stainlessb
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qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,642
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 12, 2022 15:24:31 GMT
I was told it was caused by oil on the plate, which caused the ink to "fish-eye", it translates to English as 'moon ring' and someone mentioned 'halo'. I recently compared 19 France catalogues going back to 1884 to the present, looking at any mention of variants and/or colors of the Type Sage. There is little in the way of consensus and often 'traits' are mentioned with no example or details provided.... a bit frustrating, but the notion of "one man's garbage is another man's treasure" comes to mind
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stanley64
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Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on May 13, 2022 9:32:50 GMT
Thanks Vince! is the anneau lune something seen often? They are often called out in the french catalogues for stamps of France, and not real common Stan Moon rings, halos or even parasites, as I have seen them referred to, are not common, but not rare either Stan. They are interesting to note as some of them can be quite spectacular.
For myself though, they fall into the category of Error, Freak or Oddity (EFO).
1926 4C. Ceres, smooth paper, perf. 12x11½ (with parasite)
On the other hand, it is those clichés that are consistent and can be plated to a specific stamp position from the full-printed sheet. As the example you have shown is quite grande, I would be surprised if it has not been catalogued and will see what I can dig up...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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Post by gstamps on May 13, 2022 10:10:33 GMT
stainlessb, if it were oil I think it would be just a white area. Notice that in the center is a colored spot. It was explained to me that the foreign object glued to the plate also receives ink (resulting in the color spot in the center), but being above the plane of the plate the paper around it can no longer be pressed on the plate and this white halo results.
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stanley64
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What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jul 13, 2022 9:58:34 GMT
A variety of papers were used in the printing of the Portuguese Ceres series as listed in an early posting that can be found here - Papers used for Portuguese Ceres series. The list is only missing a couple of variants which can be found in a following post, but brings the total number of paper types to 24.
For those collecting, one of the rarer papers is cartolina or card as found in this example from the 1914 Angola issue,
¼ C. Sépia, Afinsa nº 142, 15 x14, Cartolina (thickness - 170 μm). 2nd row, 1st stamp cliché - CCXLVII (MM), 2nd stamp cliché - N/C
Cartolina or card is relatively easy to determine given its thickness; when you feel it, you know it. However, certainty can be achieved by measuring the paper thickness and anything above 100 μm is candidate...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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stanley64
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What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jul 16, 2022 10:10:56 GMT
Moçambique 1922 12 x 11 1/2 carmim rosa & carmim, an example of both shades on liso or smooth paper
Overprinted "Vasco da Gama 1924" in green to commemorate the 400th Anniversary of the Death of Vasco da Gama (1469-1524).
Have fun and happy collecting!
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stanley64
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What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Oct 5, 2022 9:31:11 GMT
05 October, seems an appropriate date to make a posting to the thread...
Here we have a block of 20 from a larger sheet, Angola 1914 - 15c. 'rosa malva' printed on liso (smooth), pontinhado (dotted) vertical paper and perforated 12 x 11½,
Row 1 : cliché - LXXXVI (MM)
Row 4 : cliché - N/C
Concerning the cliché found in row 4, there are many printing anomalies to be found in the bottom of these stamps, notably in the area of the printer and engraver's credits, especially in the lower right corner. I have identified several, many of which are not catalogued; an opportunity for future study, perhaps.
From bottom to top, it is in the selvedge at the top of the block that we find the 'Jubilee line' or perhaps, simply printer's frill?
For now, I am going with Jubilee line...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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stanley64
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Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Oct 12, 2022 9:46:22 GMT
Ok, Portugal's Republic Day has come and gone for another year, but instead of waiting for the next holiday, I thought to re-post this block, along with another, after some further investigation,
From sheet of 180 stamps - "20 x 9"
Row 1 : cliché - LXXXVI (MM), sheet position nº 15 Row 2 : cliché - N/C
Row 4 : cliché - N/C x 2
It is with the discovery of the second half of this sheet that I am now able to plate the different clichés found that have already been identified as consistent. Whilst these blocks, although correctly identified as Angola - 15c. Rosa Malva, (Liso Pontinhado Vertical), the printing is from 1921 - 1925 and not 1914 as initially stated. This is important, as it is in this year, 1921 that one begins to see re-engraving of the plates used in the production of the Ceres issues.
