DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 12, 2021 0:20:37 GMT
I found another cancelation. Quite a nice one on a certified SG38 2d. Looks like 6 bars. Could it be number 3 above? The space does not look wide enough. Or 5, but it does not have the surrounding thin line and has 6 instead of 5 bars (like Andrew's). Some of the features are very similar to Andrew's, so I suggest it is the same cancel. Did anyone find out what it is.  Nice SG38 Mark, just a wee corner crease bottom left but otherwise looks good :-) I will suggest that this is a 7-bar dumb obliterator, similar if not the same as the 5th item here on the unidentified list in vol.7 page 231:  Dave |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 12, 2021 0:24:10 GMT
Some more possibilities. Not sure where I got this, but it could have been from Gerald Elliot's site Looks like you got this one from Andrew Murphys site - not Gerald Ellott's. It is in the same style as Andrews pages :-) Dave |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 12, 2021 0:27:00 GMT
My guess is your No 1 ( the 3d ) is Ohinitahi Here is a cover ( which I admit is not mine ) showing front and back. Also copy of the Ohinitahi Cancel on a 2d blue ( which is mine ). Note that Ohinitahi ( Governor's Bay ) actually had two cancels like this. One with "square" sides and one with "curved" sides. Nice Grant. That Ohinetahi obliterator is both visually appealing and quite unique. Dave |
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DK
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Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 12, 2021 0:29:14 GMT
Here are some stamps of what I think are Davies prints with interesting patterns on the back based on the printed image, is this toning or some other effect? The perforated is certified as SG73 large star perf 13. Oxidation mainly Mark. Storage of these items hasn't been the best either I'd suggest :-) Dave |
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DK
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Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 12, 2021 0:37:18 GMT
Here are my Davies large star prints. Odenweller's sorting guide has a different set of colors and plate wear compared to SG. I tried to categorize them by color and plate wear, but the color is very hard to identify. Any suggestions? Should my blue worn plate be slate blue? Nice selection of the Davies 1862-64 2d blue there Mark. SG36-39 as you say. These are first arranged by plate wear - as the 2d blue really did wear quite badly between these 2 years. No wear - SG36 range of shades Early to slight wear - SG37-37a range of shades Intermediate Wear - SG38 range of shades Advanced wear - SG39 range of shades Dave |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 12, 2021 0:45:12 GMT
Here is the possible roulette after a soak. Looks like a roulette, but is the margin with the roulettes added? Is it rebacked? Note the blue in the top right corner, could that be used for plating? Would hydrogen peroxide get rid of the brown toning? It certainly looks a bit odd in places. I think that I'd probably leave this one well alone as it may not take too much more 'cleaning'. Dave PS The blue in the top right corner looks to be ink residue. If that is so, then it wouldnt have been a 'constant' thing (which is what platers look for). |
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skid
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What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 16, 2021 15:37:18 GMT
Does anyone know if there is a online version of the "the new zealand chalons quarterly" edited by Ken Lynch?
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 17, 2021 6:24:16 GMT
I haven't seen it online Mark.
There isn't much info on the net about it either.
Dave
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 18, 2021 23:33:33 GMT
Here are a couple of Chalons from my collection, both with the A/3 obliterator. Note the different shaped A's and 3's !  Dave NB: copied over from the Thames/Coromandel thread as relevant in this thread too  |
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skid
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What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 19, 2021 0:01:56 GMT
The duplex version (also copied from the Thames/Coromandel thread). This looks like the second version of the stamps Dave posted. My guess is that his first stamp is the original A/3 that was not a duplex.  |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 19, 2021 0:46:26 GMT
My guess is that his first stamp is the original A/3 that was not a duplex. In vol.3 of the RPSNZ books - p48 - it states that there were 3 obliterators with A/3 and 1 duplex. The first 3 obliterators were used at different offices in/around Thames - Type 1 at Thames - type 2 at Grahamstown & type 3 at Shortland. My first A/3 - on the 1d above - is of type 2 used at Grahamstown. My 2nd A/3 is of the duplex kind. Dave NB the Thames Postal District was constituted in 1871. |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 24, 2021 2:15:22 GMT
Here is an example of an irregular compound perf - perf 10 one side only SG130b
CP A2R(x)2d Orange-vermillion Retouched.  Dave |
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Jun 24, 2021 2:40:24 GMT
Hey Dave..Perf 10 one side only...??
