rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Oct 15, 2024 13:02:59 GMT
Hi Hugh I don't think a year is placed on these Hugh ? here is page 50 with the SELB postmark. (Lot 402) We shall need a Bavarian specialist to advise on these strikes. Looks like we can only go by the usage dates of the stamp issues (same with the basically mute Millwheel strikes)
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Oct 15, 2024 13:17:32 GMT
Hugh Perhaps the envelope is an otherwise German issue, or private. The only envelope tresses I have for Bavaria, are .......
Rosace (First Used 1859) a circular ornamental architectural member that is usually a panel enclosing a richly sculptured rosette (Tress)
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Post by gstamps on Oct 15, 2024 13:34:28 GMT
Hugh, you can use the "Postmark database" from the site "stampsx.com" I found something similar:
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Hugh
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What I collect: Worldwide Occupation Stamps and Postal History; and, anything that looks interesting.
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Post by Hugh on Oct 18, 2024 12:15:01 GMT
Here's a nice Bavarian cover sent on October 4, 1844 from München [Muinch] to Nürnberg [Nuremberg]. It arrived the next day, October 5, 1844. Very nice receiving and arrival handstamps on front and back in black ink. The postal rate is handwritten on the cover ... 8. Would that be 8 Bavarian (South German) pfenning or 8 heller? The distance between the cities was just over 150KM. I bought it not only for the postmarks but also because it's another example of really nice and intricate letter folding. It has a red wax seal with an 'S' and with a clean break. It's also written in what I find to be a beautiful but challenging hand - cursiva with a lot of descenders.
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Nov 5, 2024 4:05:16 GMT
This evening, I'm puzzling my way through another Bavarian Cover. A tiny letter being sent to Gefrees -- a town about 20KM north of Bayreuth. At first glance it looks like it was posted from Bayreuth. There is a well struck half-circle postmark from Bayreuth dated October 11. In the upper right corner there is a 3kr Bavarian Stamp. It's rose coloured and was issued on October 1, 1862 (Mi.Nr. 9). Use of the stamp was allowed until December 31, 1869. So the cover was mailed sometime during that period. So far, so good. But, the stamp has been obliterated with a Mill-Wheel cancel with a very legible '37' ... 37, according to my sources, is the number assigned to Buchloe in the south of Bavaria. Bayreuth's number is 23. So, unless my source is wrong, what gives? On the back, there are two more postmarks. One looks like the arrival cancel for Gefrees - a single ring cancel also dated October 11. .The other one is another half-circle cancel also dated on October 11. It reads MKT.SCHORGAST. [Edit: Marktschorgast ... thanks franoise ] The Schorgast River is near Gefrees. I assume, therefore, it's a transit stamp that was applied as the cover got close to the destinateion. [Edit: Yes, it would have travelled 20 KM north from Bayreuth to Marktschorgast, then 6KM east to Gefrees]The 3Kr rate make sense and arriving on the same day it was posted makes sense. And, the Gefrees arrival cancels on the back make sense. But, I'm puzzeled by the postmarks on the front. Did this cover originate in Buchloe and travel ~250KM north to Gefrees via Bayreuth where the half-circle cancel was applied? Or Did it originate in Bayreuth and travel 20KM north to Gefrees ... and somehow an incorrect numbered cancel was used on the stamp? Or, is my information incorrect and 37 is OK and was indeed used in Bayreuth? [Edit: Yes, Bayreuth's number was 23 until 1856, then it changed to 37. Thanks franoise and rod222 ]I'm probably overthinking this ... any corrections or suggestion are welcome.
