DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 23, 2021 0:31:49 GMT
Just to prove that dealers are fallable - I just picked this nice item up recently for NZ$110. It was advertised as SG115 - its not!! It is SG96a Davies p13 2d blue on unwatermarked white paper. SG115 is cat at £225 SG96a is cat at £2000 ! Quite a difference - and SG96a is quite hard to find mint. I am well pleased (fist pump moment once it arrived for me to confirm my suspicion). Dave :-)
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murfz1
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: New Zealand Chalons and Associated Material
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Post by murfz1 on Jan 23, 2021 4:49:19 GMT
DK nice Sg96a - I have been away on holiday for a month and thought it was time to do a couple more posts. I have a nice PB.1 (Perkins Bacon) Obliterator in red 0n a 1859-61 6d Pale Brown other than a few "Paid" its all I have in unusual coloured cancellations.
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murfz1
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: New Zealand Chalons and Associated Material
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Post by murfz1 on Jan 23, 2021 5:14:22 GMT
Been buying up a few new cancellations over the last month and will post some groupings later when I have completed the pages. A couple of Numerals from Dunedin and Oamaru The "02" of Otepopo changed to Herbert 1875 The "0.37" of Mount Ida The 0.57" of Morven Hills on a SG.130 1871? (closed about 1867) was it used at Kakanui (Meheno with the "0.64" Interested in anyone's knowledge on the "0.57" Regards Andrew
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jan 23, 2021 9:10:29 GMT
It was advertised as SG115 - its not!! It is SG96a Davies p13 2d blue on unwatermarked white paper. SG115 is cat at £225 SG96a is cat at £2000 ! Quite a difference - and SG96a is quite hard to find mint. I am well pleased (fist pump moment once it arrived for me to confirm my suspicion). Congratulations on your great find, Dave! Based on your comment about having a 'suspicion', I gather that you studied the seller's scan, and you had the impression that you might have found the SG96a. Good for you! In years past, I was never much for buying stamps on eBay, but I have become more active during the past year. I have learned that if you are well informed and knowledgeable about what you are looking for, you can find all sorts of misidentified material for sale, even from dealers that you might think should know better. Of course, it cuts both ways. Sometimes it works out like your case where a rare item is sold as a more common one, but I often see examples of the opposite, where sellers claim a rare variety of a stamp that actually isn't rare at all! Anyway, really glad for you and that your expertise has paid off. Congrats again! -Chris
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 23, 2021 19:25:29 GMT
I have a nice PB.1 (Perkins Bacon) Obliterator in red 0n a 1859-61 6d Pale Brown other than a few "Paid" its all I have in unusual coloured cancellations. That is great Andrew. That is the first time I have seen a PB cancellation, in red, on a Chalon before. And a Richardson to boot! Nice find (jealous) ... Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 23, 2021 19:27:30 GMT
and ..... a nice clear O2 above. I received in recently an O28 of Miller's Flat (later Ettrick). I will scan it in later.
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 23, 2021 19:41:08 GMT
Congratulations on your great find, Dave! Based on your comment about having a 'suspicion', I gather that you studied the seller's scan, and you had the impression that you might have found the SG96a. Good for you! In years past, I was never much for buying stamps on eBay, but I have become more active during the past year. I have learned that if you are well informed and knowledgeable about what you are looking for, you can find all sorts of misidentified material for sale, even from dealers that you might think should know better. Of course, it cuts both ways. Sometimes it works out like your case where a rare item is sold as a more common one, but I often see examples of the opposite, where sellers claim a rare variety of a stamp that actually isn't rare at all! Anyway, really glad for you and that your expertise has paid off. Congrats again! -Chris Thanks Chris. I have had a couple of nice finds lately. That SG96a was, to me at least, not an SG115 as soon as I saw the pictures. Obvious lack of a 'Star' watermark was the 1st thing noticed followed by the whiteness of the paper. I was a little dubious of the lack of wear to the right of the Queens head, but now assume that this copy must be an early printing in 1863. Of course there is always the prospect that the dealer had the right description, but had posted the wrong image. SO you never know until it is in your hot little hands :-) I bought a nice 4d Rose perf 12.5 SG119 from a French dealer recently. It had a BIN price of 10 euro's. The description had it as a perf. 1d Red, SG110. Again, my thought was that he had mixed the pictures up. And again I was a little surprised when the 4d Rose arrived. It is all part of the game. It works in reverse as well. You buy stuff expecting better, and get 'worse' !! As to dealers on eBay, and other platforms, yes ... some (quite a few) exhibit dubious ethics. Caveat Emptor - Buyer beware !! Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 23, 2021 20:27:59 GMT
