gc
Member 
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jun 27, 2021 5:40:05 GMT
Thanks Grant. That shows us that the 10p is not always nice and clean, the holes can be quite asymmetrical. Sorry, I did have two more pairs one from Row 18, Nos 5 and 6 ( the used pair ) and a mint pair Also a mixed perf variety perf 10 x 12.5 x 10 x 10 with RPSNZ Cert And an irregular perf variety perf 12.5 x 10 x 10 x 12.5 also with RPSNZ Cert 
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 27, 2021 21:43:16 GMT
RetroReveal is also good to identify cancelations. It made this CH.CH of Christchurch quite clear.   |
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WERT
Departed
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Jun 27, 2021 22:35:21 GMT
Skid..Just so you can see it better...
Robert
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jun 28, 2021 2:43:08 GMT
Thanks Robert,
How did you get the versions on the right?
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WERT
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Jun 28, 2021 2:58:30 GMT
Hi skid I don't use Windows or Mac...I use Linux There are lots and lots of free programs that i use. To do that i use SHOTWELL VIEWER and GWYDDION.
There are versions for Windows and Mac though.
Robert
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jul 22, 2021 22:29:18 GMT
Here are manuscript cancels with higher quality scans (Dave identified a couple of these in a previous post) 1) Possible K of Kingston  2) Possible Wellington district  3) Possible C obliterator, so a Canterbury district  4) Provence of Auckland CDS, so somewhere from there  5) Not sure what this is. Another Canterbury C obliterator?  6) Not sure what this is  7) Not sure what this is. Auckland obliterator.  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jul 30, 2021 20:59:44 GMT
Here is the only other L CDS of Christchurch(Lyttleton) that I can find in my books. The few others I have are incomplete and hard to say which L number they are. This is L10 of either Okain's Bay or Duvauchelle's Bay (in the RPSNZ Handbooks vol.7 page 190. L10 and L11 are not definitive but believed one is L10 and the other L11). SG36 1862-64 Davies - large star wmk.  I have recently received in from the UK another lot of Chalons. Amongst them was this nicely postmarked SG41. A CDS of L 11 as per above previous post. Dave  |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Aug 9, 2021 18:16:57 GMT
It looks rebacked to me Mark. Dave I soaked it. It removed the hinge remnant, but if it is rebacked, the backing did not come off. Still can't see the watermark. (the color is wrong for no watermark)     |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Aug 10, 2021 2:21:38 GMT
Yes indeed. 165 years ago. Seems like yesterday  Some people keep digitised copies of their collections on the net so can quickly reference their material whenever, wherever they need to. Jimbabwe certainly does that. Perhaps he could expand on this at some later point of time. I have a blog site that I am putting together also so may (actually WILL) use some of this info I create here for that. I am putting this together rather ad-hoc at present so there will invariably be gaps/omissions and mistakes etc but always happy to stand corrected (as I am from time to time  ) Thanks for the feedback Dave Dave, How is your blog site going? I am looking forward to see it. Regards, Mark |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 11, 2021 4:55:14 GMT
Hi Mark I haven't done any further work on it since I last mentioned it on here actually. I have been a bit remiss but have had a lot of distractions this past year. I will get back to it at some point in time, just not at the present. NZ Chalons BlogspotEnjoy! Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 11, 2021 4:59:36 GMT
It looks rebacked to me Mark. Dave I soaked it. It removed the hinge remnant, but if it is rebacked, the backing did not come off. Still can't see the watermark. (the color is wrong for no watermark) Definately still looks rebacked. The colour/shade reminds me of the NZ wmk copies of 1864. Can you see anything that looks like an NZ there? it would be very faint if rebacked. Dave |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Aug 20, 2021 14:42:50 GMT
I thought that someone might be interested in this transfer roller die image from Te Papa's website. It has really good resolution and interesting to look at close up.  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 20, 2021 22:24:39 GMT
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 21, 2021 7:19:26 GMT
Great images Dave.
I hope the viewers appreciate them.
Cheers Grant
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Post by tundrawolf on Aug 24, 2021 7:09:24 GMT
A recent acquisition.  Philip |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 24, 2021 21:02:24 GMT
Hi Philip
Is that a p12½ x 10 copy ?
SG127 !
Nice score if so. What was the circumstance around the purchase - clueless seller or lucky find? or perhaps an astute purchase :-)
Well done
Dave
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Post by tundrawolf on Aug 25, 2021 8:32:51 GMT
Certificate will be issued once lockdown is eased. It was in a mixed lot of very average stamps including a few chalons. Less than half the stamp showing so I expected 3 sides perf 12.5 but the price was right so I took the chance. I got lucky!!
Philip
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,986
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Aug 25, 2021 13:50:37 GMT
Congratulations Philip( tundrawolf )! You pays your money and you takes your chances; knowledge wins ;-)
For other readers or followers of the thread, you can see here what all the excitement is about,
1871-73 Chalon Issue, Perf. 12½ x 10 & Perf
AN EXCEPTIONALLY RARE STAMP WITH ONLY FIVE RECORDED EXAMPLES.
