redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 7, 2024 7:41:15 GMT
I should add that the SG8 had a heavy hinge which I suspected might cover a thin. However, during the cleaning process the hinge soaked off and the stamp is perfect on the reverse. I don't think this stamp could be surpassed for a single used example.
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 7, 2024 15:41:55 GMT
Rather the opposite of the lovely detail of the Richardson prints, I have a couple of later Chalons that are extremely blurred. One collector told me these are "wet prints", which I presume means the paper was wet when the ink was applied? I only have a couple of these and was wondering how common they are? And, while not particularly attractive, why are these not listed as a variety?
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DK
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Post by DK on May 7, 2024 22:59:46 GMT
Yes. The printers did slightly dampen the paper before printing.
Sometimes the paper was a little too damp when the printing began and resulted in stamps as per your 2d blue (SG36) shown.
I have also noticed, particularly with the 1864 NZ wmk printed stamps, SG100 for example, that a lot of the 1/- greens are also slightly of the 'wet' look too - as per your 1/- green shown above.
Davies took over the printing of the Chalons in @ February of 1862. Perhaps in his first attempts in printing the 2d blue he learnt via trial & error how damp the paper should be, ideally, to produce good results.
These first attempts are reflected in SG36.
Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on May 7, 2024 23:27:11 GMT
NZ Chalons : Richardson SG10 V Davies SG36
However, Davies did improve slightly on his production quality as can be seen on later SG36 printings : SG36 pair :Of course, within 2 years of his contract commencing the 2d plate started to show signs of wear, and this wear got worse quite quickly during the course of 1864. Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on May 7, 2024 23:35:00 GMT
Here are 2 copies of Davies printings in the 1862-64 time period. The first one on 'Large Star' wmk paper and the second on 'NZ' wmk paper. Notice the rather 'wet' printing characteristics of the latter : Dave
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neilmac
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Post by neilmac on May 8, 2024 4:27:05 GMT
Yes. The printers did slightly dampen the paper before printing. Sometimes the paper was a little too damp when the printing began and resulted in stamps as per your 2d blue ( SG36) shown. I have also noticed, particularly with the 1864 NZ wmk printed stamps, SG100 for example, that a lot of the 1/- greens are also slightly of the 'wet' look too - as per your 1/- green shown above. Davies took over the printing of the Chalons in @ February of 1862. Perhaps in his first attempts in printing the 2d blue he learnt via trial & error how damp the paper should be, ideally, to produce good results. These first attempts are reflected in SG36. Dave I can't remember where I read it, but I remember one of the challenges for Davies was he didn't have access to a press that could compress the paper enough to reduce the water content of the paper. Maybe it was Tom Lee and John Watts book or Odenweller's - but can't remember. At Perkins, Bacon they would soak the paper in tubs but then press the paper in reams to reduce water content and then stack - at times needing to wet the edges again as they dried while waiting for printing. Sometimes they forgot or didn't do a good job and you can find 'dry' print copies of some stamps on the edges of sheets (not necessarily NZ stamps) where the ink didn't 'stick' at all so look faded. Let me look for that reference because maybe I misunderstood. Neil
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 8, 2024 17:06:40 GMT
Some interesting detail here on wet prints, appreciated.
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DK
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Post by DK on May 8, 2024 22:10:16 GMT
I can't remember where I read it, but I remember one of the challenges for Davies was he didn't have access to a press that could compress the paper enough to reduce the water content of the paper. Yes. That is an interesting line of thought Neil. Perkins Bacon did send out, with the initial supply of Postage Stamps, all the required items that would be needed to produce more labels locally. This included a 'Printing Press' for printing of the labels. But, if as you say, that Perkins Bacon also wet the paper in their printing process prior to printing using the 'Recess' method, and then had to squeeze the paper of excess moisture prior to printing, then how did they achieve this? There has never been any mention of a paper moisture press being sent for that purpose! Not that I have seen anyways. I always imagined that the paper may have been 'dampened' via a 'mist' sprayer on a per sheet basis and then the 'Printing Press' supplied by PB applied the pressure and transferred the ink onto a damp sheet of paper - but perhaps in my naivety I am wrong on this! I have never read previously how the 'dampening' process may have worked. Further research is needed. Dave
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Post by michael on May 9, 2024 6:31:42 GMT
Yes, Perkins Bacon used damp paper for their recess printing. A description of the process is found in an article "The Manufacture of Stamps" by Dunbar Heath, a paper read at the 2nd Philatelic Congress of Great Britain on 27 April 1910.
