therealwesty
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Post by therealwesty on Jan 1, 2014 23:17:29 GMT
I received a Lighthouse 20-40x zoom microscope with LED lighting for Christmas and have put it to good use already! Was looking through my copies of #85 the Map Stamp of 1898 and have found a nice example of an engraver's slip on a retouch attempt. There is a pretty strong horizontal line running through most of the bottom cable/border pattern. The most obvious slip appears under 'EMPIRE' as there is a diagonal line running towards the centre of the cable off of the intended frame line. None of my other copies have the strong horizontal line, let alone the nice slip under EMPIRE. The stamp: The slip, particularly clear under EMPIRE.
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firstfrog2013
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What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jan 2, 2014 4:59:55 GMT
Nice find.I'll have to go through mine.You could start a small collection just on this one issue.There is at least one book devoted to this one(two) stamps.I have the discolored muddy waters and couple misplaced islands etc.
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I.L.S.
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I am in Clearfield, Pa. I love US Classic covers!
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Post by I.L.S. on Jan 2, 2014 8:09:50 GMT
That's pretty neat! Thank you.
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therealwesty
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Post by therealwesty on Jan 2, 2014 14:02:27 GMT
My 2013 Unitrade states that the muddy water variety is caused by oxidization, and isn't a true printing variety. The four colour options listed are lavender, grey, blue and deep blue in my book. That said I've 10 copies and they all appear to be just a little different in terms of shade.
The map stamp is among my favorites! The local stamp shop here in Kitchener has a book about the map stamp, I've been tempted to look into the book and perhaps start another specialized sub-collection for this issue in my Canada collection.
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firstfrog2013
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jan 2, 2014 14:12:46 GMT
That's what seems to happens to me.I started my perfins,straight edge admirals,excise and war tax,the cindys etc.I have many sub collections and they all want my dollar.
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therealwesty
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Post by therealwesty on Mar 10, 2014 16:52:14 GMT
Found another interesting plate variety in the lot of classic Canada I recently acquired from jamesw's auction. Not sure if it is a re-entry or just a really bad retouch. You can see the bottom cable appears pretty ragged, could be some doubling of the diagonal lines making up the design. There are also some markings in the text at the bottom of the stamp, visible through VASTER EMPIRE especially. The numeral boxes and the rest of the design, especially the top look pretty clean. Here's the image, stamp on the left is a normal for comparison. The stamp with the dodgy bottom cable is on the right, you can just make out the extended lines particularly through the middle of the stamp. Here's a close-up of the bottom cable and the lower left corner. You can see the cable design appears doubled, or at least out of alignment, and the lower left corner has some abnormal markings. The cable has a similar appearance all the way along the bottom. There are also some slightly lighter lines paralleling the V and a few vertical marks in the TE of VASTER. There are marking and inconsistencies through the entire bottom text that make it appear less clean and crisp than my other copies of this stamp. The scanner didn't really do these markings justice, but they are visible with the Lighthouse microscope. Anything above 1200dpi on my scanner doesn't seem to make any difference in the image clarity. So here's the 1200dpi scan; [Moderator note - image link broken and unretrievable]So what do you think? Is this a re-entry, or just a really badly done retouch? I compared my findings to the scans on Re-entries.com but none of them seem to match. Trimble does only list his favorite though, and mentions he will add a page for cable retouches. I hope that makes it up soon, as I now have two cable anomalies to compare!
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firstfrog2013
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Mar 10, 2014 17:25:54 GMT
I'm sure your looking at either re-touched or misplaced printings,There are literally hundreds of varieties with just misplaced red printing.If my memory serves correct most of the re-entries concern Canada Postage but that's only what Unitrade lists who since joining up with Scott has become less of a guide for specialized collector.I'll check Darnell when I locate where I stuck it.Nothing in Holmes.
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therealwesty
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Post by therealwesty on Mar 10, 2014 17:41:33 GMT
I think all of the examples on re-entries.com all draw attention to the text, either top or bottom, and/or the numeral boxes. I was strongly leaning towards this example being a retouch until I found the anomalies in the text along the bottom of the stamp. There is some extra ink going on within the bottom text, but sadly nothing really jumps out as an obvious doubling of the design. I can't rule out the possible of some doubling, but I can't rule out an over-inking, normal plate wear and tear, or another reason for the markings either.
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firstfrog2013
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Mar 10, 2014 18:06:53 GMT
O.K. Darnell only lists the re-entries but also lists something up your alley a thick paper variety.Great that you found these and glad they interest you.
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BC
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What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Mar 10, 2014 20:03:52 GMT
What are the specs on your scope ? I am in the market for a good one?