Robert
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skid
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What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 24, 2021 4:15:14 GMT
Robert, it is the top that is perf 10. The bottom is a bit hard to see.
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 24, 2021 9:01:16 GMT
Yes. It is p10 at the top only.
It is p10x12½x12½x12½
Dave
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skid
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Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 26, 2021 17:06:34 GMT
Here is an example of an irregular compound perf - perf 10 one side only SG130b
CP A2R(x)2d Orange-vermillion Retouched. Dave Dave, how can you tell that this is retouched? This is something I have not got into yet. It looks worn to the right of the head, but how can you differentiate being worn from being retouched? |
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skid
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Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 26, 2021 19:22:37 GMT
Here is an example of an irregular compound perf - perf 10 one side only SG130b
CP A2R(x)2d Orange-vermillion Retouched. Dave Here are some of my perf 10 Clearly 10x12.5  10x10  10x12.5, but some of the top perfs look smaller, but it is not clear  10x12.5, but the bottom prefs look clearly smaller  How did these smaller perf 10 occur, are they faked (the last one is cut at the bottom, which might suggest faked), did they included smaller pins when they repaired it? What does this tell us about Dave's one side 10, in which the bottom is a bit unclear? |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 26, 2021 21:29:29 GMT
Dave, how can you tell that this is retouched? This is something I have not got into yet. It looks worn to the right of the head, but how can you differentiate being worn from being retouched? Good question Mark. It does just look worn doesn't it, like the worn 2d blue SG113 for example. The 2d plate was the only one of the 6 values produced to have a 2nd plate made and enter service. The 'new' plate 2 was first used in late 1865 and new printings appear around late 1865 - early 1866. The 'new' plate did not wear, but did suffer some 'damage' during the its first couple of years of use. This was clearly evident in the bottom third of the plate from rows 14 thru' 20. Jolliffe Rows 14/1 to 20/6 Jolliffe r19/5 & normal Davies 2d blue plate2 from same position Retouching is the process of strengthening parts of the design by the re-engraving of portions of the design by a skilled engraver. This was done in the case of plate 2 and the rows 14 thu' 20. Now, I am a bit lazy when it comes to my terminology of these items and usually refer to any plate2 2d from the damaged rows 14 - 20 as being retouched. Of course, not all positions were retouched, and some are more accurately better described as being 'unretouched but being from the damaged portion of plate 2'. Dave |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 26, 2021 21:43:19 GMT
How did these smaller perf 10 occur, are they faked (the last one is cut at the bottom, which might suggest faked), did they included smaller pins when they repaired it? The p10 was made by a Rotary p10 machine. It was used in later years as a 'fix up' machine to correct badly perforated sheets of other gauges. All p10 perforated stamps should have very clean cut perforations like this :  They are large, clean cut and very clear. I am not aware of any p10 being of a smaller pins type. Now, this item of yours Mark looks a bit suspect : 10x10 The LHS and possibly the top perfs look suspicious (ie reperfed). Perhaps Grant or Phil have some thoughts on this? As to the small pin use on this one : 10x12.5, but the bottom prefs look clearly smaller In my opinion this is not correct. The p10 holes should be large and clean cut in all instances. Dave |
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gc
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Post by gc on Jun 26, 2021 22:04:16 GMT
Here is an example of an irregular compound perf - perf 10 one side only SG130b
