blueing with a hint of cameo of the figure of Hope . I find it hard to decide what is blueing on the Fourpence and what is simply the strong image showing through the paper , so you may refute my challenge.
You have obviously gone for good margins...... it is an unfortunate fact of buying a collection that I will have some with less than three margins ....... got the width but not the quality
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jan 29, 2021 23:26:27 GMT
After making a post a couple of weeks ago about Jon's ( blaamand ) COGH 1-Penny stamp in the World Number Ones thread, I said that I would provide more details on why I think his stamp is an SG18 (Sc12) rather than an Sc1 or SG1. In the composite images below, all of the stamps from my collection have been scanned at the same time, and I have added the images of Jon's stamp from photos that he has graciously provided to me. Top Row: It should be pretty clear that there is a big difference in color between the first two stamps, both shades of brick red, and the third stamp, which is Jon's. His stamp is a much deeper shade of red, and it lacks the brown-orange characteristic of brick red. Bottom Row: The backs of the stamps also show a clear difference. The first two show evidence of blueing, while the third one appears mainly white. Jon has told me that he can see some hints of blue on the back, but based on the deeply and slightly blued examples, there just isn't enough evidence of blueing to confirm its presence, in my opinion. Now, a comparison of Jon's stamp with like examples from my own collection. Top Row: Left, SG18 Deep Carmine Red, so-called 'Woolly' print; Right, Jon's stamp. Bottom Row: Left, SG18 Deep Carmine Red, brighter and clearer image than the first example; Right, SG18b Deep Brown Red. Color-wise, I don't see evidence of brown shades in Jon's stamp, so I think it is closest in color and clarity to the left stamp in the bottom row. In addition, another helpful indication to tell the difference between Perkins Bacon (1853-1858) and De La Rue (1863-1864) printings is to look at the cancellation on used examples. The Barred Oval Numeral Cancellations (BONCs) were first used on COGH stamps in 1863, so it happens that in general, a BONC on a triangle usually means that the stamp is printed by De La Rue. It is possible, of course, to find Perkins Bacon printings cancelled with BONCs, but in my experience, 90% of the time, it will be a DLR stamp. In the second composite image above, the first stamp has a faint BONC postmark on the lower right, and of course, Jon's stamp has a very prominent BONC postmark. So, based on the dark red color, lack of blueing on the back, and the presence of a BONC postmark, I think Jon's stamp is an SG18 (Sc12), 1-penny deep carmine-red, issued in 1863-1864. As always, comments and opinions are welcome!
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DK
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Posts: 1,269
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 30, 2021 22:38:10 GMT
Hi Team Although I specialize in the NZ Chalons, I also do collect classics from other parts of the Empire. As the NZ Chalon incorporates design elements from other contemporary stamp designs of the period, I also happen to have a small selection of the Chile 'Colon' issues. Alex ( vikingeck) mentioned earlier that it would be good to see some of the Chile PB printings to see the blueing effect with those. I only have the examples from the 2nd London printing from 1855, but there is some blueing seen with these. Cape of Good Hope SG1 & 2Chile SG17 - Scott8GB SG8 - showing lovely 'Cameo' effect Note re the Chile SG17 pair above. I purposely have not washed this used pair to tidy them up as, although they are a used pair they still retain much of their original gum, which is interesting to see. Dave
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 8, 2021 22:07:48 GMT
Greetings to all those interested in Cape of Good Hope! I apologize that I have not posted here in a while. It is not for lack of activity in the area, just lack of time. So, a couple of quick things.... First off, many thanks to DK for your great post. Those are some very nice triangles! Because Gibbons is generally the pre-eminent choice for organizing Cape triangles, and because they have chosen to make the deeply blued paper varieties SG1 and SG2, distinct from the less-blued paper varieties (SG3 and SG4), I know that these are not that easy to come by in sound condition with full margins. Yours look great, indeed! In fact, it may even be that your SG1 is actually an SG1a Deep Brick Red, as it doesn't look all that pale to me, but of course, it's hard to be sure from a scan without a side-by-side comparison. I have recently purchased a stamp that may enable me to make that comparison. When it arrives, I will try to do that. I also really like your contemporaneous Chile and GB issues also showing the blueing. I have seen examples of the GB before, but not the Chile. I will try to be more on the lookout for those in the future. The other reason I am making this post is to acknowledge that I need to correct the images and identifications for some of the examples previously posted in this thread, all to do with the blueing or alleged lack thereof. I will try to get a start on those tonight, and hopefully get them all fixed soon. Once those are done, I am looking forward to moving beyond the blueing and discussing a few other interesting points related to COGH triangles, such as tips on how to distinguish Perkins Bacon from De La Rue printings and more. Stay tuned!