From sheet of 180 stamps - "20 x 9"
Row 1 : cliché - N/C
Row 2: cliché - CCCXXIV (MM), sheet position nº 38 & cliché - CLXIX (MM), sheet position nº 39
Row 4 : cliché - N/C X 2
I am sticking with the notion that the bars found in the margin are in fact part of a "jubilee line" which, similar to those found on other sheets of other stamps, including those of the British Commonwealth, that served the printer to assess plate wear.
As for the N/C or non-catalogued clichés, the task now is to determine if they are simply random faults due to the typography printing process or in fact as consistent between the various printings of the different sheets i.e. flyspecking vs. plating. Still, the bottom of the stamps. especially in the area of the printer and engraver's credits along with the numbers and currency in the value tablets, hold a certain intrigue and will require further research...
Have fun and happy collecting!
P.S. I did not after the initial posting, the misalignment of one of the pins in the perforations that runs the length of the first block ;-)
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Oct 14, 2022 7:08:02 GMT
From the previous posting, 1921 begins to see the re-engraving of the plates used in the production of the Ceres issues with shown blocks having at least four examples of those that missed the engraver's tool,
There are several indicators which show the differences of the before and after of which a few are highlighted here,
Ceres - Gravura Retocada (Re-touched Engraving) : Left a. thick, regular line b. absence of line c. irregular line d. long strokes e. two short lines Ceres - Gravura Não Retocado (Original Engraving) : Right a. irregular line b. trace of small line c. no line d. short strokes e. no lines For further readings, cast your eyes on Mr. Barata's article, O Cunho II do Tipo Ceres from the journal of the Clube Filatélico de Portugal which includes additional details and a listing of other known se-tentant pairs...
Have fun and happy collecting!
P.S. Note that the Moçambique 1922, "Vasco da Gama 1924" pair posted earlier in the thread is another example "gravura retocada" & "gravura não retocado"
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 4, 2023 11:28:45 GMT
With Dark Green / Emerald being one of the 'hot' colours for 2023, here are some examples of the Portuguese Ceres with the same colour, 1914 Moçambique - 1 c. 'Verde' 15 x 14 (Acetinado Espesso) 2nd row, 5th stamp cliché - CCCXXI (MM), location - stamp nº 130
3rd row, 2nd stamp cliché - n/c, location - stamp nº 147
1914 Moçambique - 1 c. 'Verde Escuro' 12 x 11 1/2 (Acetinado Espesso)
3rd row, 5th stamp cliché - CCCXXI (MM), location - stamp nº 130
4th row, 2nd stamp cliché - n/c, location - stamp nº 147
The cliché - 'CCCXXI', with its allusion to a Coptic tattoo, is one of my favourites as shared earlier in this posting here. At the same time, the non-catalogued (n/c) can be found on all three blocks of stamps, although difficult to see in the 1/4 c. issue, makes it consistent and an interesting discovery.
Have fun and happy collecting!
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tobben63
Member
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,866
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Jan 4, 2023 11:33:28 GMT
Talking about the Portuguese Ceres issues in general, I need to read this whole tread before I start on organizing Portugal. I think I have a whole 16pages stock book with used port. Ceres. But that will not be done now, but maybe this year....
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cjoprey
Member
Scanning stamps for my website...
Posts: 1,443
What I collect: Belgium (predominantly), British Commonwealth (older ones), WW (whatever comes my way...)
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Post by cjoprey on Jan 4, 2023 14:38:01 GMT
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 6, 2023 16:26:26 GMT
I had a look at the Portuguese Ceres stamps shared in the link cjoprey and there are some nice stamps there including those with the dated cancels. For these issues, stamps with postmarks clearly showing the location and/or the date are not that common. What really took my eye were the clichés visible on several of the stamps. As well, watch out for those clandestine printings with their irregular perforations. Although for the latter, my knowledge is limited. If you are interested in a trade, let me know... Have fun and happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 11, 2023 11:49:32 GMT
Filling in the knowledge gap, I found several references to the clandestine printings of Portugal in earlier boletins of the Clube Filatélico de Portugal (CFP) and mention of this text which I have added to the library,
The stamps are not forgeries as such, as they were printed by the "Casa da Moeda", using the original plates, but were perforated off-site. In addition to the brighter colours, irregular perforations, these later issues will have been printed from plates that were re-engraved (see earlier postings re: 'retocada' vs. 'não retocado'. In which case, stamps issued before 1923 will not have been re-engraved and provides a separate check, in addition to the other items mentioned, to identifying these 'album weeds'.
