Great Britain : Stamps

Grover Perforating Machines

Stamp Perforating
An (cropped) article on stamp perforating machinery by Dave Hill in the Stamp
Lover, the magazine produced by the National Philatelic Society
(UK) gives an interesting insight into the manufacture and operation
of these appliances.

All shapes of perforation can be accommodated triangular,
diamond-shaped, round or free form. The important thing to Grovers
was the pitch (the number of holes across the sheet width). This was
estimated, then adjusted, for comb dies, so that the same riumber of
holes appeared on each stamp, with one in each corner and any
gutters allowed for.

The sheet or pane widths, were marked
accurately, then a precision machine tool using gears and screws,
accurately divided up the spaqe between the noles, on a master die.
the human eye could not be relied upon for the
accuracy required.

Although similar accuracy between stamps was
not required for straight line dies, they were still accurately drilled by
the same machines. Working dies, stripping plate, and pin holder
were all drilled through the master die.Master dies were kept so that
replacement parts fitted accurately.

A register of machines was also
kept. One machine originally sold to Poland, had returned to England
and was being used to perforate stamps of Bible scenes."

Scan added as an example only.

rod222 ... Fake news indeed.

Last year, I started using ChatGPT to help me to do research and prepare documents where I teach. I have a paid subscription to version 4.0. For most things, it works quite well. Then I got the bright idea of using it to help me prepare an article for my local stamp club newsletter. I Since the theme of the next issue was going to focus on stamps relating to Canada’s First Nations, I asked the AI for any information it had. What it came up with sounded amazing. The problem was, it just wasn’t true. Not just wrong, but largely made up.
Essentially, it was trying to tell me what it thought I wanted to hear. 

See for yourself. This is an excerpt of a very long conversation I had on this topic.

Question:

Have any first nations in North or South America issued postage stamps?

Answer:

While indigenous nations in North and South America typically do not have the recognized sovereignty to issue their own postage stamps for use within national postal systems, some indigenous communities have issued stamps as a means of promoting their culture, raising awareness, or generating revenue for their community.

Here are a few examples:

1. In Canada, the Haida Nation, located in the Haida Gwaii archipelago off the coast of British Columbia, has issued stamps as souvenirs and as a way to raise funds for the community. These stamps feature Haida art and designs, showcasing their rich cultural heritage. However, these stamps are not officially recognized for postal use by Canada Post.

2. The Kuna people, an indigenous group in Panama, have also issued stamps that reflect their culture and traditions. These stamps, like the Haida Nation stamps, are not officially recognized for postal use within Panama but serve as a cultural expression and source of revenue.

3. In the United States, the Navajo Nation released a series of unofficial stamps featuring tribal leaders, symbols, and art to celebrate their culture and history. These stamps are considered "Cinderella" stamps, which are not valid for postage but are collected for their artistic and cultural value.

While these examples do not represent officially recognized postage stamps, they highlight the efforts of indigenous communities to share and promote their culture, history, and identity through philatelic means. Collectors interested in these stamps should approach them as cultural artifacts and expressions of the indigenous communities they represent.


Question:

Any other examples?

Answer:

Yes, there are other examples of indigenous communities or unrecognized nations issuing unofficial stamps or Cinderella stamps. Some additional examples include:

1. Mapuche Nation (Argentina and Chile): The Mapuche people, who are indigenous to parts of Argentina and Chile, have issued unofficial stamps that highlight their culture, traditions, and history. These stamps are not recognized by the postal authorities of Argentina or Chile but serve as a means of cultural expression.

2. Taíno Nation (Caribbean): The Taíno people, who are indigenous to the Caribbean, have issued Cinderella stamps to promote awareness of their cultural heritage and history. These stamps are not recognized for postal use but are collected for their cultural and historical significance.

3. Miccosukee Indian Nation (United States): The Miccosukee Indian Nation, located in Florida, has issued unofficial stamps featuring tribal symbols and cultural elements. These stamps are not valid for postage within the United States postal system but are collected for their cultural value and as a representation of the Miccosukee Nation.