The five recorded examples of the 1d deep brown perf 12½x10 comprise 3 singles and a pair on cover. As an indication of rarity, an example of this stamp was not present in the Hackmey. This example has a Wellington province rectangular cancel that accords with the known usage. The pair on cover is cancelled with a Palmerston North cds and adjacent Foxton (11.27.71) datestamp.
If I am not mistaken, Philip's stamp would make it six and quite the find...
Happy collecting!
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 26, 2021 2:59:47 GMT
Indeed a rare find And nice to know that there are still hidden treasures awaiting to be found out there by us collectors ... I see that it is listed in SG at £4750 - not reflective of its rarity is my guess. How much would a classic US/GB stamp sell for if only 5-6 copies were known? Well done Philip! I look forward to seeing a pic of the cert when it arrives, and also a scan of the back if you'd be so kind. Dave NB I have a pic of another copy of the SG127 at the bottom of page 3 of this thread. PS BN 21 would be Invercargill usage ! |
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 26, 2021 5:08:31 GMT
Hi all Here is a scan of the SG127 pair on cover. Unfortunately this is NOT in my collection. Enjoy  |
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Post by tundrawolf on Aug 26, 2021 7:35:32 GMT
Thanks for the congrats, I was definitely lucky! Once I received it I was confident that it was genuine, fibres on the ends if the perforations consistent with being torn, ink from the heavy cancels soaked into those fibres and the close spacing of the impressions on the penny plate making it difficult to find an example wide enough to forge the vertical perfs had me convinced.
The cover shown above by Grant, and the other few examples, included Dave's pic on page 3, are all used in the Wellington district which is probably one of the reasons the expert committee spent a long time researching and evaluating my copy. A Hokitika cancel (see Vol 7 pg 224) was not what would be expected, but people who travelled in the 1870's often had writing materials and stamps with them so it's not completely surprising. I've seen a picture of an example with an "O" Otago obliterator but don't know if it's been certified.
Probably my best find to date, although I once found an OPSO overprint which is the only one of it's kind recorded so far.
Philip
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 26, 2021 20:02:08 GMT
Apologies for the confusion around the BN21 Philip and others. I should know better than not check things before publishing! For some reason I have BN21 associated with Invercargill.
The only canceller I can find with '21' associated with Invercargil is a duplex with a vertical barred obliterator and number 21.
Vol.3 of the RPSNZ page 81-82 shows a BN21 & a duplex 21 associated with Invercargill and notes that the BN21 was later transferred to Hokitika.
Vol.7 page 224 (as Philip notes above) shows a BN21 for Hokitika.
Vol.7 page 211 also states that:
"No evidence has been found to confirm the statement in PSNZ vol.3 p82 that obliterator 21 in oval of 11 horizontal bars was used at Invercargill and later transferred to Hokitika".
Great find nonetheless Philip. I am excited for you.
Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Aug 27, 2021 1:57:32 GMT
Ken Lynch has it valued at $12,000 used. His appendix N in Vol 3 is on the stamp.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 27, 2021 22:52:20 GMT
Ken Lynch has it valued at $12,000 used. His appendix N in Vol 3 is on the stamp. Yes. That would be $12,000 NZ dollars of course! @$8000 USD Here is an image from RPSNZ vol.3 of the Duplex 21 from Invercargill :  And a couple of the more usually seen C/21 & horizontal 11 bar BN from Hokitika.  Dave |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Aug 28, 2021 1:23:41 GMT
Any ideas about this stamp. Ink on lettering and ink on back. Is this an indication of putting printed sheets on top of wet sheets?   |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 28, 2021 22:12:00 GMT
That would be my thoughts on that Mark.
The placing of printed sheets on top of each other - and ink being transferred via dampness/pressure between the layers of printed sheets.
Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Aug 31, 2021 14:38:43 GMT
Does anyone know of a clear offset for a chalon (like my avatar picture)?
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,547
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Sept 1, 2021 23:01:01 GMT
There are no Chalons, that I know of, that have anything close to your 1898 2/- offset Mark.
The example of ink transfer - from other sheets as per your 6d Brown above - are about as good as it comes.
There are of course early ones with the 'blueing' effect - SG2 & SG3.
There are some 'thin' paper examples that show the design through from the front - 'Pelure' paper ones for example.
But nothing like your 2/- in your avatar.
Dave
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Sept 2, 2021 6:25:00 GMT
Hi Guys I haven't seen a full offset, but I do have a partial one ( albeit very very small section ) It is a SG133 Cheers Grant   |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Sept 2, 2021 17:45:20 GMT
That's an interesting one. Is that a 1d brown on the back of a 2d orange? If correct, that implies that a single printing included both 1d and 2d within the same time it takes the ink to dry. This would require changing plates quickly. Or is it simply that the orange ink on the back has oxidised to brown?
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