DK
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Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Dec 17, 2021 7:54:57 GMT
Well done Philip.
It is amazing that someone rolled the cutting wheel over it so haphazardly !
Either way, it is officially a rouletted Davies print now - with RPSNZ cert to say so! :-)
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Dec 17, 2021 22:12:31 GMT
Well, having looked thru' all of my copies of SG113, worn plate I, these are the best I can show of the wear showing on dated examples : 1) Mar 18 65 2) Oct 18 65 3) JA 18 66 4) MR 7 66 5) AP 7 66  And one on piece : 6) JY 8 1865  Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Dec 18, 2021 20:16:19 GMT
These are the only SG113 Plate I mint (unused) that I have. Shame that the 3rd one has trimmed perfs, but we take what we can :-)  and of SG114/115 the 'new' Plate II mint:   Dave |
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DK
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Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Dec 18, 2021 20:34:48 GMT
The 2d blue plate I was wearing badly from 1863 to 1864 and eventually to 1865 when it was finally replaced with plate II. Thru' 1863/64 some different papers were used due to shortages of the 'large star' paper. 'Pelure' paper was used, as was a 'Provisional' unwatermarked paper, and also the 'NZ' wmk paper. Here are 4 examples of the 'NZ' wmk paper p12½ SG107. It is interesting to note that they seemed to have great difficulty with the perf machine at this time as the perfs on the examples I have are not great: (please excuse the surface rubs on the last example)!  Dave |
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gc
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Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Dec 19, 2021 5:09:47 GMT
Hi Dave / Philip
Great images Dave, showing shade variations.
And congrats Philip on the roulette, a ripper.
Cheers Grant
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jan 3, 2022 3:53:11 GMT
Happy new year everyone! I noticed that the perforations for the 2d new colour orange are quite poor on many stamps. Here is a particularly poor one. Does anyone now why the perforations are so poor. It is hard to tell if this is p12.5 or something else.   |
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brightonpete
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
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Post by brightonpete on Jan 3, 2022 15:49:59 GMT
Just looking at your photo, I'd say that those perfs are due to the poor quality of the paper. It looks quite fibrous to me.
Peter
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 10, 2022 4:08:06 GMT
I noticed that the perforations for the 2d new colour orange are quite poor on many stamps. Here is a particularly poor one. Does anyone now why the perforations are so poor. It is hard to tell if this is p12.5 or something else. Happy New Year Back into it after a good break over Xmas New Year (It's Summer here in NZ!) Mark - It can only be p12.5 or 10x12.5 with these of course, but I know what you mean :-) It probably caused by a combination of roughish paper and poor pin quality on the perforation machines. It would be interesting to compare some poor perforation copies on your 2d Vermillion above with some good ones. I will go thru' my books tomorrow and see what I can find for you to see. Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 10, 2022 4:17:05 GMT
*** FAIR WARNING ***A Major NZ Chalon Sale upcoming @ SPINK of London The 'Lionheart' Collection of New Zealand - Part I
The 'Lionheart' Collection of New Zealand - Part I Location: Spink London Date & Time: Wednesday 26th January 2022 - 10:00am Lionheart Collection of New Zealand - Part I
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 10, 2022 4:22:19 GMT
PS The Auction Catalogue for the above auction is a free download if you need to save it for future reference.