These examples, like the ones mentioned previously, are not official postage stamps but highlight the efforts of indigenous communities to share and promote their culture, history, and identity through philatelic means. Collecting such stamps can provide insights into the rich cultural heritage and traditions of these communities, but collectors should approach them as cultural artifacts rather than official postage stamps.

Question:

Are there similar examples outside the Americas?

Answer:

Yes, there are similar examples of indigenous communities or unrecognized nations issuing unofficial stamps or Cinderella stamps outside the Americas. Some of these examples include:

1. Aboriginal Nations (Australia): Some Aboriginal communities in Australia have issued unofficial stamps that feature their art, culture, and traditions. These stamps are not recognized for postal use within the Australian postal system but serve as a means of cultural expression and raising awareness about Aboriginal heritage.

2. West Papua (Indonesia): West Papua, a region in Indonesia with a significant indigenous population seeking independence, has issued Cinderella stamps to promote their cause and highlight their unique culture and identity. These stamps are not valid for postage within the Indonesian postal system but are collected for their historical and political significance.

3. Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic (Western Sahara): The Sahrawi people, who are indigenous to Western Sahara and have proclaimed the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, have issued stamps as a means to assert their identity and promote their cause for self-determination. These stamps are not recognized for postal use by the Universal Postal Union but serve as an expression of the Sahrawi people's political aspirations.

These examples, like the ones mentioned for indigenous communities in the Americas, are not official postage stamps but reflect the efforts of indigenous communities or unrecognized nations to share and promote their culture, history, and identity through philatelic means. Collecting such stamps can provide insights into the rich cultural heritage and traditions of these communities, but collectors should approach them as cultural artifacts or expressions of political aspirations rather than official postage stamps.


AI has lots of promise. It can be amazing. But, it’s not quite ready – especially for the world of philately.

[Lessons learned: It is very important when working with ChatGPT, or any AI, to take a lot of care when asking questions - they need to be as detailed and specific as possible. Also, always ask for the source of the information and the academic citation to be used.]

Hugh there is some evidence that such stamps, Cinderella rather than postage (and sometimes digital), exist for, at least some of these places:

See here for the haida nation project
 
Stamps certainly exist for West Papua, see here and Western Sahara see colnect here 

However, we are way off topic in this GB Stamps thread.

Did I identify these properly? GB 67, 82, 101, 117, 120
122, 136, 66, 78, 62.

They look right to me. 

rod222 said ............ ""The Dissolution of the Monasteries was a policy introduced in 1536 CE by Henry VIII of England (r. 1509-1547 CE)
to close down and confiscate the lands and wealth of all monasteries in England and Wales.
The plan was designed as a lucrative element of his Reformation of the Church.""
rod222, why no mention of what was surely the main reason Henry cut the U.K.'s ties with Rome ....... He wanted shot of Catherine of Aragon - his first wife - as he had the hots for the Boleyn girl. Being catholic, Rome could never agree to a divorce - told Henry in as many words, and the rest as they say is history. Ultimately Henry became a psychopath, endured rampant syphilis, vastly overweight - but tis true that setting himself up as the head of the Church of England did make him rich. Wonder what my forebears were doing at the time - obviously nowhere near the money. Like you I love history - shame it's all in the past.

BOITE MOBILE

Postmarks  (Oval, Circular, Octagonal, Chamfered box MB)

See Geoff's cover
link

The Mobile Box
The Australian Stamp Monthly, September 1984

Fascinating … thanks for making the connection. Way beyond my pay grade - smile.

Hugh
Just to complete the story,  "JOHN SAMUELS & Co"  Manchester,
were,  as F J Huth,  general merchants,
trading from 46 Portland Street  Manchester,  (Which is still standing, I believe)
Source :
Manchester 
Commercial List
1869-1870

PS: Your cover would have passed through the oaken doors of the Token House Yard...   Hehehe  

Hugh, I think that the last 3 letters are FAY and there appears to be a space between the the first 2 letters and FAY.
Hope this helps,
Daniel

Hugh

Great work there Hugh!   Forget the fancy purchase by Sheldon and the lads in "The Big Bang Theory" 
We have our own Time Machine  (Philately) 

That is the best (clearest) wax seal I have ever seen on a stamp forum, a Classic

Du Fay dealt preferably with Huth, possibly due to his banking reach.
We can see Du Fay had interests in the "Southern Cone"  (Argentina, Uruguay and Chile)
along with Mexico city and Vera Cruz.

