skid
Member 
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Oct 12, 2024 19:38:11 GMT
Yes, those are mine. Note the ones that look like Hausburg reprints are actually some form of reproduction, probably photo copies.
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Oct 12, 2024 19:44:48 GMT
Some more reproductions and forgeries. Particularly note the 2d red in the forgery group  |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Oct 12, 2024 19:47:34 GMT
Some more reproductions (the tinfoil was used to test that a Jollife in the upper half of the sheet was a real re-print and not a photocopy)  |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Oct 12, 2024 20:05:29 GMT
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Oct 12, 2024 20:30:36 GMT
Cutting stamps out rather than using the perforations, particularly when misperforated makes sense. But what about stamps that are cut on some sides and perforated on other sides. Some times the cut is through the perforation, but sometimes the perforation is obviously used. Is there a theory on this, or was the stamp cut and the perforation just separated when soaked or something?  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Oct 12, 2024 22:43:35 GMT
Is there a theory on this, or was the stamp cut and the perforation just separated when soaked or something? IMHO the individual postmasters that received the faulty sheets decided on how they would separate them. Some took care to cut around them the best they good whilst others separated them as quickly and haphazardly as possible. Dave |
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xacs
Member
Posts: 92
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Post by xacs on Oct 13, 2024 7:41:56 GMT
Is there a theory on this, or was the stamp cut and the perforation just separated when soaked or something? IMHO the individual postmasters that received the faulty sheets decided on how they would separate them. Some took care to cut around them the best they good whilst others separated them as quickly and haphazardly as possible. Dave Was often the case also that individuals would purchase multiple stamps for use on correspondence. These could have been separated at office as a block or strip and then cut from this as needed for posting or alternatively a postmaster may have cut the stamps as a block for customer who then tore off along perfs as required. People would have been pretty familiar with cutting out their stamps, thats what they had been doing before. Some just may not have gone in for this "new fangled perforation thing". |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Oct 31, 2024 22:20:06 GMT
I am looking at my 2ds and trying to plate them to the damaged section of the plate II. Odenweller has a good description on pages 193-198 and the Jolliffe reprints are good, but in the final state. But I find it very difficult. There are differences before and after retouching and wear over time. There is also plate I to eliminate. Here is a group of 2ds that all look very similar. Any advice on how to plate them would be appreciated.  |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Oct 31, 2024 22:43:39 GMT
Plate I to put it in context. NZ watermark and star water mark  |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Nov 1, 2024 0:31:48 GMT
Here is a beautiful colour 2d, which I assume is a Richardson's deep ultramarine. I have included some others for comparison and a nice 1s which I assume is a Richardson's blue-green   |
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,978
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 1, 2024 10:36:22 GMT
Any advice on how to plate them would be appreciated.
Plating a single stamp has it challenges, but it can be done. For Canada’s Imperial Penny Postage, as shared here, the following method was used: 1. Identify any faults, clichés or errors noticeable on the given stamp 2. Compare to known larger sheets available, i.e. dealer’s stock, auction catalogues, etc. With lady luck on your side, you may find a match and the thrill of finding a pairing might just be worth the time and effort involved :-) This method is not going to work for the detection of plate faults that require 50x or even 25x magnification, but it will allow one to plate the ‘gross’ ones...
Have fun and happy collecting!
P.S. Viewing the stamp in gray-scale mode & removing the colour ‘noise’ may be helpful in the plating effort.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Nov 1, 2024 21:44:30 GMT
I am looking at my 2ds and trying to plate them to the damaged section of the plate II. Odenweller has a good description on pages 193-198 and the Jolliffe reprints are good, but in the final state. But I find it very difficult. There are differences before and after retouching and wear over time. There is also plate I to eliminate. Here is a group of 2ds that all look very similar. Any advice on how to plate them would be appreciated. For plating Plate II 2d's it is best to compare any you have to the Hausburg Reprint sheet that you have. The shades are different usually between the earlier Plate I stamps to the later Plate II. Of course the Plate II ones are only on the 'large star' paper & p12½. Any p13 or wmk NZ or no wmk are plate I. Retouching is usually reasonably obvious too. Experience in looking at these things regularly helps too  Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Nov 1, 2024 21:51:19 GMT
Here is a beautiful colour 2d, which I assume is a Richardson's deep ultramarine. I have included some others for comparison and a nice 1s which I assume is a Richardson's blue-green The 1st one there may be a little oxidized giving that 'blackish blue' look. What do you think? The 2nd on is on blue paper so is a 'Richardson' print SG5'. The last one on that line is SG16 Dull Emerald-green' from what I can see from the image supplied. EDIT - Actually, looking at the larger image by clicking on it, it may well be SG17 Blue-green - some of these issues are a sort of in-between color - perhaps you could put a known SG16 next to it and just show the two together. Dave |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Nov 8, 2024 18:58:26 GMT
Found a match R17 No 9. See the line on the E in Pence 
A mint version from grants large block  |
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,978
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 9, 2024 8:26:35 GMT
And there was much rejoicing; congratulations skid :-) Enjoy the eureka moment and until the next find... Have fun and happy collecting! -Vince P.S. Is there a website / text that records the known plate faults and their positions for these issues? |
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,978
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 9, 2024 9:55:14 GMT
The question of websites or texts that record known plate faults in the previous posting was not entirely rhetorical. Given this example of an 1862 New Zealand 2d Chalon,
I would be interested to know if the weak or broken frame line that can be seen on the upper left-hand side above the 'POS' of POSTAGE is a constant plate fault?