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 9, 2024 7:03:31 GMT
A lot of work! Thanks for this, michael
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DK
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Post by DK on May 9, 2024 22:36:41 GMT
Yes, Perkins Bacon used damp paper for their recess printing. A description of the process is found in an article "The Manufacture of Stamps" by Dunbar Heath, a paper read at the 2nd Philatelic Congress of Great Britain on 27 April 1910. Thanks Michael Very helpful in understanding how Perkins Bacon managed the 'Recess' method. And very interesting comments around the wetting of the paper prior to being printed upon : Quote So their 'ream' consisted of 1000 sheets! Unlike today where a ream is 500 sheets .... Anyway, they then wet the sheets by dipping the ream into a container of water, and then pressing said ream of 1000 sheets with a hydraulic press! I can only imagine a mess resulting from that method. Or, do they mean that each individual sheet of that 1000 sheet ream was wet first, then dried before use? I cannot image 'Richardson', who produced the best of the Chalon printings did that! He was a one man operation in his own small business, in a small back, poorly lit room. I seem to recall he needed blankets and a stone to produce his work! Davies on the other hand probably did as he was instructed, as he worked to order for the Government who were his employers! He also used the supplied PB printing press. Dave
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neilmac
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Post by neilmac on May 10, 2024 20:13:14 GMT
There is not a lot known about Richardson's approach. I wonder then if, because of his process, that maybe the Large Star paper wasn't conducive to being printed without being damp and allowing the paper fibres to mellow before accepting ink, and then closing again during drying? Maybe this is the reason for using other papers?
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Post by michael on May 10, 2024 20:51:11 GMT
I'm sure it's always been 500 sheets per ream, so I think this maybe an error. There is an interesting article in the London Philatelist, 1928, vol 37 by B. Goodfellow. You should be able to download it from the RPSL website. An extract:
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DK
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Post by DK on May 10, 2024 23:31:19 GMT
Thanks for that Michael. It seems that neilmac, Neil, is near the truth then when he said that : "I wonder then if, because of his process, (maybe the Large Star paper wasn't conducive to being printed without being damp and allowing the paper fibres to mellow before accepting ink, and then closing again during drying?), so that was the reason for using other papers". and your snippet from the London Philatelist, 1928, vol 37 by B. Goodfellow that : Richardson was not supplied a 'hydraulic press' as none had been sent out with the original supplies in 1854 by PB. And no instructions from PB as to how the 'star' paper should be treated! Richardson had a press of his own already, one he had sent out to him after receiving an inheritence. A 'double demy press' rings in my head (possibly not correct but that is my initial thought). Need to look that up. So Richardson trialed the 'star' paper on his own press and wasn't happy with the results, so found his own paper that did produce satisfactory results. Davies used the supplied government supplies which included the 'star' paper & the PB printing press. Davies had also been employed by PB and came highly recommended by them and therefore knew how PB went about their business printing in the 'Recess' method on 'star' paper - which included 'wetting' the paper prior to printing. A minor detail Richardson wasn't aware of! Thanks goodness for Richardson is my thought on this. His stamps are by far the best produced of the 3 printers used in printing 'Chalons' for this new colony. Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on May 10, 2024 23:52:25 GMT
Richardson did print a trial sheet or 2 on the 'star' paper as evidenced by the 'Castle Front' piece. This was sent to E.W Stafford in Auckland from his wife who was in Dunedin at the time. This letter was received at Auckland on JA 19 1857. The stamps are on 'star' paper and consists of 2 1d stamps in a pair in an orange shade. No other 1d stamps in an orange shade on 'star' paper was produced again until Davies in 1862! Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on May 11, 2024 0:05:37 GMT
A couple of fairly important snippets from Odenwellers book, Chapter 3 - The Richardson Prints - The Blue Paper Prints pp35-52 :
'When the 'Board to Consider Postage Stamps' sent its report to the Colonial Secretary on 1 June 1855, the report included a recommendation for further supplies of stamps. It stated As it is important that a continuous supply of stamps should be maintained and as difficulty exists in working the press here ...'
and
'There is but one person in the town competent to print the postage stamps. He can print them on a press of his own, without the necessity of setting up the press belonging to the government'.
and
'Nevertheless, all was not well. Richardson considered the effort in printing this first supply to have been so difficult that he requested an additional 1/- per 1,000 for a total of 4/- per 1,000 to do the work'.
It is clear that Richardson was able to dictate terms.
Dave
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JeffS
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Post by JeffS on May 11, 2024 1:22:55 GMT
A very interesting discussion
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neilmac
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Post by neilmac on May 11, 2024 1:43:26 GMT
Richardson did print a trial sheet or 2 on the 'star' paper as evidenced by the 'Castle Front' piece. This was sent to E.W Stafford in Auckland from his wife who was in Dunedin at the time. This letter was received at Auckland on JA 19 1857. The stamps are on 'star' paper and consists of 2 1d stamps in a pair in an orange shade. No other 1d stamps in an orange shade on 'star' paper was produced again until Davies in 1862! Dave Is that piece in your collection Dave?
