Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,676
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Post by Admin on Feb 23, 2021 22:00:50 GMT
skid, We will get a better look at your stamps if you crop away all of that unnecessary background.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Feb 23, 2021 22:12:14 GMT
Thanks Admin - I was just about to reply likewise. Skid, when asking us for our thoughts on a stamp please make sure that you present to us a scan of the stamp in question (1 stamp at a time) and crop away all of the extraneous empty space (like the black background in yours above) so that we have a very clear image of just the stamp (with a little black border!). Admin has blown up your image but it has lost its resolution so when you scan the item make sure that it is done at a high resolution - 600-1200 DPI. I have also produced an image from yours here: It is still a bit hard to tell so perhaps you could produce a much clearer scan for us to take a better look at this for comment. Initial looks it doesn't appear to be an overlap. Maybe it is an internal roulette - maybe it has had a margin added. Too difficult to tell at this stage. Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 5, 2021 2:47:13 GMT
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 5, 2021 4:44:46 GMT
Perfect Skid :-)
Those kinds of images are exactly what we need to a) appreciate and b) comment - on the stamp(s) in question.
Very well done.
Your SG8 above is lovely - barring the thin and the oxidation.
Not much can be done about that thin, but the oxidation can be heavily reduced. A wee bath in Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) and you will notice the black disappearing and the pale orange coming back! Wondrous stuff. Make sure that once the oxidation bath is complete that you then give the stamp a quick bath in clean water to remove any residual chemical.
You'll then possess a really amazing (frontally) looking SG8. After all, this hobby is 100% visual!
Well done once again, particularly in absorbing and acting upon the previous advice and criticism.
I am looking forward to seeing more of your collection :-)
Dave
PS Klaus Moller is a very well known collector, and expert, of the NZ Chalon and is a well respected member of the RPSNZ.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 5, 2021 6:53:52 GMT
For reference Skid, here is a nice SG14 that Jim ( jimbabwe) had cleaned up as it too was oxidized. Look at the result : Before :and after :Cheers Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 5, 2021 16:56:15 GMT
Thanks Dave. I will add more as I get time. PS. just found this nice informative site that is having information added now and then. Covers NZ stamps with some Chalon articles. link
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 6, 2021 4:58:36 GMT
How long should you leave the stamp in Hydrogen Peroxide (3%). I have read anywhere from 60 seconds to several days including TSF, even on the same website. There is also some discussion about it not being the "right" thing to do in terms of stamp collecting and that is may reduce the value of the stamp. What do you guys think?
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 6, 2021 20:14:42 GMT
Here is another SG8 1d dull orange Richardson white paper. Scanned at a higher resolution (Testing to see if it makes any difference). Is it a repair at the top back, glue, or a hinge.
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 6, 2021 21:10:21 GMT
Here is an interesting one. A 1d no watermark, white paper, imperforate, that is brown, but does not look oxidized. It could be an imperforate form of the p12.5 star watermark color change on page 165 of Odenweller, with the star hidden by the thin. Note the clear border of the next stamp at the bottom and the small amount of the next stamp at the top left, indicating it is not perforate stamp trimmed (unless the prefs were really badly aligned and the right hand side is a margin). Plating the stamp might rule out a margin, but not sure if that is possible with this stamp. There is a no watermark perf 12.5 (Odenweller177), but no mention of an imperforate. I wonder if the paper texture could be used to determine which stamp it is?
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 7, 2021 19:54:05 GMT
How long should you leave the stamp in Hydrogen Peroxide (3%). I have read anywhere from 60 seconds to several days including TSF, even on the same website. There is also some discussion about it not being the "right" thing to do in terms of stamp collecting and that is may reduce the value of the stamp. What do you guys think? Hi Skid I left this for a couple of days before answering as I wanted to give others a chance to respond first. As nobody has yet, I shall add my 2cents worth : I have absolutely no qualms about the use of Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) on stamps. All of the items I have treated with this are still in great shape today. And resplendent in their 'true' color. I have never had to leave them to soak for more than about 10-15mins. Just keep an eye on the stamp being soaked. You should be seeing results in minutes NOT days. I have never left any stamp to soak in it for days - that seems silly. I certainly do not use fresh HP3% new each time but agree that it does lose its mojo after a bit of time and usage. As to reducing its value - I would say the opposite. Look at the before and after example I show above. I know which one I would choose :-) In the end it is your decision Skid, as to whether you feel it right to use it or not. Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 7, 2021 20:01:17 GMT
Here is another SG8 1d dull orange Richardson white paper. Scanned at a higher resolution (Testing to see if it makes any difference). Is it a repair at the top back, glue, or a hinge. From what I see Skid, it appears to be remnants of old hinges. Give it a soak in a water only (Temperature up to you) bath. Anything like a hinge or gum remnant should soak off. Just remember that the stamp when wet is very much a fragile piece of wet paper. Handle with great care (spade tongs not pointed tongs imho) and allow to dry before flattening. Show us the result after. I believe the stamp around the top frameline is scuffed (on the front). Dave NB This stamp is also slightly oxidized.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 7, 2021 20:07:26 GMT
Here is an interesting one. A 1d no watermark, white paper, imperforate, that is brown, but does not look oxidized. It could be an imperforate form of the p12.5 star watermark color change on page 165 of Odenweller, with the star hidden by the thin. Note the clear border of the next stamp at the bottom and the small amount of the next stamp at the top left, indicating it is not perforate stamp trimmed (unless the prefs were really badly aligned and the right hand side is a margin). Plating the stamp might rule out a margin, but not sure if that is possible with this stamp. There is a no watermark perf 12.5 (Odenweller177), but no mention of an imperforate. I wonder if the paper texture could be used to determine which stamp it is? This would be a 'Provisional Imperf' aka 'Accidental Imperf' of the new color 1d Brown of 1871. Provisional imperfs were issued when the perforating machine was out of action, being repaired. The margins are great on 3 sides. Shame it doesnt have 4 good margins but nice all the same. I cannot see a wmk, it may be where the thinning is. It would be either no wmk / wmk star or wmk NZ. The first 2 types most likely. Nice one Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 7, 2021 20:10:20 GMT
Skid I forgot to say, too, that your new scanner is working perfectly. Well done
Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 14, 2021 2:32:56 GMT
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 14, 2021 2:38:21 GMT
Here is a better scan of the 6d with possible internal roulette
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 14, 2021 8:18:42 GMT
These are nice Mark. Well done on using the HP3% and showing us the results. Not difficult is it? Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 14, 2021 8:21:12 GMT
Here is a better scan of the 6d with possible internal roulette I am not convinced that this is an internal roulette - but an interesting line of some sort. Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 14, 2021 8:22:36 GMT
Noted an added margin at the top of this one. And probably some filled thins. A bold PB7 of Wellington. Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 16, 2021 4:31:05 GMT
An interesting 1d. It does not appear to have a watermark, but the color is very red. It also has a line through the face.