With text in hand and some visual examples, a cursory look through my own collection, found none...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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Post by gstamps on Jan 11, 2023 17:26:17 GMT
Hi stanley64 What do you mean by irregular perforations? Do you mean stamps like the one below?
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 12, 2023 11:46:11 GMT
Not quite gstamps , for the perforations found on these clandestine or ‘favour’ stamps, for lack of a better term, the perforations are irregular in the sense that a couple are found not in alignment, either higher or lower from a baseline and individual perforation holes will vary in size. The stamp you have shown has the perforations all neatly aligned and of the same size,
Fortunately, not all of the Portuguese Ceres postage stamps are found in this state and we can currently eliminate those from the following colonies: Cabo Verde, Guiné, S. Tomé e Príncipe and the districts of Congo, Inhambane, Quelimane and Tete.
However, it has been saide, "there is no ‘final word’ in philately…" Have fun and happy collecting!
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Post by gstamps on Jan 12, 2023 16:50:53 GMT
Hi stanley64Your statement: “ are found not in alignment, either higher or lower from a baseline and individual perforation holes will vary in size” - made me wonder what a flat perforator in line looks like - with a single row of pins. (I haven't actually seen any perforator) The result is the one below (excuse the simplistic drawing) I suspect that the pins have a profiled cutting edge and are of the same diameter which is well correlated with the size of the holes in the press plate and in the base plate. Any pin with a larger diameter can lead to blocking in the holes in the 2 plates. (how can holes in the stamp of different diameters then appear?) The only logical explanation is that the holes in the press and base plates are much larger than the diameter of the pins and then they can tilt randomly leading to misalignment of the holes in the stamp and the defective pins can be replaced with other pins not necessarily of the same diameter. I would be happy if someone who has seen a flat perforator in line can confirm if what I imagined is correct or not.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 14, 2023 10:03:15 GMT
Your diagram gstamps illustrates well my understanding of how the perforator device works; rotary perforating wheels using pins that are pushed into counterpart dies to punch out those small bits of paper, although I too have not seen one in person. The model and my understanding of the device can explain misperfs, where a pin is missing, but it does not work where the perforation holes are different sizes or misaligned as mentioned in the earlier posting with the clandestine perforations or in this example,
Cabo Verde 1914 - 1/4c. Sepia (Liso) perforated 15 x 14
In the first column of stamps, the 10th perforation of each measures 0,7 mm whereas its neighbour and the other perforations are only 0,3 mm in diameter. As well, in the fourth column, the misaligned perforation of the 5th hole is clear. In either case, the model of pins pushed into counterpart dies does not seem to hold up and an explanation needed.
Have fun and happy collecting!
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Post by gstamps on Jan 14, 2023 14:51:15 GMT
thestampforum.boards.net/post/30311Hi stanley64A single-comb perforator was used. It had 2 defective pins (I guess the corresponding hole was modified so it wouldn't block) The perforation was made row by row starting from the bottom of the sheet.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 16, 2023 11:33:02 GMT
Hello gstamps Great stuff, comb perforations it is; I read through the postings on the " Line and Comb Perforations" thread and have to agree. At the same time, the single-comb perforator would explain the regular 'irregular' perforations of the clandestine perforated stamps described on each of the four sides on the stamp. These 'mapped' perforations could come in handy when it comes to the plating efforts of consistent clichés.
For example, from the Cabo Verde block shown above, there is a rather dramatic non-catalogued (n/c) cliché of a broad scratch that extends across the entire length of the stamp just below the head of Ceres and can be found on the stamp of the 3rd row, 2nd column, whose current location or stamp nº is unknown.
