hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,901
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Jan 8, 2022 0:11:31 GMT
To begin with, the first series was issued in 1912 and consisted of fifteen values, ranging from ¼ C. - 1 E and were published in a distinct variety of colours, paper types and perforations.
The stamps are based on the drawing by Constantino de Sobral Fernandes and engraved by José Sérgio de Carvalho e Silva. The inscriptions along the base of the stamp read "REPUBLICA PORTUGUESA" and "CORREIO" (for Portuguese Republic and Post). It was printed, as with all but one of the issues, in typography by the Portuguese mint, Casa da Moeda.
Happy collecting!
I do not specialize in Portugal & Colonies but anytime I am going through an old collection or box full of envelopes like now I am sure to find a variety of Ceres. Because there are so many values and colours I can almost always find some I do not have. Today I am going through a small lot of Portugal and sure enough there were a few Ceres and 2 I did not have. There was a .20 cent one that I thought was from the first issue on a greenish paper but I was not sure. Thanks to your post stanley64 Stanley I could confirm it was what I hoped and not just a discoloured later 20 cent. That is the joy of this site. The other hole filled was the 1.60 1929 Revalidado overprint. Even without specializing I now have almost 100 different Ceres from just Portugal without even getting into paper types or variants.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 11, 2022 10:47:30 GMT
Glad to see the postings useful hdm1950 ! Even for myself, they are a good reference point and saves the need to pull the catalogue or text off the shelf ;-) At the same time, I would add that although you are not an active collector of Portugal & her Colonies, I would encourage you and others not to be daunted by the paper types or variants. They can be complicated, but overwhelming so and with a good reference set, they can add a whole new dimensions to collecting these paper "M&M"s...
Happy collecting!
P.S. I recently saw Portugal & Colonies abbreviated as "P & C" in an issue of Portu-Info, the journal of the International Society for Portuguese Philately; just thought to add.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 15, 2022 11:10:17 GMT
The Ceres issues of Portugal and her colonies do have their share of colour varieties and various shades, they can add to the enjoyment or confusion, depending on your view.
Here are some examples with 'lilac' as thier designation,
Angola 6c. 1921-22 (Afinsa n.º 203) 15 x 14 & 12 x 11 1/2 - Lilac - Clear Lilac
and just for reference, here is the complete set from which it comes,
Angola_Ceres 1921-22 (Afinsa n.º 200-11) 15 x 14
Happy collecting!
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,917
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jan 15, 2022 11:37:17 GMT
Very nice side-by-side comparison, Vince ( stanley64), thanks for sharing that. I never heard of "clear lilac" before, and I wouldn't have had any idea what type of lilac that would have meant. Thanks to you, now I have an idea, at least. I have some other questions and comments about organizing colour varieties for you, but I will post them elsewhere, as I don't want to clutter this thread dedicated to Ceres with them.
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Post by adamgarfinkle on Jan 28, 2022 15:01:22 GMT
Just by the way, concerning the Ceres issue, I have a album-related question. I use Scott, like most Americans I think, and resort to other catalogs only when necessary...which happens.... Scott screwed up the listing for the Ceres issue big time, and then at some point (not sure when) it fixed its error by renumbering the items, having awkwardly to add lots of letters to include items it formerly missed. Alas, the Scott speciality album made before the correction is also screwed up, lacking spaces for many current numbers--like the difference between chalky and ordinary paper, and also between perf varieties of the ordinary paper in several cases. I assume that if one were to buy a Scott specialty album for Portugal today the pages would properly match the corrected catalog. Right? I'd like to have these corrected pages, but I don't want to buy a lot of pages I don't need, and I certainly don't want to go through the trouble to remount a lot of stuff beyond just what is needed to get the Ceres issue displayed correctly. Now, I could call Amos Hobby and ask if they sell just the corrected pages for the Ceres issue, but knowing Scott I'm pretty sure the answer is no. That leaves me with the option of making my own pages just for this issue. Am I thinking about this accurately? Is my choice really between buying new Scott specialty album pages, the vast majority of which I don't want, or making my own pages for just this issue? Or maybe buying a cheap collection with the right pages just to get the pages, and then re-sell the stamps? Anyone have some useful advice for me, perhaps?
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brightonpete
Departed
Rest in Peace
On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jan 28, 2022 15:08:55 GMT
adamgarfinkle - go to this Scott pages site where you can buy country pages from the Scott catalogue. Much cheaper than buying the book(s)! I've bought a number of countries from him and I'm happy. I'm not a WW collector, so this is a better choice for me.