Edit: Images for COGH SG4, SG6, and SG6a earlier in this thread have now been corrected. A couple more changes are still needed to get everything correct based on the latest information from a recognized expert in the field.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 9, 2021 22:33:48 GMT
Going by my experience of GB penny reds on paper more or less blued , I am going to challenge your second row ( possibly completely wrong of me , but...) I would say that the first and third both show blueing with a hint of cameo of the figure of Hope. I find it hard to decide what is blueing on the Fourpence and what is simply the strong image showing through the paper, so you may refute my challenge. OK, Alex, I am giving you a tag to call your attention to the fact that I have now revised all of my posts in this thread about 4-Pence Blue Cape Triangles based on the input from Richard Debney. As you will see when you look through the earlier posts, it turns out that neither you nor I had them all correct. But you were right about the 1st and 3rd stamps of the 2nd row in my earlier post.... they are varieties of SG4 on Slightly Blued Paper, rather than SG6 as I had thought, but they are the only two examples in the whole lot. I agree with your observation that it is " hard to decide what is blueing on the Fourpence and what is simply the strong image showing through the paper." I have also read in Stevenson that the transfer of blue ink from the printing process can also give the false impression of blueing on the back of some stamps. In the end, I am grateful at least to have ended up with sound copies of SG4 and SG4a, but ironically, those were both purchased as SG6 varieties, while a few of the others in the lot that are now confirmed as SG6 varieties, were purchased as varieties of SG4.... so it goes! Armed with Richard's input, I now know what to look for, and I can attest to the fact that about 90% of the sellers on eBay, Delcampe, and Hip Stamp don't have a clue as to what is blueing and what is not, so there are opportunities to find some bargains as well as to overpay for misidentified stamps.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jun 3, 2021 22:13:26 GMT
Cape of Good Hope, SG1-SG21 Triangle Issues Printed by Perkins Bacon and De La Rue Arranged on Hagner Stock PageI have had this group assembled for some weeks now, but I have decided that today is the day finally to post it. This has been my pandemic project over the past year. I have been studying the Cape "Triangulars" as the old-time philatelists called them, and I decided at first just to collect images, and then once I started to be able to see the differences for myself, I started to acquire some stamps. For me, this design ranks as one of the most beautiful in all of philately. My collection of triangles is not complete in all varieties, but it is as far as I intend to take it for the time being. I will keep browsing the online offerings, of course, and if something turns up at an affordable price.... well, never say never! I will make some additional posts about identification of printings, or I may end up putting that into a TSF Newsletter article at some point. If anyone else has any triangles to post, please do so, and if you are struggling to identify them, let's see what we can figure out! Page 1: Triangle Issues, 1853-1864Row 1: Header (reproduction, but as it appeared in album originally published c.1901-1910) Perkins Bacon Printings:Row 2: COGH, SG1-SG2 on Deeply Blued Paper Row 3: COGH, SG3, SG4, SG4a on Slightly Blued Paper Row 4: COGH, SG5a 1-Penny Rose, SG6 4-Pence Deep Blue, SG6a Blue on "White" Paper, SG7 6-Pence Pale Lilac Row 5: COGH, SG7b 6-Pence Deep Lilac, SG7c Slate Lilac, SG8 1-Shilling Yellow Green, SG8b Deep Dark Green Missing: SG5 Brick Red on Cream Paper, SG5b Deep Rose Red, and SG7d Slate Purple De La Rue Printings:Row 6: COGH, SG18 1-Penny Deep Carmine Red (Two Shades), SG18b Deep Brown Red Row 7: COGH, SG19 4-Pence Deep Blue, SG19a Blue, SG19d with Sideways Wmk. Row 8: COGH, SG20 6-Pence Bright Mauve, SG21 1-Shilling Emerald Green Missing: SG18c Brownish Red, SG19b Slate Blue, SG19c Steel Blue, SG21a Pale Emerald Green, SG22 1-Penny Deep Carmine Red Wmk. Crown & CC Just for reference, SG9-SG12 are unofficially rouletted versions of Perkins Bacon printings and SG13-SG14 are the so-called "Woodblock" issues printed by Saul Solomon & Co. in Cape Town. Catalogue values are very high for these, and availability seems low, so I have not pursued them. I have also not listed the sideways watermark varieties in the "missing" sections, as they exist for virtually all of these stamps. I have managed to come upon one along the way, but I have seen relatively few others on offer.