Any pointers or additional information is appreciated...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Nov 10, 2024 1:50:59 GMT
Well done Mark on finding a match to your plate II retouch plate position. Satisfying isn't it?  Stanley, I am not sure if that weakness in the frame line around 'POSTAGE' is a known constant or not. I have not seen anything in that regard written before. But my gut feel is that it is weak due to the plate wear on that 2d plate I example. It looks like SG38/39, so plate wear was quite advanced by then, in mid-late 1863/64. Others may have an opinion. Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Nov 10, 2024 1:56:31 GMT
P.S. Is there a website / text that records the known plate faults and their positions for these issues? I can only remember this website on that subject Stanley : re-entries.com linkDave |
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,978
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 10, 2024 18:21:04 GMT
Thanks DK (Dave) for the link and opine on the Chalon shared; both are appreciated :-) Looking at other stamps from the same era, both here in this thread and on-line, I can see that the weak or broken frame line is a fairly common occurrence of the later issues.
All in the name of philatelic fun... Have fun and happy collecting! |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Nov 12, 2024 6:45:44 GMT
A book on all of the known plate flaws, re-entries and other 'quirks' from printings of the 'Chalon' issues would be fantastic, I would be a buyer if one was to be produced.
Unfortunately, I will not be the author of it, but hopefully there is someone out there capable of such a feat. We can only hope.
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Nov 17, 2024 1:14:44 GMT
Fair WarningRoyal Philatelic Society of New Zealand7:30 pm Thursday November 21 2024 - Zoom Meeting
Mark Benvie – ' Cancels not often seen on Full Face Queens'Should be interesting! See you there Dave
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Nov 17, 2024 4:34:31 GMT
Fair WarningRoyal Philatelic Society of New Zealand7:30 pm Thursday November 21 2024 - Zoom Meeting
Mark Benvie – ' Cancels not often seen on Full Face Queens'Should be interesting! See you there Dave Thanks for the heads up Dave, should be well worth watching. |
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murfz1
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: New Zealand Chalons and Associated Material
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Post by murfz1 on Nov 19, 2024 1:28:32 GMT
Exciting news - Another new Chalon just received in with a PB13 obliterator: SG43 6d red-brown  and here it is alongside my other PB13 - notice how different they look to each other!  and here are two other PB13's I have images for in stock :   So what we know so far - Perkins Bacon of London sent to New Zealand in 1854, on board the 'Simlah' a printing press, ink, reams of 'large star' paper, glue (wash) and 36 brass and wooden obliterators along with the initial supply of stamps for the new Colony. The locals were to produce their own stamps from thence forward. The 36 brass and wooden obliterators were numbered 1 to 18 and there were two of each number. An 'A' and a 'B' example. Mainly, the pairs with the same numbers on them were slightly different to each other in the shape of the numbers. The one numbered '13' is 'believed' used at Rangitikei - current day 'Bulls'. It is not known for sure to this present day where the other '13' was used. I am not aware, personally, of any covers in existence that can act as a proving cover for where exactly these obliterators (numbered 13) were used exactly. Does anyone reading this have anything further to add to this story? I am not even sure which of the two '13's were actually ascribed to Rangitikei. Perhaps they both were, who knows! Interesting one! Dave Dave I have been absence for quite a while. It's interesting you now have found another PB 13 and two other images. Not a very common cancel. Regards Andrew |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Nov 19, 2024 7:54:28 GMT
Hey Andrew
How nice to have you back with us. We were wondering if you were ok.
Yes, it was a thrill to get that 6d brown with another '13' on it, in. Quite different to each other as you can see, although that is quite the norm with these PB pairs of numbers.
Anyway, how are you, and more to the point, Welcome back.
Dave
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murfz1
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: New Zealand Chalons and Associated Material
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Post by murfz1 on Nov 19, 2024 8:33:40 GMT
Dave yes good to be back in contact. Been getting my body back in shape for the last 2 years.......two replacement shoulders and now working through my dual total knee replacements, both at once.
8 weeks in and still struggling.
All the best and good find PB 13 now 5 known unless anyone else can produce the evidence. Still keen to find out more about actual used but without any cover proverdence might be a bit tricky.
Regards Andrew
PS will hook in to the meeting tomorrow night I am at presently in NZ , Paraparaumu.
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Nov 21, 2024 7:25:48 GMT
Dave yes good to be back in contact. Been getting my body back in shape for the last 2 years.......two replacement shoulders and now working through my dual total knee replacements, both at once. 8 weeks in and still struggling. All the best and good find PB 13 now 5 known unless anyone else can produce the evidence. Still keen to find out more about actual used but without any cover proverdence might be a bit tricky. Regards Andrew PS will hook in to the meeting tomorrow night I am at presently in NZ , Paraparaumu. Welcome back Andrew All the best for a speedy recovery Grant |
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