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 10, 2022 23:55:23 GMT
I noticed that the perforations for the 2d new colour orange are quite poor on many stamps. Here is a particularly poor one. Does anyone now why the perforations are so poor. It is hard to tell if this is p12.5 or something else. It is probably caused by a combination of roughish paper and poor pin quality on the perforation machines. It would be interesting to compare some poor perforation copies on your 2d Vermillion above with some good ones. I will go thru' my books tomorrow and see what I can find for you to see. Here as promised are a few to compare - both SG133 & SG134 These are all on the 'Star' wmk paper as per your one shown above, Mark. Seems to be consistantly, inconsistant. There must be a premium to be paid for excellent centering and perforation! (as always).  Dave |
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DK
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Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 11, 2022 0:02:16 GMT
And here are 3 different papers: 'Star' - SG 134'No wmk' - SG 138'NZ' - SG 141 Dave |
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skid
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Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jan 12, 2022 1:09:35 GMT
These are all on the 'Star' wmk paper as per your one shown above, Mark. Seems to be consistantly, inconsistant. There must be a premium to be paid for excellent centering and perforation! (as always). Dave Thanks Dave, It would be interesting to see a scan of the backs of these stamps to see if the poor perforation ones have different paper. Regards, Mark |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 12, 2022 21:09:30 GMT
Hi Mark I got those stamps back out of the album & scanned them in for you to see the backs (luckily they are all clean albeit with the odd thin on the lower central item). They all look to be on the same rough wove 'large star' paper from England - Rush Mills - which would have been used throughout the Empire at that time. The only one that looks remotely different in texture is the very last one which appears whiter and smoother.  I hope this helps. Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 12, 2022 21:27:24 GMT
A recent purchase: SG2 2d 'London' print pair. SG list it as Dull blue SG2
CP has it as A2a Deep (greenish) blue  Another mis-described lot from our dealer friend on Trademe who listed it as a Davies print SG36 ! My good fortune :-) Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 13, 2022 2:48:51 GMT
Another one just received. Described by the seller as : New Zealand good Used Very Fine stamp (large star wtmk)I noted that it appeared as brown-lilac so presumed 1862-64 Davies p13. Put the perf. gauge on it and it measures 12½x12¾. This now makes it SG116 - p12½ !! cat at £650 I am rapt :-) SG states:The above issue is sometimes difficult to distinguish from nos.68/80 (p13 issue) because the vertical perforations usually gauge 12¾ and sometimes a full 13. However, stamps of this issue invariably gauge 12½ horizontally, whereas the 1862 stamps measure a full 13.  Dave |
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JeffS
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What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jan 13, 2022 3:00:14 GMT
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 13, 2022 4:43:28 GMT
Hey Dave
Both beauties, especially SG2 ( and with 12 cancels )
Congrats Grant
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DK
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Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 13, 2022 6:23:40 GMT
Thanks Jeff & Grant. Appreciated :-)
Grant
Yes. It is a PB '12' of Petre (Wanganui/Whanganui).
Nice to see that one.
PB'12' was in use from 1855/56 until it wore out approx. early 1865. Wanganui also had PB '8' allocated to it.
NB Nice to see your article in the New Zealand Stamp Collector over Xmas too Grant. An interesting story surrounding the current earliest use of a Davies print on cover.
Well done
Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jan 13, 2022 7:47:37 GMT
A recent purchase: SG2 2d 'London' print pair. SG list it as Dull blue SG2
CP has it as A2a Deep (greenish) blue Another mis-described lot from our dealer friend on Trademe who listed it as a Davies print SG36 ! My good fortune :-) Dave Very nice. A pair and in good condition. Can you add a scan of the reverse to show the blueing. Thanks. |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 13, 2022 20:08:19 GMT
Here you go. Not too bad is it ! :-)  Dave |
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Post by tundrawolf on Jan 13, 2022 23:20:58 GMT
Currently travelling in the South Island so away from stamps and reference material but a couple of comments,
Well done on the London Print pair Dave,great score. The 3d brown-lilac I’m not so sure about. My memory is that the perf 12.5 was perforated by one of the two comb machines, regular or irregular, and yours appears to be line perforated.
The two perf 12.5 machines are probably the explanation for the variation in the perfs on the 2d’s shown earlier. Both were converted to line machines and may have been at different stages of wear.