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,610
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jun 3, 2021 23:43:49 GMT
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banknoteguy
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Posts: 287
What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Oct 5, 2021 23:14:08 GMT
How do you tell apart the COGH triangles? I have my only one labeled as SG6. Am I correct? Scan below:
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 5, 2021 23:44:25 GMT
Hi, banknoteguy: That’s a nice pair of scans; thanks for those. In my opinion, yours looks like an SG6 or SG6a, depending on whether it is deep blue or just blue, which is pretty subjective. There are ways to tell the Perkins Bacon from the De La Rue printings, but it is late here now, but I can post more tomorrow. If you are interested, please check out the Cape of Good Hope: Stamps thread over on the Africa board. There is some good info there to get you started. More tomorrow!
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 6, 2021 21:01:33 GMT
Hi again, Jack ( banknoteguy ): Thanks again for the post of your lone Cape Triangle. This thread has been lacking for activity for a while now, as these stamps are not really mainstream items. Due to their catalogue values, they don't usually show up in basic worldwide collections or mixed lots. If they are there, then they generally get cherry-picked out! Please have a look at my post from June that is now just two before yours in this thread. This shows the best of my Cape Triangles collection, and the issues from the two printers have been correctly identified, which has been confirmed by a 50-year specialist in the field. When identifying the Cape Triangles, the first thing is to make sure that you have a genuine one, rather than one of the fairly prolific forgeries that exist. For the most part, with a bit of practice, the forgeries can be readily spotted, as they lack the detail of the genuine stamps. The genuine ones are truly works of art, especially when you have a high-resolution scan like yours, that shows all of the amazing detail on these beauties. Once you have determined that your stamp is genuine, the next challenge is figuring out if it is a Perkins Bacon printing, 1853-1858, or a later De La Rue printing, 1863-1864. The dies used for the printings were the same ones, but there are generally discernible differences between the two. Personally, I find it to be a combination of color and clarity that makes it possible to tell one from the other. Postmarks can also provide a clue, although they are not definitive, just indicative. In the case of your stamp, the detail of the impression is excellent, which points to an early printing, i.e., Perkins Bacon (PB). The color is also consistent with other PB Cape Triangles. In addition, your stamp has been cancelled with the classic COGH triangular obliterator, which was used on almost all of the early stamps. I think yours is correctly identified as an SG6, which is, by the way, the most commonly encountered Cape Triangle. I almost forgot to mention that the scan of the reverse shows whitish-cream-colored paper, with no sign of bluing, which indicates that it would not be considered as an SG2 on deeply blued paper or an SG4 on slightly blued paper. Scans of the backs are needed for positive identification of these stamps, so thanks for supplying that, too. For examples on blued paper, please have a look earlier in this thread, as there are numerous examples. Thanks again for your post.
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banknoteguy
Member
Posts: 287
What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Oct 7, 2021 0:06:53 GMT
Well. Nice thread. I scanned through all the posts. Some nice detailed scans of the DLR vs PB printings. I am not sure how many more I will acquire but probably a few so I have one each of the major types. I will make an album page for them.
I don't really collect these but they are interesting.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 7, 2021 10:41:04 GMT
When I was a young schoolboy collector , two philatelic goals were challenges on my horizon …. Possibly just about financially achievable but demanding several weeks of pocket money plus a generous birthday supplement, so demanding a dedicated commitment……..a Penny black, and a Cape Triangle I saw as the ultimate height of desirability.
The penny black for 15/-… six weeks pocket money back in the 1950s I achieved for my 14th birthday. The triangles had to wait another 70+ years till my interest was rekindled on this Forum.
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,615
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Nov 14, 2021 1:54:09 GMT
Tonight I have been going through the current auction catalogue for Vance Auctions here in Canada and could not help but stop and look at the Cape of Good Hope offerings after seeing the recent impressive posts on this thread. I am not looking to add to my collection of this country but I thought those of you that specialize may like seeing this rare offering in this sale. www.vanceauctions.com/photo.asp?lot=1620&listed=0&URL=lotpages.asp There are some nice triangles offered as well. The nice thing about Vance Auctions is that there are no buyers premium.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 19, 2021 17:14:21 GMT
Today having successfully (well sort of successfully) negotiated a sale to a dealer I was tempted to splash out a bit more than I intended on these two covers . Sadly the Sixpence on cover ( 1862 SG 7 pale rose Lilac) which is scarcer than the other values has close cut issues top left The fourpenny 1860 SG 6 ( with a faint GRAAF REINET oval date stamp on the reverse) looked so pretty I just fell in love with her
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 19, 2021 21:06:43 GMT
Two beautiful Cape triangle covers, Alex ( vikingeck ), thanks for sharing! I like them both very much. I don't blame you in the least for falling in love with the 4-Pence cover. It is an excellent, full-margin copy of the stamp as well as quite a clear full strike of the small-size triangle obliterator cancel, which shows it to fullest advantage. I also really like the 6-Pence cover, despite the little margin issue in the one area. Congratulations on adding these two beauties to your collection!