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therealwesty
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Post by therealwesty on Mar 10, 2014 21:50:13 GMT
BC, the scope is the Lighthouse kit offered on the Canada Post website here. It advertises 20x-40x magnification. I find that it will not focus at the wider zoom settings (closer to 20x) when used detached from the base, say if you are just setting the scope on an alblum page to examine a stamp. It does, however, focus very sharply in the ~25x-40x range off the base. If you are using the scope on the base with the slide, or by sticking a loose stamp into the slide holder it will focus throughout the full range of zoom. I find the built in LED provides adequate light to examine anything I've tried so far. Overall I am quite happy with it, especially considering the rather affordable price.
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Ryan
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What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Mar 14, 2014 19:48:58 GMT
This is the classic study on the 1898 Map Stamp, a 47-page booklet by Frederick Tomlinson. It has a lot of info in it but it's definitely "old school" - it uses text descriptions of the varieties, paired with fairly crude drawn embellishments on base photos of stamps. There are more recent plating studies with more detail, including a 4-volume set (one volume of which seems to me to be almost useless, as it deals with a plate that was never used for issued stamps). Ryan
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firstfrog2013
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Nov 17, 2016 15:57:22 GMT
One of intrest pulled from stock.#85 dot in 2 and guide dots ??
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stanley64
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What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Oct 15, 2019 7:04:29 GMT
This map stamp is a recent find from group lot won from on-line sale, Canada's 2¢ Imperial Penny Postage of 1898 (Scott No.85).
Canada's 2¢ Imperial Penny Postage of 1898 (Scott No.85)
Here are some additional images and description that might be useful in helping identify the plate details...
Left cable has the inner line retouched with a noticeable line "skip" above the left numeral box & just beneath Australia, heaving retouching along the bottom cable and a heavy notch mark beneath the X at the edge of the design itself.
Given some additional time with the loupe and Frederick Tomlinson's text "The Canadian map stamp of 1898", I think this stamp belongs to Plate 2 & Position 99.
Even though the author does not note the heavy notch mark beneath the X in XMAS, nor the separation of the line above the left value tablet when comparing the Plate A island positions to other known copies, this is likely from Plates 2A, Position 99, but it is open and requires confirmation...
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Oct 23, 2019 9:40:47 GMT
From my collection of Canada's Imperial Penny Postage or map stamps (Scott No.86), although the squared circle cancel that originally tied it to its letter is indecipherable, the interesting bit is the re-touch to the lower-left hand side of the bottom cable.
1898 Imperial Penny Postage (Scott No.86) Perforation 12 x 12 & issued on 7 December, 1898 with printings by the American Bank Note Company, Ottawa.
close-up of retouch | re-entry
Even after a thorough reading of Frederick Tomlinson's classic study on the 1898 Map Stamp as shared earlier in the thread by Ryan , I can find no reference to this particular example...
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Oct 23, 2019 13:29:26 GMT
In today's post I received my own copy of the the Map Stamp (Scott No.86) of Black Plate 3, Red Plate A, Position 100 as the one posted by therealwesty at the beginning of this thread.
Canada Map Stamp (Scott No.86)
For the base cable re-touches on this black plate and specifically this position, note the extra lines beneath "EMPIRE" and the an extra line as part of the top-line re-touch running parallel just beneath the right-value tablet, along with retouches to the cable itself. As part of the red plate, there is extra island between islands 2 & 4 of the Pacific Island Group and a consistent dot above Yemen.
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Oct 25, 2019 9:23:09 GMT
Here is the latest addition to my plating endeavours of Canada's map stamp (85i); Plate 3A Position - 92.
In this stamp, the re-touches include a vertical line on the left-hand rope that extends up the left side and an additional horizontal line in the base rope across the length of the stamp's design. These lines meet and cross each other in the centre of the left cable curve. As well, there are a number of extended cuts in the cable's coils beneath the wording "WE HOLD" & "EMPIRE".
For distinctions found in Red Plate "A", note the extra island in the Pacific Island Group between Fiji, Tonga and the New Hebrides.
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 4, 2019 15:29:06 GMT
Whilst updating my custom pages of the map stamp and specifically provincial/town cancels entries, I discovered this cover and the stamp tied to it contains a significant re-touch to the base cable from Plate 5. Canada's Imperial Penny Postage (Scott No. 85/86) - Postmarked December 26, 1899 PM Yarmouth N.S. back receiving markings – boston, Mass. Dec. 28 1899, 10-am & Received ‘4’ in oval
Plate Position: Plates 5B, Position 96 (close-up) In this example of the cable base retouches from plate 5, one can see a single line retouch the extends slightly beyond the right-hand side cable. As well, there are several re-entries along the length of the bottom cable including a heavy spur clearly visible that extends beneath the cable immediately below the second of the inverted commas of "WE HOLD A VASTER EMPIRE THAN HAS BEEN".
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Nov 4, 2019 16:18:16 GMT
Here is your example of the SOLID line on the left rope of the stamp.
Here is an example of an early squared circle cancel...Jan. 17. 1899.. 22 days after release.
