semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 5, 2024 8:02:53 GMT
Merci à gstamps , quelqu'un qui l'a contacté au sujet d'un anneau-lune #140. Il m'a gentiment relayé mon adresse et j'ai reçu aujourd'hui ce très bel exemplaire ! Je ne peux pas déterminer le type à cause des parties oblitérées qui ressemblent à un IIIB, mais d'autres traits sont alors erronés. Néanmoins un très bel exemple (regardez sous le dos de la main !!!) une surprise par la poste !![](https://i.ibb.co/4mfVJ9J/A-3.jpg) Hello ! Yes it is IIIB These "anneau-lune" are due to interposition of the paper coming from one perforation under the sheet during printing : it is the same machine for printing and perforation with rotary priniting (always III B)
![](https://i.ibb.co/prqXVh6/Lune-140-IIIB.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 5, 2024 11:30:41 GMT
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 5, 2024 11:36:32 GMT
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,799
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 5, 2024 14:07:48 GMT
Hello ! here you can see one nice forgery (faux de Nice) in reality from Marseille !
![](https://i.ibb.co/7vg71Nh/neuf.jpg) I have Gethin's book and this does show most of forgery the traits! Only the final "E" in REPUBLIQUE differs ('foot' of E absent) Thank you for showing!!
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Post by gstamps on May 5, 2024 14:14:58 GMT
Bonjour Frederic, semeuse13An expert in Semeuse type stamps was needed and your answers confirm that he has appeared. I only have YT 2018 and often I can't find the information I'm interested in. X paper - according to the definition at the beginning of the catalog - bright white with diagonally striped gum. Is this stamp on X paper? ![](https://i.ibb.co/zVvdN8F/S10-horz.jpg) I did not find in YT what the booklet sheets look like where there is a vertical pair (IA and IC). I found it on "semeuse.com" and I understand that type IA is found in "case 13" on booklet 1, 3 and 5. Correct? ![](https://i.ibb.co/gWqyvzM/F-2.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 5, 2024 14:55:00 GMT
Bonjour Frederic, semeuse13 An expert in Semeuse type stamps was needed and your answers confirm that he has appeared. I only have YT 2018 and often I can't find the information I'm interested in. X paper - according to the definition at the beginning of the catalog - bright white with diagonally striped gum. Is this stamp on X paper? ![](https://i.ibb.co/zVvdN8F/S10-horz.jpg) I did not find in YT what the booklet sheets look like where there is a vertical pair (IA and IC). I found it on "semeuse.com" and I understand that type IA is found in "case 13" on booklet 1, 3 and 5. Correct? ![](https://i.ibb.co/gWqyvzM/F-2.jpg) Yes gstamps for the case 13 ! Only 3 stamps in the sheet of 120, for 6 booklets. You show the only entire sheet known : marvelous ! And No for the 10 c. green : for me it's a type III that started in 1923 and the striated paper is type IB in 1922 Here you can see a 10 c. red on real X paper and the gum side is also really white : ![](https://i.ibb.co/rFdFbGM/722-001.jpg)
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Post by gstamps on May 5, 2024 15:37:37 GMT
semeuse13, thanks for the reply. From what I understand (and for me English is difficult to understand) it is striated gum no "striated paper" Are the diagonal marks on the face of the stamp embossing due to the pressure of applying the gum? And to make the confusion even greater, I found on "semeuse.com": ![](https://i.ibb.co/Dp3jJb1/Papier-X.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 8:03:19 GMT
Hi ! It's a pleasure to show you this first day cover and this fragment of our Semeuse : ![](https://i.ibb.co/CK00V3G/1er-jour1.jpg) ![](https://i.ibb.co/jggsVSm/1er-jour-S-nat.jpg) And the first known day of printing : ![](https://i.ibb.co/9tJk2z3/1903-04-01.png) But a few days before, they did "proofs" that were canceled : ![](https://i.ibb.co/G06VT1b/Annul-J1.jpg) ![](https://i.ibb.co/bFnG2g2/Annul-J2.jpg) 1903.03.26 is the very fist date !
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 11:28:50 GMT
Stunning date ! ![](https://i.ibb.co/pQfRkYW/130-1er-jour.jpg) but arrival mark on the back proves that the month of february was a mistake instead of april ! ![](https://i.ibb.co/mXV4GyK/130-1erjour.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 11:36:19 GMT
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 11:58:38 GMT
First day cover of the sower with ground : ![](https://i.ibb.co/JBbtrpH/1ers-jours.jpg)
But Minister had one 3 days before normal people ! ![](https://i.ibb.co/2ZzvxfX/134-du-10-avril.jpg) And the first day of 10 c. rate : ![](https://i.ibb.co/KFB28KB/1er-pj-16-04.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 15:03:23 GMT
First printing day of blue 25 c. type IA ![](https://i.ibb.co/p4n02H9/1907-04-17.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 15:05:55 GMT
First day of rotary printing in France, with the very first dated corner : ![](https://i.ibb.co/GH96Xpg/159-1er-jour.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 15:14:36 GMT
First known date for advertising in stamp margin in booklets = 1923.12.10 ![](https://i.ibb.co/kKndk08/dates-nicochret.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 15:26:15 GMT
First day of issue 10 c. red THIN Sower ![](https://i.ibb.co/K9Ry0vH/1er-jour-bloc-de-4.png)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 15:29:08 GMT
First printing date known for this stamp's sheet (missing upper block of 50) = 1907.03.08 ![](https://i.ibb.co/R26S13r/1907-03-08-Roumet-2022.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 15:47:14 GMT
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,799
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 9, 2024 16:06:12 GMT
These are wonderful! Could you explain the E +A, D+C. BR+BS? I thought the date was always at the bottom most pane, right corner?