Edit: By the way, Alex ( vikingeck), I am curious to know if the area under the triangular obliterator cancel that has turned the blue paper to white, is an example of iron gall ink effect? Are you able to comment by any chance? To my eye, the appearance looks somewhat similar to the issue with the writing on the cover shown by Aaron ( kasvik) some time ago....
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 19, 2021 22:42:03 GMT
Werner ( salentin ), I just wanted to mention that while I completely agree that the 1-penny Cape triangle shown in your last post looks certainly to be an SG18 variety (De Le Rue printing), I think that the 4-pence blue is probably not an SG19, and much more likely an SG6 or SG6a (assuming that it is not on blued paper). The DLR printings are a different, darker colour of blue not found in the Perkins Bacon printings. I also have reason to believe that the DLR printings are much less common than PB ones, and I can show some evidence as to why I think that. More to follow....To finally deliver on my promise to Werner ( salentin ) and any other interested parties about Cape triangles ( vikingeck , michael , blaamand , de61 , stanley64 , classicalstamps ....) Alex recently referred to the Stevenson book about Cape triangles as the "Bible", and it is pretty much the case, as it is quite comprehensive in its scope and detail. As I mentioned several days ago in responding to Werner, the DLR printings of Cape triangles are far less common than the PB ones, and here are the numbers to support that claim: Table: Summary of Quantities of Cape Triangle Stamps of Each Denomination and Printing Excerpted from Stevenson, D. Alan. The Triangular Stamps of Cape of Good Hope, H.R. Harmer Ltd., 1950. If you take a look at this table, it is pretty easy to see the differences in quantities printed between PB and DLR. If we think about it in relative terms, and excluding the Woodblocks, we can say: - 1-Penny (1d.): PB 83%, DLR 17%
- 4-Pence (4d.): PB 85%, DLR 15%
- 6-Pence (6d.): PB 91%, DLR 9%
- 1-Shilling (1s.): PB 91%, DLR 9%
The numbers are pretty compelling, I think. In my experience looking on sales and auction sites like eBay, Delcampe, and Hip Stamp, there are many of the much more common PB issues misidentified as DLR ones. This seems to be the most frequent circumstance, and the numbers bear it out. In the cases of the 6d and 1s stamps, assuming that survival rates to present day are similar, the PB printings should be 10 times as plentiful as their DLR counterparts. It is no wonder that the DLR printings are less commonly found. Of course, the flip side of that coin is that, if you know how to tell the printings apart, you can get some good deals on DLR stamps that are misidentified as the more common PB issues.
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blaamand
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What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Nov 20, 2021 9:46:34 GMT
Thanks Chris, this is useful and interesting information. I was not aware the numbers were that skewed. What surprises me even more is the number of printings of the 'provisional' woodblocks - about 1 to 10 in comparison to DLR. Given the high cat value of these - and how seldom they are seen - I had expected the numbers issued to be even smaller in comparison to DLR than it actually is. Thanks for sharing !!