CP A2R(x)2d Orange-vermillion Retouched. Dave Here are some of my perf 10 Clearly 10x12.5 10x10 10x12.5, but some of the top perfs look smaller, but it is not clear 10x12.5, but the bottom prefs look clearly smaller How did these smaller perf 10 occur, are they faked (the last one is cut at the bottom, which might suggest faked), did they included smaller pins when they repaired it? What does this tell us about Dave's one side 10, in which the bottom is a bit unclear? Hi Mark A very interesting lot. I would hate to be an expert looking at those. For what it is worth: Your first one shows the true perf 10 on the bottom ( perfect example, and as a bonus has some residual paper still left within the perforations ). I think the top row has been enhanced. Your second one, again the top row just doesn't look right. Your third copy does appear to have irregularities at the top. And again the bottom perfs look too clean. I'm leaning toward you last copy being okay, even though some holes do look smaller than others. Albeit someone has trimmed the bottom off. Here are a couple of mine. 1. Perf 10 x 12.5 2. Perf 10 x 12.5 from Row 17, No 1 3. Perf 10 x 12.5 x 12.5 x 12.5 4. Perf 10 x 12.5 on cover 5. Perf 10 x 12.5 which is on Trade Me for sale at the moment 6. Perf 10 7. Perf 10 x 12.5 8. Perf 10 x 12.5 
 
 
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 26, 2021 22:58:38 GMT
Nice Grant. :-)
Dave
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 26, 2021 23:00:27 GMT
For clarity on my SG130b irregular compound perf 10 above here is a back scan of the perfs of it for clarification :  Dave |
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DK
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Post by DK on Jun 26, 2021 23:06:24 GMT
And here is a copy of SG128a 1d brown irregular compound perf. 3 sides p10 1 side p12½ - p10x12½x10x10 :  Dave |
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DK
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What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jun 26, 2021 23:12:01 GMT
And a SG131c 6d blue irregular compound perf. 1 side perf. 10 only p12½x12½x10x12½ Some chad left in the holes of the bottom row of p10.  Dave |
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Jun 26, 2021 23:26:28 GMT
Correct DK...
Robert
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skid
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Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 27, 2021 0:02:53 GMT
This perfing is difficult. They all look a bit dodgy to me. The only one that we can be certain about is Grants cover, which is tied by the cancel. The ones with chad left may be evidence of genuine 10p. From the look of those, genuine holes should be big and clean. Perhaps as the pins got old and used they may have become more irregular. I tried to compare mine to Grants cover. I have not worked out how to scale by a given percentage in my graphics software, so the scale may be a little off in the comparison (I guess I should work that out).  |
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skid
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Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 27, 2021 0:14:14 GMT
I think that the holes may have an enlarged appearance because when the stamps get torn apart, some of the edge around the hole is torn as well. As I think you can see here as the remaining chads on the bottom probably confirm it is genuine and that means the top is probably genuine as well.  |
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skid
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What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 27, 2021 5:00:58 GMT
Here are my Richardson 6d prints. This is what I think they are (numbering left to right top then bottom) Bistre-brown (SG12): 2, 10 Brown (SG13): all the rest Pale brown (SG14): 5,7 Chestnut (SG15): 1, 8? There are supposed to come in two types of paper hard or soft. They all appear to be hard to me, some stiffer than others. I probably have to soak them to see if the paper texture differs.  |
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gc
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Post by gc on Jun 27, 2021 5:06:53 GMT
This perfing is difficult. They all look a bit dodgy to me. The only one that we can be certain about is Grants cover, which is tied by the cancel. The ones with chad left may be evidence of genuine 10p. From the look of those, genuine holes should be big and clean. Perhaps as the pins got old and used they may have become more irregular. I tried to compare mine to Grants cover. I have not worked out how to scale by a given percentage in my graphics software, so the scale may be a little off in the comparison (I guess I should work that out). Here is another copy I have on piece ( unfortunately not on cover ) Perf 10 x 12.5 pair  |
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skid
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What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 27, 2021 5:24:56 GMT
Thanks Grant. That shows us that the 10p is not always nice and clean, the holes can be quite asymmetrical.
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