Here is an earlier cancel Dec.27,1898. 2 days after release.
These are nice, but nothing like my friend has...He has the largest and best collection of map stamp anywhere. Here is just one example...ERD of Dec. 7, 1898
Holding back on his name to protect his identity.. Be prepared to see a magnificent ERD cover..wow
Robert
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 5, 2019 8:12:15 GMT
Those are some nice cancels Robert ( WERT ) and I especially like the Bellevue squared circle.
The issue date though, based on my readings which include the R.B. Winmill text cited in other threads here on TSF, is listed as being 7 December, 1898 and should not be confused with the effective date of "Imperial Penny Postage", the new international rate that began on 25 December, 1898 and is why the stamp was issued. Still, some nice early issues, but show us a cover or stamp with a 6 December cancel - apparently they do exist!
Going back to the theme of the thread, your first image with the SOLID line is likely plate variety Plate 2A - Position 98. Not so much for the solid line you have pointed out, there are several examples for the last row of the sheet with cable re-touches and similar characteristics; rather, it is the projection you can see that extends at the bottom left-hand corner just outside the rope that would suggest this position. Not seeing the entire stamp it is difficult to say conclusively, but based on examples in Frederick Tomlinson's text referenced earlier on in this thread, we can be fairly certain...
Further reading - The Canadian Map Stamp of 1898
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 5, 2019 9:53:00 GMT
The 2¢ Imperial Penny Postage issues contains a myriad of retouches occurring in the cabling along the bottom and left|right-hand side of row of stamps 91 – 100. Here is another example from my own collection.
Canada's Impeerial Penny Postage (Scott No. 86) Plates 2A, Position 94
Here the base cable re-touches on the black plate include heavy cross marks beneath "HOLD A VASTER EMPIRE", both the right and left hand side cabling have been retouched about half-way up the edges and one long single line appears on the right to the end of the rope and the same line extends to the left ending in an upwards curve.
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Nov 7, 2019 14:48:11 GMT
That still needs to be proven...My friend who owns that Dec. 7 stamp has the worlds most extensive Map Stamp collection...If he does not have it. it probably does not exist. It is amazing what he has in his collection..I am jealous..hah
Robert
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Nov 7, 2019 15:00:37 GMT
We are not confusing the effective date..We all know that already and if anyone doesn't, better buy a Unitrade Catalouge... This is Earliest recorded date of the map stamp on cover..
Robert
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 7, 2019 16:35:42 GMT
All good Robert ( WERT ) and the collection does sound amazing! Agreed, re-reading the Winmill text, I note that the earlier cancellations are on the stamp only and not on cover; appreciate you keeping me honest...mea culpa
Kind regards, -Vince
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Nov 7, 2019 16:38:26 GMT
No problem Vince my friend...Now i have to look for any of my map stamp covers...Work is never done in this hobby eh..?
Robert
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Nov 7, 2019 16:54:13 GMT
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 7, 2019 17:37:33 GMT
Thanks for sharing Robert ( WERT ), this stamp and all of its re-entries and re-touches can provide hours of investigation...it is what makes the hobby!
A few observations from my side from what you posted, I like the S.Ste Marie M.C cancel, dots in the lower right hand side are from the last column of Plate 3, and the red plate is almost like a fingerprint; each map stamp, from the sheet of 100, is unique. Everything else you point out can be attributed to a specific plate and position - nice!
One of my early mentors, pointed out that a fair bit of work had been already down on the Pacific Islands Grouping i.e. the WinMill text and he suggested I focus some of my attention on the Indian Ocean Group on the other side; here is one example, note islands 1 & 2 drop and are virtually on the same longitude as islands 3 & 4.
Red Plate A - Position 10
At the same time, I have learned from you to look for things that should be there that are not as in this example, island number 2 is missing.
Red Plate A - Position 33
The "work" and/or enjoyment with this issue is never done...
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 9, 2019 8:41:58 GMT
Of the myriad of re-entries and retouches on this issue across the different plates, this has to be one of my favourites...
2¢ Imperial Penny Postage: Plate 1A, Position 3 re-entry
There is extensive doubling throughout the stamp, but the most obvious characteristics include marks in the top lettering (as seen in "Canada" & "Postage"), leftward extensions of the background hatch lines and marks in the "2" of the left value tablet, extensive doubling of the "2" in both value tablets and significant marks in almost all of the cabling around the stamp including into the left margin and the top right corner.
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Nov 9, 2019 20:05:16 GMT
stanley64 That is a beautiful re-entry. Have you sent it to Ralph at re-entries.com yet..?
Robert
He has one almost exactly like yours..see below..BUT send it to him.
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 10, 2019 18:31:17 GMT
stanley64 and WERT - Thanks for your interest in this Canada Map Stamp and multiple informative posts ! I enjoy René
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