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Post by michael on Nov 20, 2021 10:21:11 GMT
Chris, used PB stamps might be more abundant but you cannot say the same about mint stamps. PB mints stamps are much scarer than De La Rue as reflected in the catalogue price. I wish my deep blue De La Rue stamp (cat £300) was misidentified and was actually a PB printing (cat £1,400)
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 20, 2021 10:30:04 GMT
Many thanks for your comments, Jon ( blaamand ). I admit also to being surprised at what I found out when I looked into this. I had also not imagined in my mind that there would be such a big difference in production numbers between the PB and DLR printings. And yes, the figures on the Woodblocks are also interesting. I suppose that when looking then at the relative catalogue values, it comes down to Vince's ( stanley64 ) point about scarcity versus rarity, i.e., that market demand will affect the catalogue value. Just as we discussed in the World Number Ones thread about GB #1 (Penny Black) versus Spain #1, the demand can sometimes play a big role in determining CV and market prices. Even though the Spain #1 is more rare, its CV is much lower than that of the Penny Black because the demand doesn't support a higher price/value. Back to the Cape triangles: catalogue values of PB and DLR printings don't really follow a clear trend, in my opinion. In some cases, the DLR ones are higher, but in other cases, not. I think that this may also have something to do with perception. Edited: Werner ( salentin ) pointed out that the Michel Catalogue considers the PB and DLR printings as varieties of the same major catalogue numbers, using minor numbering for them, since all the stamps were made from the same engraved plates. And I am also guessing that many collectors would be satisfied just to have an example of each of the four values in their collections. Believe it or not, that was my original goal: one of each.... ha! That didn't last long. Once I got started, I got lured by the siren's call, and you can see where I have ended up! These days, I feel that I can reliably tell the difference between PB and DLR printings more than 90% of the time. It took studying thousands of images on a daily basis for more than a year, but now I can pretty much just see it. I also got a couple of important pointers from a known expert in the field (Richard Debney), and that set me straight in a couple of areas of uncertainty, especially where the blueing comes in. Ironically, very few dealers and sellers of these stamps understand how to identify the slightly blued paper correctly. I have decided that I would like to write an article about how to tell the PB printings from DLR ones, which is why I have not posted more detail about that here. I am always happy to help with identification for anyone who posts images on TSF, of course, but I think that the subject is worthy of better documentation than what it has received up until now. I am still doing research to try to be sure that I know all of what's already been published before I go forward with my own.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 20, 2021 10:33:58 GMT
Chris, used PB stamps might be more abundant but you cannot say the same about mint stamps. PB mints stamps are much scarer than De La Rue as reflected in the catalogue price. I wish my deep blue De La Rue stamp (cat £300) was misidentified and was actually a PB printing (cat £1,400) Quite right, Michael. I was writing my follow-on post, which touches on this point a little, while you were writing yours. There is no doubt that mint PB triangles with full gum are very valuable indeed, generally much higher CV than their DLR cousins. Considering that it was a shortage of those same PB stamps that led to the local printing of the Woodblocks in the Cape Colony, I suppose it is not surprising that the vast majority of available stamps are used copies, rather than mint, which would be a good reason for the high catalogue values. The fact that the Cape Post Office ran out of the PB stamps and the local issues had to be printed is a special circumstance, I think, which has led to the higher CVs for the unused PB issues, despite the fact that they were produced in much larger quantities than the DLR stamps that came later.
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blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
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What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Nov 20, 2021 11:06:55 GMT
"I have decided that I would like to write an article about how to tell the PB printings from DLR ones, which is why I have not posted more detail about that here"
Please do Chris, you're the man to explain it all thoroughly and methodical - and make it more relevant than older references by introducing high quality actual scans. Looking forward to this!!
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Post by classicalstamps on Nov 20, 2021 15:12:15 GMT
The numbers are pretty compelling, I think. In my experience looking on sales and auction sites like eBay, Delcampe, and Hip Stamp, there are many of the much more common PB issues misidentified as DLR ones. This seems to be the most frequent circumstance, and the numbers bear it out. In the cases of the 6d and 1s stamps, assuming that survival rates to present day are similar, the PB printings should be 10 times as plentiful as their DLR counterparts. It is no wonder that the DLR printings are less commonly found. A good example of why having adequate information about a topic makes things much more interesting.
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 20, 2021 15:30:18 GMT
Thank you for your kind comment, Jon ( blaamand). Frankly speaking, it was you, Jens ( barbu), and Morten ( classicalstamps) who have inspired me in this regard. When I look at what you three have done with your custom album pages, I am truly in awe. It goes way beyond anything I ever imagined when I started collecting in the 1960s. I am also well aware that most of my stamp-related writing, which has appeared in the TSF Newsletter, has been what others have referred to as "fluff pieces", meaning not all that much real philatelic content. They are mostly about travel and history, with stamps more in a supporting role. I acknowledge that this is true, so it will be a departure (and a test!) for me to write a purely technical piece about the details of specific stamps. But I also admit that I have been hesitant to do it, mainly out of fear that others may claim to know more and that I don't have the credentials to support what I think I know. I suppose that the only way to really find out what is possible is for me to write the piece and put it out there and see what happens! I am a little nervous about that, but I think that the time has come for me to stop mulling it over and start doing it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained! Anyway, thanks again to you and the other Stamp Buddies, including René ( renden) and Torbjørn ( tobben63) for your support and confidence in me. I promise you that I will get there eventually!
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 20, 2021 15:36:29 GMT
( classicalstamps) said: Morten, I totally agree.... adequate info and resources are the gift that keeps giving: the more you explore, the more you find! And in this case, you have helped me very much with reference material, and for that, I will always be grateful. Thank you very much, indeed.
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,723
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Nov 20, 2021 16:22:48 GMT
You are there, Chris Beryllium Guy !! Do not underestimate yourself and btw I love to read your travels and do hope you will keep it up !! René
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