Andrew Re. your O57 above. All I can find about it is that O57 was issued to Luggate (RPSNZ Vol.3 page 76). Luggate is a small township 15km east of the resort town, Wanaka. Some offices were transferred from the Dunedin Postal District to the newly formed Oamaru Postal District in 1879 (after the Chalon period). This included O/57 which was Maheno (Kakanui). Vol.7 (RPSNZ) on page 217 states that, amongst other obliterators, O57 requires confirmation of usage. It states first allocation suspected at Morven Hills (closed 31 March, 1867). This map below shows the location of Morven Hills (Sheep Station) in relation to Luggate & Wanaka. And that is all I have currently. Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 23, 2021 20:54:28 GMT
Another item received in recently (amongst a bunch of others) was this one : SG98 1864 Davies 'NZ' wmk 2d blue imperf. The nice thing about this one is that it has the 5/Otahuhu/A postmark of the British Military Camp in Otahuhu (South Auckland). At the same time as the American Civil War (early to mid 1860s) there were skirmishes between the occupying British forces and the local 'Maori' owners of land. Otahuhu was a military encampment based along the nearby Great South Road, which was built and used to move between Auckland and the Waikato. Various other military encampments were established temporarily around this area and are a collecting sideline in their own right. It is a fascinating slice of NZ history (that isn't much talked about!!). Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 23, 2021 21:08:59 GMT
and lastly, for this morning, here is that O28 obliterator I promised earlier for Andrew. On an SG122 of the 1864-71 period: Not the clearest of 8's in the O28 but will suffice until a better one comes my way Dave
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gc
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Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 23, 2021 23:07:12 GMT
Hi Dave SG96a mint, what a ripper, well done. Also great to see so many cancellations. I don't have many, but have found this one. I believe it is "023" of Clyde ( formally Dunstan, changed to Clyde on 22 May 1865 )
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 23, 2021 23:29:56 GMT
Nice Grant. It does appear to be O23. What a shame that pair has an annoying row of horizontal perforations between stamps. It spoils a perfectly good 'Imperf. between' pair. *joking of course* Very nice Dave
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murfz1
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: New Zealand Chalons and Associated Material
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Post by murfz1 on Jan 24, 2021 0:54:50 GMT
I totally agree with all the comments on ebay. There is obviously a group of us that surf ebay looking for the unusual of different "Chalon" and there is definitely a lot of rubbish and mis-identified stamps. This does not surprise me as there is so many variants in the Chalon issues. It is becoming alot harder to find and win stamps on ebay and I am surprised at the prices realised for some. There are still quite a number of people out there enjoying the collecting of what I believe are one of the very iconic and collectable issues in the world. I picked this up this stamp a while back in a group of 4 on ebay foe $47au bucks "NEW ZEALAND 1855 CHALON HEADS USED ( 4 )" I need to get it certified but I believe it to be an SG.32, as could be seen from the back scans of the 4 perforated stamps was the paper very different to the others and no watermark was evident. The only perforated 6d unwatermarked stamp is a SG.32. It is definitely perforation 13. being a sqart stamp and the colour along with the partial manuscript all leads me to believe it is genuine. Time will tell when the experts look at it. Regards Andrew
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 24, 2021 1:40:45 GMT
I am not so sure that that stamp is SG32 Andrew.
SG32 is a Richardson print - SG13/14 perforated 13.
The stamp you have posted is red-brown - either SG77 if p13 or SG122 if p12½. Plus it appears to be massively thinned, which would account for no wmk.
I will see if I can locate a 'genuine' SG32 for you to illustrate.