Matching the perforations, either the larger hole or the misperf with another similar sheet with other identified clichés or selvedge in place might provide the location...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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Post by gstamps on Jan 16, 2023 20:23:08 GMT
Hi Vince, stanley64 I'm trying to understand how you identify the clichés in the block you post. I suspect that the cliché was produced from the original die (vertical/horizontal strip and how many fields?) With this cliché were panels created or directly the whole plate? I suspect that in each field of the cliché there are some specific characteristics that can lead to the identification of the cliché. It would be very helpful if you could describe how the printing plate is produced
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Post by gstamps on Jan 16, 2023 20:45:56 GMT
stanley64If the sheet is 20x9, then the position of the stamp can be from field 42 to 58.
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stanley64
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Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 18, 2023 11:09:02 GMT
Let us see what I can do gstamps to outline the process behind the printing of the various Ceres issues.
The Portuguese Ceres stamps were drawn by Constantino de Sobral Fernandes and engraved by José Sérgio de Carvalho e Silva. The initial image or master die would have been engraved in soft steel, hardened and that image transferred to the printing plate where the process is repeated. The stamps themselves are printed in a single colour and for the colonies, the values and names would have been printed separately onto the earlier printed sheet of stamps. The subsequent clichés or printing anomalies are result of foreign material on the printing plates or from wear and tear of the printing plates themselves. In both texts, Portugal Ceres Catalogue Variedades de Cliché & Os selos Ceres das Colónias Portuguesas the authors, including Eng. J. Miranda da Mota, catalogue 100's of known cliches for both the regular issues and those of the colonies. Finding the ones that are not currently catalogued, of which there are still many, is just on of the challenges with the study and collecting of the Ceres issues.
If anyone needs further details, I am happy to continue the discussion...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 18, 2023 11:42:32 GMT
Your spot on George ( gstamps ); the position of the stamp could be from position 42 to 58 for which the earlier mentioned cliché would apply. However, the sheet for the stamps printed on liso (smooth) paper was 20x10 and the only difference is an extra row on the finished sheet. In which case, your analysis is correct as the earlier mentioned stamp is from the third row and the position numbering remains the same for both.
For this particular stamp issue, The 1914 1/4 c. issue of Cabo Verde, has been documented on three paper types with variants and three different colour shades: Sepia, Sepia Escuro (dark) and Sepia Esverdeado (greenish),
Cabo Verde 1914 - 1/4c. perforated 15 x 14 L - R: Porcelana Médio (coated paper) sheets of 10x10, Amarelado (yellowish paper) sheets of 20x9 and Liso (smooth) sheets of 20x10
It is the porcelana or coated papers that make a page sparkle...
Have fun and happy collecting!
P.S. Your stamp, the 2 1/2 c. Congo issue shown earlier, is also printed on 'porcelana médio' or coated paper.
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Post by gstamps on Jan 18, 2023 19:23:57 GMT
Hi stanley64 Thanks for the explanations. I misunderstood the word "cliche" ( strip) If I'm not mistaken again, cliche = plate flaw = plate constant variety = plattenfehler. German stamps still use Latin numbers, but each stamp has its own series. For the Portuguese stamps, I think there is only one series (cliché CCCXXI = 321) I guess that each cliché number has the position of the field in the sheet mentioned, but does it also mention what stamp values it appears at?
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 20, 2023 9:42:05 GMT
We agree gstamps on the definition : cliche = plate flaw = plate constant variety = plattenfehler = plaatfouten (NL) As for the for clichés themselves, in the texts I have seen, each one is given its own Roman Numeral for identification beginning with "I". Most of the clichés identified do have their field or plate position identified, but not all. For the Portuguese Ceres issues, each stamp value has its own entries whereas the colony issues have only the one set given that there were printed from the same plates.
Here is an example where the cliché, albeit they are different, have been identified by the same Roman Numeral for the two values, i.e. 4c. & 10c.
Cliché n.º LXXIII
Have fun and happy collecting!
