rod222
Member
Posts: 10,681
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jul 2, 2024 0:26:53 GMT
Cape of Good Hope Adhesive Stamps 1901 (Scott so Pence not shown as denarii but "p")
Once again, curious to note, Americans seem to begin both their sizing, and the perf measurements from the top, whereas the English, (as I am let to believe, begin their perforation ID from the bottom of the stamp, clockwise, assuming the stamps had a differing perf guage on each of 4 sides
![](https://i.ibb.co/H7XDz50/Cape-of-Good-Hope-1901-adhesive-stamps.jpg)
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,759
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jul 2, 2024 1:46:14 GMT
I am suspicious about the bright blue stamp now that I see it with the others. I suspect this is a bleached or similar example. The paper is far too white to be compatible with the others. Perhaps Beryllium Guy or vikingeck (or anyone else) can post an example of what they consider bright blue?
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,823
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jul 2, 2024 3:17:52 GMT
Thanks for your post, JeffS First of all, very nice album page, there. Really well done! As to the 4d Bright Blue, it should be noted that that color is only listed in Scott, not in SG. I don't know if I have an example that really fits that description or not. I will look tomorrow for my brightest 4d PB blue, and I will let you be the judge. rod222 Thanks for your post, which is an example of the Scott Catalogue from 1901, if I understood correctly? If so, they sure have changed their listings dramatically since those days. Anyway, the main point of my comment to you is that the idea of the bluing having occurred due to a reaction with a chemical in the gum was later proven to be incorrect. According to what I have read, that notion, which was popular in the late 1800s, was disproven when a sheet of Cape Triangles that never had gum applied still had blued paper. After the "gum theory" was discredited, Stevenson speculated that the phenomenon may have had something to do with the "sizing" or weak glue used in the paper. To the best of my knowledge, it has never been proven definitively, one way or the other, what it was that reacted with the prussiate of potash to result in the bluing of the paper. Once the prussiate of potash was eliminated from the ink, the bluing of the paper stopped, but to my understanding, that's as much as can be said for sure. The strange part about it is that some stamps show bluing all over, suggesting that something like the sizing might have been responsible for the reaction. However, there are numerous examples that show patterns in the bluing that suggest that the reaction had something to do with the printed image, meaning that the bluing could be preferential, due to reaction with another constituent in the ink.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,472
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jul 2, 2024 13:34:43 GMT
rod222 's illustrated page is hardly relevant to our understanding of shades if it comes from a 1901 listing from Scott. Who else lists violet blue ? As SG doesn't list "Bright Blue", and I have to consider their opinion more reliable than Scott (sometimes doubtfully eg with respect differentiating SG1 & 3 and SG2 & 4 according to degrees of bluing ) I would simply say the shades of blue in the 4d are subjective and hard to distinguish. Experienced dealers will argue over Steel blue and Slate blue in DLR printings so how bright is Bright blue ? The example JeffS shows is certainly bright. I still struggle with PB and DLR printings so I haven't a clue sorry I can't help. So keep different examples if the shades look different but don't fret over naming the shade
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paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
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Post by paul1 on Jul 2, 2024 15:53:35 GMT
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,823
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jul 2, 2024 18:56:54 GMT
Thanks for your post, paul1I think you may have misunderstood Alex’s ( vikingeck) comment, which agrees with my earlier post. It isn’t that SG has stopped recognizing a color called Bright Blue. No one is saying that. What we are saying is that in the SG Catalogue listings for engraved Cape Triangles, they do not include a Bright Blue variety. Does that make sense? On the other hand, the Scott Catalogue does list a Bright Blue variety of 4d Cape Triangle, hence the original request from JeffS. Hope this helps.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,472
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jul 2, 2024 19:13:20 GMT
Thanks Beryllium Guy , of course some stamps from other countries might have colours which match old colour palettes ‘bright blue’ . It is just not recognised in Cape triangles by SG so no body knows what shade it is.. If one must use a colour guide at all for SG listings , then the SG colour key is the best tool, but that has its limitations as we all know. By the way paul1 the enlarged slab of 55 Bright blue is distinctly different from the small panel on the multi chart which show the limitations of colour comparison here on the internets screens !
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,041
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Jul 2, 2024 19:23:34 GMT
Thanks Beryllium Guy , of course some stamps from other countries might have colours which match old colour palettes ‘bright blue’ . It is just not recognised in Cape triangles by SG so no body knows what shade it is.. If one must use a colour guide at all for SG listings , then the SG colour key is the best tool, but that has its limitations as we all know. For CANADA Small Queens, I use "Color Guide for CANADA SQs" by Richard Morris - very detailed and well done. René
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,759
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jul 2, 2024 19:59:53 GMT
Hi Chris Beryllium Guy and thank you for taking the time to reply to my 4-pence page. I still owe you a reply to our private discussion about “steel blue.” I have immersed myself in researching examples of this shade online. I now need to put my thoughts into pixels and reply. Thank you for your patience.
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paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
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Post by paul1 on Jul 2, 2024 21:01:07 GMT
thanks Beryllium Guy. vikingeck, it seems that even with good photography there is the potential for appearances to be deceptive when trying to post colour swatches. Outside of the primary colours it's probably impossible to achieve a uniform consensus as to what the shades actually mean. However, the subject seems to provide endless discussion between collectors, and talking is always good.
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wm
**Member**
Posts: 35
What I collect: Cape of Good Hope, Natal, Transvaal
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Post by wm on Jul 12, 2024 17:33:49 GMT
Hi JeffS Beryllium Guy I'm slowly emerging from a busy work year, and finally get to look at the thread and my stamps again. I was in South Africa earlier this year, hoping to find COGH collections in the Cape Town museums (which I had previously seen many years ago). No luck, so it will have to be a trip to the postal museum in Pretoria next time. I'm posting a the 6d pairs that I have for comparison (all normal watermarks) and the two SG7s have the same faded appearance. The right hand pair is a mint SG7d slate purple, with OG. The right hand single is a unicorn – SG20a, bright mauve mint with a sideways watermark. Sorry the watermarks don't show up too well in the scans. ![](https://i.ibb.co/Rh8b2bG/6ds.jpg)
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,759
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jul 12, 2024 19:38:04 GMT
wm thanks for joining in. You have some desirable examples.
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