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Post by franoise on Nov 5, 2024 5:28:51 GMT
MKT SCHORGAST : Marktschorgast And 37 is correct for Bayreuth
(from stampsX.com)
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Nov 5, 2024 5:32:05 GMT
Hi Hugh You are correct, BUT, those Millwheels you have are only valid till 1856 (Bayreuth was then Numeral 23) Bavaria - mill wheel stamp, 1st distribution valid from August 1, 1850 to November 20, 1856 Source: Beck/Holzschuher: The Bavarian mill wheel stamps, Munich 1911 All information is provided without guarantee - this wealth of data contains typographical errors cannot be ruled out despite all care. Stamps used from the beginning (August 1, 1850). 1 Abensberg 2 Aibling 3 Aichach 4 Allersberg 5 Alsenz 6 Altdorf 7 Altötting 8 Amberg 9 Amorbach 10 Ampfing 11 Annweiler 12 Ansbach 13 Arnstein 14 Aschaffenburg 15 Au near Landshut (Lower Bavaria) 16 Au near Munich (Upper Bavaria) 17 Aug 18 Augsburg 19 Baiersdorf20 Bamberg 21 Baunach 22 Bayerdiessen (now Diessen) 23 Bayreuth 24 Beilgries 25 Benediktbeuren 26 Berching 27 Berchtesgaden 28 mountain zabern 29 Berneck 30 Bischofsheim 31 blown box 32 Bobingen 33 Böhl 34 Breitengüssbach 35 Bruchmühlbach 36 Brückenau 37 Buchloe
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 5, 2024 5:38:21 GMT
1850, numerals 3 kr. blue, plate 4, tied with open mill wheel stamp “37”, semicircle additional stamp “BAYREUTH 24 4 IX” on embossed decorative envelope with additional blue ink frame, addressed to Fürth, original stamp, really used, for Includes envelope. Cut with full to wide margins on all sides. Color fresh and fine, immaculate condition, not repaired. Postage-correctly franked letter for the 1st Distance zone, decorative whole piece!, photo report Stegmüller BPP.
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Hugh
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What I collect: Worldwide Occupation Stamps and Postal History; and, anything that looks interesting.
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Post by Hugh on Nov 5, 2024 11:31:07 GMT
Hi Hugh You are correct, BUT, those Millwheels you have are only valid till 1856 (Bayreuth was then Numeral 23) Bavaria - mill wheel stamp, 1st distribution valid from August 1, 1850 to November 20, 1856 Source: Beck/Holzschuher: The Bavarian mill wheel stamps, Munich 1911 All information is provided without guarantee - this wealth of data contains typographical errors cannot be ruled out despite all care. franoise rod222 ... Thanks. I knew that new numbers were added but I didn't realize that the older assigned numbers could change. I'll update my records.
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rod222
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Posts: 11,059
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 5, 2024 12:10:19 GMT
Guessing the code of StampX chart
gMR = Gear MillWheel Ring ?
oMR = Open Millwheel Ring ?
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JeffS
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What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Nov 5, 2024 13:01:30 GMT
rod222 regarding that lovely cover from Bavaria, I’m confused. This seem to be a highly franked item for a letter to Furth, that and the endorsement to Angleterre, England.
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JeffS
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What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Nov 5, 2024 13:08:55 GMT
franoise thank you for the post about the Numeral cog cancels. I always found them interesting but knew nothing about their use or distribution.
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Post by franoise on Nov 5, 2024 14:29:10 GMT
Guessing the code of StampX chart gMR = Gear MillWheel Ring ? oMR = Open Millwheel Ring ? gMR = geschlossene Mühlrad (closed mill wheel) oMR = offene Mühlrad (open mill wheel)
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rod222
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Posts: 11,059
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 5, 2024 22:15:44 GMT
rod222 regarding that lovely cover from Bavaria, I’m confused. This seem to be a highly franked item for a letter to Furth, that and the endorsement to Angleterre, England. JeffSUnable to assist, sadly, postal rates are a constant chasm for early philately, for me, (lack of literature) The cover is, however addressed to someone of high rank, possibly, at the "Claremont Chateau / palace" in Esher Surry, England 1850 wiki Queen Victoria was a frequent visitor to Claremont—both as a child and later as an adult—when Leopold, her doting uncle, lent her the house. She, in turn, lent the house to the exiled French King and Queen, Louis-Philippe and Marie-Amelie (the parents-in-law of Leopold I of Belgium), after the Revolutions of 1848. The exiled King died at Claremont in 1850.
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hrdoktorx
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Post by hrdoktorx on Nov 15, 2024 19:17:55 GMT
Another nice new addition to my collection, the Bayern 6 kreuzer blue, MiNr. 10, from 1861:
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hrdoktorx
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What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Nov 16, 2024 8:33:06 GMT
Accompanying the previous arrival, this MiNr. 13 specimen, 18 kr. red, from 1861:
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