rod222
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Post by rod222 on Jan 4, 2014 14:35:16 GMT
10 bar Diamond. Design: Used in the London Office for letters passing through the general Post. Inland Branch Cited in "The Postal Cancellations of London 1840-1890" H C Westley. Page 41 (Fig 90) Used in the late 1880's (we shall assume ours is 1887) Fig 90 is a mark used in the late 1880's but not recorded in the Post Office. Type include numbers 85 and 105 only (much smaller diamonds) Used on 1d QV embossed pre printed envelope (cat# unknown)  |
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Jan 4, 2014 14:48:58 GMT
Mutilated pre printed (embossed) envelope, QV 1/2d scarlet Cat# unknown. Beautiful "squared cirle" Postmark of Baldock Hertfordshire (Founded by the Knights Templar, but Iron Age activity in evidence) Baldock was a major Staging Post for traffic (inc mail) going North. GB led the world with lovely shaped Postmarks which fell into utter disgrace in modern times (Machins)  |
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Jan 24, 2014 9:32:25 GMT
Regular Issues. Squared Circle Postmarks. After 1920 CV rises to GBP 2.50 Type 135 Type 1 (1 arc) Pre 1902 : CV GBP 60p  Type 137 Type 3 (3 arcs) Pre 1902 : CV GBP 60p  |
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Jan 24, 2014 9:38:49 GMT
Type 143 D (Index in Gap) Pre 1902 CV : GBP 75p  |
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Post by irishjack on Sept 9, 2014 21:31:05 GMT
I was going to start a new thread but I noticed this one that rod222 begun so I will add to it.
I have begun working on the early Penny Reds and Two Pence Blues and having a bunch of fun looking up post marks so I thought I share.
In 1844, the Maltese Cross cancels were replaced by a new type of cancel the barred numeral obliterators, which allowed indication of the place of posting by means of the number allocated to the office. They were introduced in England and Wales on 1st of May 1844 and by June had be introduced to the rest of the British isles.
Along with a numbering system each region had its own design.
Ireland has a diamond, Scotland was in a square, both England and Wales an oval. The London Districts or Suburban cancel is an oval with the number in a circle. The last cancel is the London Inland Section which is an oval with the number in a diamond.
In the image you will see examples of each, by the type of cancel we can quickly determine where the postmark is from. But also from which post office.
The first cancel which is English/Welsh oval with the number 650 which tell us it is from Rochester, Kent.
The second cancel is a London Districts/Suburban cancel is an oval with the number in a circle the number is 8 and was cancelled in Tottenham.
The third is a strip of three with the Irish Diamond cancel the number 186 is Dublin.
The Two Pence Blue has the London Inland Section with the number 35 is Twickenham.
The last one is a Scottish rectangle From Aberdeen.
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tomiseksj
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Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Sept 10, 2014 0:39:36 GMT
Jack,
What is your source for identifying these cancels and is it available online?
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Sept 10, 2014 3:36:55 GMT
Bravo!
This is how a good forum operates ! (I like to think of it as a "Bank of knowledge")
Look how Londonbus and his cinderellas are located, and Vasia's excellent postings on Russian covers,
this is valuable stuff for the next generation, or current students.
Steve: I think I have images or *.pdf's covering these postmarks / cancellations, there also is an online source.
Give us some time to locate, and shall pass on.
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Post by irishjack on Sept 10, 2014 4:15:24 GMT
I been getting most of my information from The Great Britain Philatelic Society Here is a link www.gbps.org.uk/information/po-numbers/ to their site. The top right hand corner you can download a guide. They also have quick links on the left hand side. |
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Sept 11, 2014 5:26:26 GMT
Cant have a thread about British postmarks and cancels with out having the Maltese cross  |
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Post by irishjack on Oct 11, 2014 18:39:25 GMT
Belfast Maltese Cross on piece
Here is a close up
Here is the example of the Belfast Cross from The Maltese Cross Cancellations By R. C. Alcock & F. C. Holland
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Oct 12, 2014 6:43:55 GMT
Belfast Maltese Cross on piece Sorry Admin, I would have to debate that. It doesn't look like a Belfast Maltese to me. The loops heading towards the centre diamond should be straight and the opening just over 2mm. Of course, I'll stand corrected with further proof. Your example does not look correct either. Examples on cover are scarce. Dates known : Early 1843 to June 1844 Anybody else? |
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Oct 12, 2014 7:20:55 GMT
Rod I in bed but when I get up I will research further, almost certain that the cancel is the early Belfast in late 1842 they change to a different one. But don't quote me till I dig further.
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Post by classicalstamps on Oct 12, 2014 7:48:11 GMT
Here are some items for your reference library: The Postmarks of Great Britain and Ireland Part II. Section E - The Maltese Cross Cancellationsphilatelicsannex.org/reference/maltese_cross_postmarks.pdfThe Postmarks of the British Isles:archive.org/stream/cu31924030133536In addition, here is some inspiration for creating an album for this fascinating collecting area: (sadly not mine collection - found it in one of the other stamp forums - forgot the link) [Moderator edit - image link is broken and irretrievable] |
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Oct 12, 2014 8:09:22 GMT
Rod I in bed but when I get up I will research further, almost certain that the cancel is the early Belfast in late 1842 they change to a different one. But don't quote me till I dig further. I hope so, then we all lean something. I am in batting for a "London #1" Maltese Cross. The cover must have left Belfast, and transitted London before on going to Birmingham? I wish I knew more about packet routes, I would have thought it would have gone via Liverpool, but these were very early days. As far as my records go, I don't have a Belfast Maltese with dented sides, they are all flat, I'd be very interested to be proven incorrect. |
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Oct 12, 2014 8:26:14 GMT
Looking at classical stamps links, it tends to be similar to their "early" Belfast
Note 1: look at the right hand ray of the central diamond, it is very noticeably long,
yours could be similar (but upside down as your posted image)
If it is, could yours be an "Earliest Known use" ? being December 1841
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Post by irishjack on Oct 12, 2014 18:27:54 GMT
That would be from the collection of Chipg on SCF I belive it started with him thinking wouldn't it be cool to have a penny black with his intials and the rest his history.