A -top left B-top right C-middle left D-middloe right E-bottom left F-bottom right (and where the date is?
Or perhaps this is not always the case?
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 16:10:38 GMT
Here you can admire the only known sheet for booklets of this stamp (type IIA) but we don't know the year ! ![](https://i.ibb.co/hyhhxPG/137-carnets.jpg)
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,799
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 9, 2024 16:16:27 GMT
Do you know what caused the 'crumpled" appearance of the sheet? (just curious)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 16:21:45 GMT
These are wonderful! Could you explain the E +A, D+C. BR+BS? I thought the date was always at the bottom most pane, right corner? A -top left B-top right C-middle left D-middloe right E-bottom left F-bottom right (and where the date is? Or perhaps this is not always the case? Yes, date is always here (except coils stamps) Each cylinder is identified with 2 letters, often arbitrarily. 53 were used for this stamp 1926 to 1932 ! One cylinder printed 2 sheets of 100 stamps and each sheet as a dated corner that we can identify (not always easy) First picture = cylinder E+A : the dated corner named E is on the left, and the dated named A is on the right
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 16:23:29 GMT
Do you know what caused the 'crumpled" appearance of the sheet? (just curious) Yes : more than a century of life, exactly like us
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,799
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 9, 2024 16:39:17 GMT
Yes, date is always here (except coils stamps) Each cylinder is identified with 2 letters, often arbitrarily. 53 were used for this stamp 1926 to 1932 ! One cylinder printed 2 sheets of 100 stamps and each sheet as a dated corner that we can identify (not always easy) First picture = cylinder E+A : the dated corner named E is on the left, and the dated named A is on the right Yes : more than a century of life, exactly like us Are there traits to identify the cylinder? I can see the numbers of the dates differ slightly- or is there a mark somewhere? ah, exactly like us!
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 9, 2024 16:58:34 GMT
Yes and it's the real interest of dated corners collection Aspect and measures of the bottom + different sort of numbers allows to identify cylinders ![](https://i.ibb.co/xCXxBJS/199.png) coming from : De Vinck "L'impression des timbres français par les rotatives" + personnal update
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,799
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 9, 2024 17:16:50 GMT
thank you very much for this explanation! A quick search for De Vinck's work led me to THIS which was new to me and though it is focused ion the Mercury definitives, seems to have some very good information, although one section caught my eye resulting in yet another question...
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 10, 2024 15:04:09 GMT
One of my greatest pleasure : collecting dated corners ![](https://i.ibb.co/wR6jXbs/CD-1923.jpg) ![](https://i.ibb.co/9wkbksP/238-01.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 10, 2024 15:07:55 GMT
And I love such full sheets (here with pictures of Atelier de fabrication des timbres-poste ![](https://i.ibb.co/Q8WmRzM/129.jpg)
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 10, 2024 15:25:15 GMT
Here you can see 2 successive rotary sheets (see numbers at the bottom left) ![](https://i.ibb.co/hHbmhq2/278-A-1.jpg) ![](https://i.ibb.co/k5tdqF9/278-A-2.jpg) Printed during a single round of similar cylinders ![](https://i.ibb.co/pnvn6fT/cylindres.jpg) With the CHAMBON machine ![](https://i.ibb.co/xMWwFm7/rotative-1924.jpg)
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,799
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 10, 2024 16:01:12 GMT
the number in the gutter (milléseme)-I have typically taken this as the last digit of the year printed, which you sheets above would seem to confirm, but in the website that I linked to my reply to De Vinck whcih is about the Mercury series, it states that the number is indicative of the Chambon used for that print run.
Do you know for how long the number is the gutter was reference to year? and was there a period where the number could be the year or could be the press #?
I notice that if i scroll so that I can see the bottomof the first sheet and the top of the 2nd, it appears to be different shades?!?
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semeuse13
Member
Posts: 60
What I collect: Sower / Semeuse stamps
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Post by semeuse13 on May 10, 2024 17:13:15 GMT
The number 7 you see on these 2 sheets is the press number and it is so for all rotary sheets of 100 stamps (some exceptions exist without any number)
For sheets of 150 stamps, since 1891 ( I believe, until 1934) printed without rotary press, the gutter number is effectively the year. Day and month are on the bottom.
The 2 sorts of printing coexist
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