Peter
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Feb 7, 2022 10:55:34 GMT
The Portuguese Ceres first emissions were all printed on coated or 'chalk-surfaced paper', the stamps of Moçambique and its districts were no exception, Inhambane (Afinsa n.º 71 - 86 ) with n/cat cliché 30 C. - broken frame, bottom left
Lourenço Marques (Afinsa n.º 117 - 132) with n/cat cliché 1/4 C. - broken top frame, above 'O'
Quelimane Afinsa (n.º 25 - 40)
The applied layer is white and gives mint stamps a sheen like grandma's fine china or the coating of a M&M candy. The paper itself can have its fibres running either horizontally (medium chalk-surfaced paper) or vertically (ordinary chalk-surfaced paper) and will result in the stamp curling in the same direction when exposed to heat...
Happy collecting!
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Post by gstamps on Apr 8, 2022 7:32:16 GMT
They are inherited stamps and of no interest to me. I think they are forgeries (in Scott I found no mention of this) I hope experienced collectors will confirm or not. For better details I can only photograph one stamp. Thanks
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Post by gstamps on Apr 9, 2022 10:32:30 GMT
I couldn't remember how I came to the conclusion that the stamps were forgeries (one stamp I think is genuine). You can find very good information on the website "www.inverso.pt/portugal/Index.htm"
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Apr 9, 2022 18:30:37 GMT
Whilst the stamps shared may be of no interest to you; they were enough to pull me out of the woodwork; thanks gstamps. I think your initial assessment is correct in that the stamps are forgeries. Let us take a closer look and see why I think your suspicions are valid, 1. hook in the sleeve of the left arm, the same line, on a true stamp, is straight. 2. misformed 'T' of Portuguesa, the letter should 'hug' the 'R', but not touch. 3. no pools of ink which creates tiny dots overall is missing or not visible from your scanned image (you might want to look closer)
4. the country names are not refined enough, the 'G' is not crisp in Angola, The cedilla of the letter 'C' of Mocambigue is blunt and the 'A' of Cabo is inconsistent with the other letters.
Nice stamps though and thanks for the showing...
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Apr 10, 2022 10:15:43 GMT
Firing up the scanner, here is an example of an authentic stamp from the series,
One of the main problems for a forger is the paper. They can replicate the design, but the duplicating the paper stock is another matter. In the case of the later high-value denominated Ceres, these were printed on one of the surfaced papers which appears thick, almost cardboard like. In the printing process, the ink pooled and concentrates in visible tiny dots. Both good factors to keep in mind when looking for good copies.
In the design itself, the font created for printing of the value tablets and country name is a clear, crisp Serif Font. A false stamp can be identified by rounded ends and less than exact lettering in the print.
All good fun...
Happy collecting!
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Post by gstamps on Apr 10, 2022 11:14:23 GMT
Thanks stanley64 for the thorough explanation. Few collectors take so much interest in the collecting area.I think I read somewhere on the site: "philately starts after the end of the catalogues" As English is not my native language (like many collectors on the site) I stand by the idea that the picture explains it much better. The name of the colony in fake and original (I hope I'm not wrong).
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Apr 10, 2022 17:54:45 GMT
All good gstamps and yup, with 99% certainty, I believe you are correct; the stamp on the left is false and the one on the right is original.
The 10 E. stamp of Moçambique, in addition to the country and value tablet being questionable, the stamp itself has its own issues and I would put it in the forged column.
As time and interest permits, here are a few things to look at more closely which should help with the determination:
1. hook in the sleeve of the left arm? 2. 'T' of Portuguesa? 3. no pools or puddles of ink and the tiny dots it creates?
In either case though, nice to see and thanks for the showing...
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Apr 19, 2022 16:09:03 GMT
In addition to the items already shown, here is another example of the pools or puddles of ink and the tiny dots they create on genuine copies on these issues,
A quick, cursory look at the current inventory available on-line would suggest that the majority of dealers are selling the real thing...
Have fun and happy collecting!
P.S. Mind those sets ;-)
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Apr 24, 2022 10:20:06 GMT
Of all the clichés that can be found on the various Portuguese Ceres issues, this one has to be a favourite of mine, Moçambique ¼ C. Ceres Issue (1914) Afinsa nº 153 - Perforated 15 x 14 - Acetinado Pontinhado Vertical Cliché - CCCXXI (MM)
Have fun and happy collecting!
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Post by gstamps on Apr 26, 2022 7:26:30 GMT
Very interesting information about paper types. I have some "Azores" overprinted stamps that I think are on vertical dotted paper. I have no information if these stamps and the overprint have been forged.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Apr 26, 2022 8:26:30 GMT
Nice stamps from the 1st and 2nd printings; thanks for showing. I think you are spot-on with your assessment of the paper types Mr. gstamps except for perhaps the 1 C. which is likely smooth (liso) paper as the lozenges are not as uniform as one would expect to find in dotted (pontinhado) paper as in your other example. As for the overprints, I have not seen any reference to these being falsified, especially on the lower values... Have fun and happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Apr 28, 2022 9:30:09 GMT
More on the The Ceres stamp issues and the pontinhado or dotted paper; this paper lacks to gloss or sheen of some of the others used and when viewed against a light source shows small diamonds or rhombi running either horizontally or vertically. The design will cover the entire stamp and depends on how the sheets were fed into the press at the time of printing.