Possibly the British woolen mills were pumping out 400,000 ? ponchos a year in trade.
Good work if you can get it.

I recall reading "The Great Duke" (Arthur Bryant) where Napoleon attempted to bring
Britain to her knees by blocking European ports and trade, but the desire of the French Army
for the "Wellington Boot" provided a brisk Black market.

"The Gazette" 1888

Auction Action.

Stanley Gibbons All world Public Auction June 16th 2005
Lot 959
1988 Christmas set on FDC
Has error 13p instead of 14p
Only 2 known Covers

Estimate $6000 - $7000

gmstamps Your Scott numbering are all correct. They are nice stamps but all being perfins generally reduces value and desirability for most collectors.  

This probably should be posted somewhere else. Mexican Covers? British Offices Abroad? Classic British Covers? Stampless Covers? Maybe a new thread for Huth & Company. Please advise. I put it here because earlier in this thread we had some fun with a cover from Fred Huth & Company. I suppose, it's just a cognitive bias, but I now see Huth & Company everywhere. I have at least a dozen covers now that are going to him or from his firm. Here is a new one I got in the mail today. It has some interesting challenges. (At least for me)

...

Anyway, this is a stampless commercial cover written on December 15, 1849 from Bastion Busing & Company in Veracruz, Mexico and sent on December 17 to Fred Huth & Company in London. It appears to have been sent through the British Post Office in Veracruz (see the cancel) via RMS Thames (mentionned at the top of the letter). It arrived in London January 21, 1850.

The postage rate seems to have been 2 shillings and 3 pence (handwritten on cover).

As we noted before, Frederick Huth & Company, a British firm established in 1809, was by 1850, the time of this letter, one of London’s leading merchant banks. Fred Huth was also the London financial advisor, banker and agent for the Spanish government. There are covers to and from his company throughout the entire Victorian Era and into the early 20thC. 
At the time the letter was written, the Mexican-American War had just ended the year before. It was the beginning of ten years of internal conflict between liberals and conservatives leading up to the Mexican Reform War of 1857,

I have yet to find any reference to Mr. Bastion Busing, his company or his business in Mexico. Presumably, he needed a banker. From a note on the flap, it may have been based in Batavia (Dutch East Indies) as well as Veracruz. The letter was written in what appears to be Dutch.

The RMS Thames was one of four paddle steamers constructed for the Royal Mail Steam Packet Company in Blackwall in 1841. She was requisitioned by the British Government at the outbreak of the Crimean War and was used as a transport. She was returned in 1856. Her sister ship, RMS Trent, was intercepted during the US Civil War by the US Navy. The subsequent Trent Affair almost led to war between the US and UK. In 1865, she was scrapped at St. Thomas in the Danish Virgin Islands – the West Indies hub of the Royal Mail Steam Packet Company.

Cancels:
Receiving Cancel, black ink – double circle, outer ring: VERA-CRUZ
Inside – 1848 / DEC 17
I am assuming this is a GPO cancel due to the use of the abreviation DEC. Not sure what type of cancel it is. There is no hammer number.

Arrival Cancel, red ink – outer ring: Crown and K
I can't see anything like this is John Hendy's book. And, why red? Arrived in the morning? Why the crown? It's not official mail. 
Inside – 21 JAN 21 / 1850

The unwatermarked, light blue writing paper is embossed in the upper left corner with a coat of arms and the name of the manufacturer: Rolland Freres Fabrts Bordeaux.
Not important, just fun. The paper came from France. 

The letter is annotated with handwriting on the inside flap as follows:

1850
Bastion Busing Co
Batavia Dec 15
Rec Jan 21
Feb 2

The remnants of the original red wafter seal can be read: BASTION BUSING & CO ... so, I've got the company name right.