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 16, 2021 4:37:00 GMT
Another interesting 1d. Roulette on all sides.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 16, 2021 5:07:29 GMT
This is an NZ wmk Mark. SG97
The wmk is a bit hard to see :-) I shall look at the few reference example pictures I have to see if that scratch on the Queens face is a known plate position. Hopefully it is ! If I don't get it first hopefully one of the others looking in here will. Dave
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tomiseksj
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Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
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What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Apr 16, 2021 11:59:51 GMT
This is an NZ wmk Mark.... The wmk is a bit hard to see... Sometimes, processing the image in retroReveal will make a watermark more visible.
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 20, 2021 1:44:55 GMT
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 20, 2021 1:50:20 GMT
Dave's suggestion.
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murfz1
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: New Zealand Chalons and Associated Material
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Post by murfz1 on Apr 21, 2021 5:24:05 GMT
Thanks Andrew. This helps. Your website is great, but some of the scans are (understandably due to data limits) not clear enough for what i am trying to do. I would much appreciate a high resolution scan of the front and back of your certified block of 8 4d as well. I assume these "medium card stock" are on thick card typical of the Hausbergs and not thin card/thick paper like my 4d, confirmation would be appreciated. Skid I had a bit of time so I scanned a few items at 2400dpi and measured the different paper/card thicknesses with digital veneer. Lets Start with the 1855 London Proof 2d, Paper medium white wove unwatermarked paper with thickness was approximately 0.13mm. The 1864 Davies Proof of Plate I with advanced plate wear paper 2d Blue on very thick white wove unwatermarked paper with a thickness of approximately 0.16 mm. The 1884 Reprints that were intended for Presentation copies 1d, 2d and 6d shown are all printed on Large star watermarked paper with a thickness of approximately 0.09 mm. The 1906 Hausberg Printings I have measured the singles I have, the Pairs on the page below the 2d Blocks of (4),(8)x2 and (9) with the and the 4d Block of (8) shown, these are all on a unwatermarked medium card with a thickness of approximately 0.26 - 0.29 mm. block of (4) 2d block of (8) 2d form the damaged section Rows 15 & 16, No.1-4 block of (8) 2d form the damaged section Rows 15 & 16, No.5-8 block of (9) 2d The 4d block of (8) front and back scans Lastly the 1913 Jolliffe Reprints showing the Plates A & B from my copy of the "History of New Zealand Stamp" both these plates have a thickness of approximately 0.06 mm. Hope this helps. Andrew
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 21, 2021 16:39:18 GMT
The 4d block of (8) front and back scans Thanks Andrew. Much appreciated for all the scans and thickness measurements. The information available in different books is confusing and contradictory. Thanks for the 4d on card in particular. It does not have the poor printing that I see on my paper version of the 4d (and seen in Figure 17.18 of Odenweller 2009), which I guess is due to the rough texture of the paper used. I doubt that the Postal Department planned these for the Archives and it makes more sense that they were used for testing the printing before making the Hausburgs (as suggested by Ken Lynch). The literature suggests that 20 sheets were kept by the Postal Department and then they destroyed all but one sheet of each plate for the Archives. It would be interesting to know if the sheets kept in the archive are on card or paper and whether they have the poor printing. This might indicate whether there were two paper printings, one for the Postal Department and one for checking the printing. My guess is that the ones in the archive are on card and are the same as the 6 sent to Hausberg and were distributed to collectors. I will try to find out.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 22, 2021 4:59:25 GMT
Here are some 1d possible Pelure (I posted a couple of these before but with poor quality scans) ..... Dave suggested the first had a star watermark (on a poor scan, I will repost). However, holding up to the light does not show a star. Here was the original image you posted in which I said I could see a star wmk ! and here it is after I made it clearer to see : Here is the reposted image after Skid has cleaned it in HP3% and scanned at a better resolution : and here it is using Retroreveal : I still see a 'star' but to give credit to Skid it is very faint - making me wonder if somebody has tried to thin the paper to make it appear as 'Pelure'. Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 22, 2021 13:32:26 GMT
Thanks Dave. I agree, it looks like a star that has been thinned. Thanks for the Retroreveal.
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murfz1
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: New Zealand Chalons and Associated Material
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Post by murfz1 on Apr 26, 2021 13:22:38 GMT
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 28, 2021 5:12:58 GMT
I am not convinced by that Andrew. I am not familiar with this particular cancel, but to me, the spaces between the bars are wider on your example than the image on pg74 vol.3 would indicate! I will look thru' some books and see if I can get a better fit. Fingers crossed :-) Dave
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