In the 1/4 C. stamp shown by @gstamp, the rhombi clearly run vertically, although this issue is known to exist with both...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Apr 29, 2022 9:31:36 GMT
A recently completed set of the Moçambique colony's Ceres issues from 1921 on various papers,
Row 1 :
3 C., 4 C., 4½ C., 7 C. & 30 C. (perforated 15 x 14) Row 2 & 3 3 C., 4 C., 4 ½ C., 6 C., 7 C., 12 C., 60 C., 80 C. & 2E. (perforated 12 x 11½)
All of the Ceres issues were printed from the same plates and in a second printing, had their denominations and colony names added.
Note the 7 C. on the first row has the same cliché - CCCXXI (MM) as the Moçambique ¼ C. Ceres issue (1914) shown in a previous post.
Have fun and happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Apr 29, 2022 9:36:25 GMT
All is not papers, perforations or even clichés with the Portuguese Ceres issues, although an never-ending area to explore, one can also do some star gazing,
Have fun and happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on May 4, 2022 9:17:51 GMT
Reading a discussion of mis- or blind perforations found on the Canadian Admirals in this thread - Admirals and thought to show this example from a Portuguese S. Tomé e Príncipe issue, S. Tomé e Príncipe 1922 - 6 C. Lilac (12 x 11½) smooth or liso paper
For myself, whilst I would not place much of a premium on such an error, freak or oddity, think that if available, should be included in a specialised collection...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 11, 2022 20:09:39 GMT
posting mainly out of curiosity- I received a mixed lot of stamps the other day and this was among this not well centered, 15 x 14 perf, but I see that the T and R in PORTUGUESA touch, and it has what the French would call "anneau lune" above the left star. The 3 lines across the right field (first through the C, the lower ones much shorted but roughly parallel to the uppermost line. Is this a legitimate stamp? I do not not have another of this denomination/color to compare to.
and here's the back
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on May 11, 2022 20:38:29 GMT
Thanks for your post, Stan ( stainlessb).... it's a nice stamp. If you scroll back up in the thread to Vince's ( stanley64) post from 28-Apr, he wrote: I can clearly see the dots or small diamonds in the paper from your scan, so I think that would indicate that your stamp is probably genuine, but let's see if Vince, who really knows this material, will respond to the tag and give us a confirmation.....
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on May 11, 2022 21:00:25 GMT
Chris
I thought the same regarding paper, but there is the comment about the T & R not touching, and my stamp, they clearly look like they are running together.
I noticed the anneau lune before anything else.
Stan
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,917
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on May 11, 2022 21:07:21 GMT
It's a good point, Stan ( stainlessb), but again, if you look back through the thread at the previous images, I think that the instance where the R and T are not touching is for the Portuguese colonial issue with the country name as a fill-in-the-blank space, rather than the issue from the mother country, which yours is. Take a look at the post from gstamps, which is for overprinted Ceres from Portugal, rather than the colonial issue. The R and T are touching in his, and they also have the dotted paper. Again, I have no expertise in this area, but I think that the signs point to your example being genuine.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,992
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on May 12, 2022 11:54:43 GMT
Looks right to me Stan ( stainlessb ) and a fine example it is of pontinhado paper with those clearly visible vertical lozenges. The 'RT' of 'PORTUGUESA' touching, as you note, is not quite there and in fact, looking at a full-scale grey image one can see the light of day, albeit just a sliver, between the two letters.
At the same time, the line through the middle of the 'C' and the pair below that makes for a nice cliché grouping and one that I have not seen before. Some further research would be required to determine if it has been catalogued or not. Despite the centering, nice stamp; thanks for showing...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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Post by gstamps on May 12, 2022 14:01:29 GMT
stainlessb, I'm not sure but I think the "anneau de la lune" is due to the sticking of the pieces of paper coming from the perforation on the plate. One of the conditions is that the diameter of the "anneau de la lune" is at least equal to the diameter of the perforation holes.
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on May 12, 2022 14:04:11 GMT
Thanks Vince!
is the anneau lune something seen often? They are often called out in the french catalogues for stamps of France, and not real common
Stan
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 12, 2022 14:06:45 GMT
gstamps I had not heard this definition before (in fact when I first came across this in my Maury Ceres & Dallay i had to post a question here to find out what it was in reference to!
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Post by gstamps on May 12, 2022 14:42:50 GMT
I do not have the catalogs mentioned. If "anneau de la lune" are mentioned in them, they should also mention the conditions that must be met. I posted this stamp on a French site and I was told that it could be classified as "anneau de la lune" I think that not every size of foreign body that sticks to the plate and leaves a mark on the stamp can be characterized as "anneau de la lune". This is my opinion following the discussion with the French collector.
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