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 24, 2021 2:31:54 GMT
Ok. I found one - but they are very scarce!! Spink Shreves Joseph Hackmey Sale Part 1 - New Zealand Chalons sale 2009 6d. pale brown, a bright shade with the perforations intact all round, so seldom the case with this delicate stamp, cancelled "17" and of very fine appearance. A very fine example of this exceptionally rare stamp, only a handful examples of which exist. Sc. 9d; S.G. 32, £6,500. Est. $4,000-5,000 SOLD for $3,250.00 So, it will be like an SG13/14 but perf 13. Dave
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 24, 2021 3:55:42 GMT
Hi Andrew and Dave Yes my guess ( sorry ) is SG122 I found another "023" on an SG77 perf 13 Also found a couple of "022" of Mataura ( on SG114 and SG141 ) Also a "21" of Hokitika ( SG38, SG122 and SG136 on cover )
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 25, 2021 6:33:05 GMT
Lovely examples again Grant. Gosh you have some lovely stuff there :-)
That 1st 6d brown is really nice, as is that cover.
Keep 'em coming
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 31, 2021 1:38:58 GMT
Something a little different - a block of 4 SG122 6d red-brown perf. 12½ by Davies. It is the only block I have of a Chalon value! Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 31, 2021 1:42:21 GMT
And a perf. set of Davies perf.12½ from the 1864-71 series : Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Feb 1, 2021 2:02:38 GMT
Looking at SG5 - Richardson 2d Blue on 'Blue' paper - SG lists it as just one shade 'blue' - whereas CP lists two shades 'blue' and 'pale blue' - A2b (1) & A2b (2). Looking at the few SG5's I have today, and I have thought about this previously, there appears to me to be three shades in this stamp! See the below pics. I seem to have a deep blue, a greenish blue and a pale blue (looks like a 'dry' print, certainly not worn). Apart from the 'official' CP catalogue listings does anybody in the know know of any other shades in this stamp? Remember, this is the Richardson on 'blue' paper printing of 1855-57. and a pair of the pale (dry) printing as per the 3rd stamp in the 1st picture above Dave
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murfz1
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: New Zealand Chalons and Associated Material
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Post by murfz1 on Feb 6, 2021 14:23:41 GMT
Dave I only have a couple of SG.5s The first is a certified CP A2b(1) The second I believe to be a CP A2b(2) Provided for interest sake it may help you. (Side by Side) Regards Andrew
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Feb 6, 2021 16:31:02 GMT
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renden
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What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Feb 6, 2021 16:36:58 GMT
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Feb 6, 2021 16:57:47 GMT
Here is a photo I had lying around of a couple of my Chalons that have been over inked (or a double print?). The 2d is over inked everywhere. The 1d is mainly on the background (or is it retouched). Regards, Skid
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Feb 6, 2021 19:31:11 GMT
Thanks Andrew for your two SG5's above.
The first one is oxidized so may need a dip in 'Hydrogen Peroxide 3%' for a bit to get rid of some of that discoloration and to bring 'up' the true color. It is a very nice stamp otherwise.
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Feb 6, 2021 19:33:55 GMT
Hi Skid and welcome to this thread. It is great to have a fellow collector of this iconic issue join us here and share. It may be of interest to you to know that 'Murfz1' is the one and the same Andrew from that website you mention above 'Andrews NZ Stamps' ! www.andrewsnzstamps.com/nz-chalons-collectionI am looking forward to your contributions going forward. Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,532
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Feb 6, 2021 19:49:29 GMT
Here is a photo I had lying around of a couple of my Chalons that have been over inked (or a double print?). The 2d is over inked everywhere. The 1d is mainly on the background (or is it retouched). Regards, Skid Nice items there Skid. To me these 2 items you show us are 'wet prints' produced when the paper was a little too wet still when the printing was made. It gives that 'wet' look you see in your two above. Conversely you can get 'dry' prints as well. These look 'dry' and lack detail. I have a pic of one somewhere I will dig out and show here later. As to the comment you made regarding the possible 'retouching'. Only one of the Chalons was retouched - the 2d blue of the 1864-71 series. That was retouched when the plate became 'damaged' due to scaling of the bottom third of the new plate. Around 1866-67. Retouched examples of that stamp are very collectable as people like to 'plate' their stamps based on the 'retouching'. Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Feb 7, 2021 2:02:34 GMT
Here are some cancelations from the Maori Wars. 4 over Onehunga over A 5 over Otahuhu over A The CDS looks like it says Maori War, but not sure if that is a actual candidate There is also Headquarters and Queens Redoubt, but I don’t have those. Also see Elliot
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Feb 7, 2021 2:04:34 GMT
Here are some S cancelations. Not sure if there is also a manuscript S or s 6 or a 9 on one of them
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Feb 7, 2021 2:05:30 GMT
Here are some Otago cancelations
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