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DK
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Post by DK on May 17, 2024 21:29:49 GMT
I wish, but sadly no :-) lol
These need to be found on cover or piece in reality, individual stamps off paper being impossible to tell from the Davies prints on 'large star' paper. SG33/34 etc
Dave
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on May 18, 2024 13:08:12 GMT
On 9th and 10th of May two quotes from michael refer to "reams" . The first to Ream of " 1000 sheets" , the second to "six reams ie 3000 sheets" which makes a each ream 500 sheets. Reference is also made in the first item to sheets " cut to size" for printing so is it possible it was a ream of 500 large size which had to be cut in half to provide the 1000 sheets for printing ? Incidentally the Internet refers to an earlier "Short Ream" of 480 sheets . In the good old pre-decimal days we British did tend to count in 12s or Dozens , eg eggs, bakery buns, pennies in the shilling . Stamps were printed in multiples of 12 , 240 to the sheet . For division into fractions Twelve is a more convenient number than 10 so maybe we should all have adopted a duodecimal system rather than decimal . Meantime this has turned up in a junior collection I have to sell for a neighbour. Large star watermark with Rough perfs which are hard to measure, but I believe 12 1/2 So I'm guessing SG 132a brown shade with some plate wear
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DK
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Post by DK on May 18, 2024 22:47:07 GMT
Meantime this has turned up in a junior collection I have to sell for a neighbour. Large star watermark with Rough perfs which are hard to measure, but I believe 12 1/2 So I'm guessing SG 132a brown shade with some plate wear Yes. SG132a is correct Alex The wear is considered 'extended' to 'advanced' in CP. Dave
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DK
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Post by DK on May 21, 2024 1:49:47 GMT
We have discussed fiscal usage of the Chalon previously in this thread. Here are 5 more examples of fiscal usage following the Stamp Act of 1866 : Won at the recently concluded Alan Craig Auction of Revenues by ACS Dave
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skid
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Post by skid on May 22, 2024 3:29:25 GMT
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DK
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Post by DK on May 22, 2024 3:42:52 GMT
A shame it is only a description of his exhibit.
No pictures of anything, which is disappointing especially as the title says "Display of New Zealand Chalon Heads by Marcel Stanley".
Are there any pictures anywhere of this Mark? Or is it just that document?
Dave
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gc
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Post by gc on May 22, 2024 5:54:09 GMT
We have discussed fiscal usage of the Chalon previously in this thread. Here are 5 more examples of fiscal usage following the Stamp Act of 1866 : Won at the recently concluded Alan Craig Auction of Revenues by ACS Dave Great set Dave, well done. I wonder if we will ever know if "GB" is somebodies' initials or Governors Bay ( as some have suggested ). Here is my full receipt again. Grant
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skid
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Post by skid on May 22, 2024 21:58:38 GMT
A shame it is only a description of his exhibit. No pictures of anything, which is disappointing especially as the title says "Display of New Zealand Chalon Heads by Marcel Stanley". Are there any pictures anywhere of this Mark? Or is it just that document? Dave I did not find any pictures, but that does not mean they don't exist.
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DK
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Post by DK on May 22, 2024 23:18:03 GMT
Yes.
His auction of NZ Chalons was in 1976 - auctioned by Robson Lowe of Pall Mall, London.
I need to track down the auction catalog as a brief look on the internet didn't turn up any pictures.
As you say, that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Dave
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Post by tundrawolf on May 23, 2024 8:00:19 GMT
Specimen overprints. Grant and I are accumulating images of specimen overprints on chalons with the aim of evaluating the relative scarcity of the different types on the various denominations and printings. The 3 main types are shown below, known as type A, B and C If anyone has examples they would be willing to share or knows anyone that may be able to help it would be much appreciated. Philip
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redkiwi
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Post by redkiwi on May 23, 2024 8:24:53 GMT
I can't quite make out this cancel on this SG128. Coromandel, perhaps?
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DK
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Post by DK on May 23, 2024 8:26:42 GMT
Hi Philip I don't believe I have any, I will double check that tomorrow though! So my first thought to assist was to think of Gerald Ellotts website, I remembered that he had an article on this subject, unfortunately that website is not found any longer! I will check my records shortly to see if I took a copy of it years ago, I seem to recall that I did, but I could be wrong. I need to check that. Other than that my thoughts go out to the pre-eminent Chalon collectors of the RPSNZ - people like Andrew Gould, Klaus Moller, gc & even Neil, neilmac, here on this forum. I will get back to you with Geralds article on these 'Specimen' overprints when/if I can track it down :-) Dave
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