I did a little playing around with the images.
What I noticed is that one of the inner crosses does not have a fishtail, this is circled in yellow. The blue circle I can notice the very tip of the diamond. The red circle I noticed a little ink on both
The Black and White image is from The Postmarks of Great Britain and Ireland Part II, it is dated May 12th 1842. My stamp is cancelled December 31st 1841, with this in mind and allowing for wear and tear ( would this not effect the cancel, the more times its hammered would this not cause the cancel to widen and take on NEW flaws and characters?)
Below is the two pages that refer to the Belfast Cross
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Oct 12, 2014 20:52:49 GMT
For the record.
"The Cancellations of the 1841 Penny Red"
Goldsmith / Danzig 1991
ISBN 0951706306
Do not appear to list any Belfast Maltese hammer with dented sides,
as shown by your "early" Belfast attested by others.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Oct 12, 2014 21:31:28 GMT
The more I look at this shard, the weirder it gets.
I am trying to reconcile the mutilated stationery, if we presume the Penny Red abided on the Right hand corner of the folded parchment,
then would that not indicate that the piece is "Backstamped" Belfast?
The corollory follows, why would you have both Belfast Maltese cancelling the stamp, and a Belfast CDS backstamped?
The cover would seem addressed to Birmingham, and perhaps the belfast strike is a transit, thereby suggesting the Maltese is from another County / town.
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Oct 12, 2014 22:36:28 GMT
The more I look at this shard, the weirder it gets. I am trying to reconcile the mutilated stationery, if we presume the Penny Red abided on the Right hand corner of the folded parchment, then would that not indicate that the piece is "Backstamped" Belfast? The corollory follows, why would you have both Belfast Maltese cancelling the stamp, and a Belfast CDS backstamped? The cover would seem addressed to Birmingham, and perhaps the belfast strike is a transit, thereby suggesting the Maltese is from another County / town. Without having the entire cover we will always have questions. I took a look on eBay at covers with Maltese Crosses and quite a few have both the post office that the letter was sent from and the receiving office Cancels Have both cancels on the back of the cover. Was the cover sent from somewhere else and Belfast is a transit strike? possible. |
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Oct 13, 2014 6:31:57 GMT
rod222 I shall be keeping my eyes for another early Belfast cover. The joys that other peoples scraps of paper bring to me. I have been finding my journey with early GB postmarks and cancels a rather interesting.
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Nov 7, 2014 21:29:15 GMT
Today I picked up this lady The Brunswick star cancel Another image using retroveal |
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Nov 7, 2014 22:36:43 GMT
Today I picked up this lady The Brunswick star cancel Beautiful Jack! It is a type Va (5a) In use 5/9/1865 to December 1865 (Edinburgh =131) For the record and future reference Number 320 = Tain If the star had no "stars" incorporated in the design, it would be a rare Type V (In use only 4 days) |
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Nov 8, 2014 3:29:42 GMT
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cjd
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Post by cjd on Jan 17, 2015 6:06:14 GMT
Well, here is nice and ornate Brunswick star,  but here is a rather more sedate example:  For those of us that are reading along but not really studying these, 131 is assigned by Edinburgh, Scotland, and there are at least seven major types of Brunswick stars issued over the years. Now, as a palate cleanser, what do we make of this? Does it really belong in a thread of GB postmarks?  Gibbons issues numbers to GB stamps used abroad, so I'll have to look up this one. |
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Post by tallanent on Feb 18, 2015 22:08:40 GMT
A few real world examples of the Malta A25 strikes as I think real impressions are always better than illustrations where possible ...   The above is type Z4 The shown date on this strip is 5 November 1856 ... however the 6 is in fact an inverted 9 so the year is really 1859 From September 1857 to February 1859 Malta was using the 'M' cancellation period of use known for the inverted numeral in the year = 30 September to 5 November 1859  Type Z5 with the thicker bars  Later type with upright oval with numeral Allan |
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Post by irishjack on Feb 23, 2015 21:27:59 GMT
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Post by tallanent on Feb 23, 2015 21:39:46 GMT
This one always interests me 
I think this is the British Army Post Office rather than just British Post Office Note the larger arcs / blocks before and after Constantinople and higher starting point for the place name For comparrison - the types shown below  Larger blocks / Arcs  Smaller blocks / Arcs Allan
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Post by irishjack on Feb 23, 2015 21:46:46 GMT
Always nice to see it on piece, I notice that my example has a + above the date and your example has letters, any ideal for this? Different barracks perhaps.
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Post by tallanent on Feb 23, 2015 21:59:18 GMT
The codes at the top that I have recorded are +, A, B
These may be to identify different handstamps that were all very similar or may just be a code used on a daily / weekly basis or assigned to a specific clerk
No real way of knowing
The period of use I have confirmed is 7 October 1919 to 16 June 1920
However, earlier dates must exist as the Army Post Office was opened up for civilian use on the 4 February 1919
Hope this helps .... Allan
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Mar 26, 2015 5:01:19 GMT
tallanentHi Allan, I have another Glasgow Pmk missing from your database, South Eastern D.O Glasgow. 12th February 1912 Cheers
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