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Post by gstamps on Jan 20, 2023 10:19:28 GMT
Hi stanley64I checked many plateflaws on German stamps. I have the following rules to distinguish them from printflaws (accidental occurrences caused by: too much or too little ink, plate not cleaned properly, etc.) 1. check in the specialized catalogs (there are many for German, but unfortunately I miss them) 2. query on the forum (there are some very good German sites) If I don't get an affirmative answer (many plateflaws in the Michel catalog have the mention "Teilauflagen" - they don't appear on all prints - probably more plates used) 3. finding other stamps with the same deviation/flaw 4. identifying the position of the field of appearance. I have 2 examples of stamps: - one with the same plateflaw found at another collector but without field identification. -one different from the one mentioned by Michel in the respective field and confirmed by a collector that it is constant in the sheets he owns. Unfortunately, I don't think there are collectors on TSF with these concerns for German stamps as for these Portuguese Ceres.
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 543
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on Jan 22, 2023 2:01:27 GMT
The Ceres series of Portuguese postage stamps is a definitive series depicting the Roman goddess Ceres that was produced between 1912 and 1931 for Portugal and its colonies. These were the first stamps to be issued after the declaration of the Portuguese Republic and succeeded the previous issue figuring king Manuel II which had been overprinted with the word “República”.
The Ceres stamps were officially obsoleted on 30 September, 1945 which concluded one of the longest running series of a stamp issue both in terms of length of time, with its eight distinct issues, and the overall number of stamps produced. This thread is dedicated to that series and Ceres, the Roman goddess of agriculture, grain, and the love a mother bears for her child.
Collecting and studying the "Ceres" issues as it relates to the several issues, their paper types, perforations, colours, overprintings and not to forget postmarks or even aspects of postal history, this series can be fun!
If others can share, please do so… Happy collecting!
Of all major stamps, this one never ceases to get the better of me. It's an important series; long lived, lots of varients, fascinating to collect. Sure, I get all that.
But those eyes; too deep, menacing to my glance, inhuman even. Then there is that scythe. She isn't holding, but wielding. That doesn't look like a welcome greeting. I guess the design was trying to make statement about the newly established Portuguese republic. But would you ask her to pick up the children from school?
Before I wander back to my cave, am I the only viewer who thinks, is that demon coming for me?
A century later, looks like they tried to make her more clearly heroic, but hardly more approachable. She's holding the harvest, but what does she see? Nothing good.
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Post by gstamps on Jan 22, 2023 6:25:26 GMT
Hi kasvik , now that you've brought it to my attention, the eyes look weird. I can't find the few stamps that I have to better observe the design. I have the feeling that it looks more like frog eyes.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 22, 2023 10:09:41 GMT
You being haunted by the Ceres image is understandable Aaron ( kasvik ), as I can not think of any other issue which embody the Portuguese concept of " saudade" better. Her gaze, to the optimist, is looking to the future with the vision of something better, but with the reality of 'now' darkening it.
With that and in all her splendour, here is the latest addition to the collection,
Cabo Verde 1914 - Porcelana Médio (15 x 14)
All that is missing is the Fado playing in the background...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,825
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 28, 2023 16:18:09 GMT
Hi stanley64 I checked many plateflaws on German stamps. I have the following rules to distinguish them from printflaws (accidental occurrences caused by: too much or too little ink, plate not cleaned properly, etc.) 1. check in the specialized catalogs (there are many for German, but unfortunately I miss them) 2. query on the forum (there are some very good German sites) If I don't get an affirmative answer (many plateflaws in the Michel catalog have the mention "Teilauflagen" - they don't appear on all prints - probably more plates used) 3. finding other stamps with the same deviation/flaw 4. identifying the position of the field of appearance. I have 2 examples of stamps: - one with the same plateflaw found at another collector but without field identification. -one different from the one mentioned by Michel in the respective field and confirmed by a collector that it is constant in the sheets he owns. Unfortunately, I don't think there are collectors on TSF with these concerns for German stamps as for these Portuguese Ceres. Yes gstamps , I too follow a similar approach to differentiate between coincidental printing faults and constant plate flaws. The first step is to identify them and confirm they are, in fact, constant; your examples and approach are good ones. The next step is to plate them when possible and confirm that the cliché, plate flaw, etc. are constant, stable and recurring in identical form on the same fields between sheets of the same issue. Here is an example of a constant or partly-constant plate flaw from the 3rd issue (1920-22), 3c. azul0 on 'liso' or smooth paper that is non-catalogued (N/C), Next step, see if one cannot find other examples that will help identify their location within the sheet...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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