Philip
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 14, 2022 2:10:21 GMT
Hi Philip Good to hear from you. I trust you are having an enjoyable and relaxing time of it. Thanks for your feedback. I am most pleased with the SG2 pair. Our dealer friend from Christchurch seems to have some issues ID'ing his stock from time to time - unless he has a 3rd party doing it for him of course! Now to the 3d brown-lilac. We agree that it is either of SG74 p13 all round - or possibly SG116 p12.5 (variable between 12.5 and 12.75). As mentioned above SG state in effect only that so long as the horizontal perfs are 12.5 and not a full 13 then it is SG116 p12.5 However, reading the CP after your comments I read the following regarding A3d(1) or SG116: All copies of A3d(1) were perforated by comb head. Comb head characteristics are an essential factor in identifying this scarce issue as it is easily confused with the earlier line perf gauging 13.With my copy as shown above we only really have 2 maybe 3 corners of the stamp to look at the comb head characteristics. I admit they look more line than comb perf - but it is not conclusive to me. So I have tried (tried being the operative word here!) using the macro function on my little Canon IXUS camera to highlight the perforations. Firstly I will show the horizontal perforations on a true SG74 p13 copy - both at p12.5 & at p13  Secondly the 'alleged' p12.5 SG116 at both p12.5 & at p13 horizontally then vertically   And following all of this evidence my lord, I rest my case ...... and resort to the standard line of ' it needs an opinion' to confirm or deny ... Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 14, 2022 2:52:35 GMT
I have pulled out Odenwellers book 'The Postage Stamps of New Zealand: 1855 - 1873 The Chalon Head Issues - and have just read the following regarding the comb heads used on the Governments first perforating machine installed at Auckland and used for the first time in June of 1864 :
page 129 discussing the differences in the 'regular' comb head and the 'irregular' comb head :
"Besides the variability in perforation on the vertical sides of the stamps, the pins at the top left and right of the irregular head do not always meet at the same junction. Stamps perforated with this head could resemble line perforated stamps to the unpracticed eye."
So, we have Odenweller stating that the 'irregular' comb head holes could resemble line perforated ones at the top and bottom junctions of each row of perforation holes (unlike the 'regular' comb head characteristics).
Dave
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Post by tundrawolf on Jan 14, 2022 3:21:30 GMT
Beautiful weather on the west coast of the South Island at the moment, making the most of it.
I agreed with what you’ve posted and from your photos I can see why you concluded perf 12.5 but I based my suspicion on two observations, perforations on the comb heads line up side to side and the vertical sides have 16 pins, yours appears to have 17 and don’t line up. Definitely a difficult one, I would probably put a question mark next to it if it was mine.
Philip
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 14, 2022 3:41:20 GMT
I concur that the holes should line up on a 'comb' head - and my one doesnt appear to - I also count 17 on the vertical and the Odenweller book states that it should be 16 - any more or less means 'line' perf.
So, if it is SG74, p13, I wonder why the perforation holes don't match the exact count on the gauge as the true p13 one does? A mystery ...
Do you think that the perforations look forged? A possibilty ...
Well that relaxing fresh, sea air of the West Coast is definitely not clouding your philatelic judgement - still batting 100 as they say!
I will put a question mark next to it. Either way whether SG74 or SG116, a good score at US$19.50
Thanks for your input yet again.
Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jan 14, 2022 7:26:15 GMT
Here you go. Not too bad is it ! :-) Thanks Dave, very nice indeed. A hard one to misidentify. |
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 15, 2022 4:25:13 GMT
Hi Guys I treated myself to a Xmas preset and brought what I hope is a genuine SG116 mint ( see attached ) Currently waiting on a certificate. There is a large variation in both SG117 and SG118 shades. Cheers Grant  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 15, 2022 8:50:26 GMT
Hi Grant
Wow - Nice Xmas present!
Any chance of you posting a hi-res pic of it here.
I would love to see it in detail. It would be great to see this rare stamp in its true 'comb' state.
Dave
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 15, 2022 9:00:43 GMT
Hi Dave Here it is Cheers Grant  |
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