stanley64
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Posts: 1,986
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 15, 2022 11:09:35 GMT
Hi Guys I treated myself to a Xmas preset and brought what I hope is a genuine SG116 mint ( see attached ) Currently waiting on a certificate. There is a large variation in both SG117 and SG118 shades. Cheers Grant 
A nice Christmas gift to one's self indeed Grant ( gc); beauties, they are :-) Looking at the SG117 series, you might want to re-visit the mounting the top row for the 'Lilac' and 'Pale-lilac' issues as they appear reversed, at least on my screen and to my eyes... Happy collecting! |
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 15, 2022 21:02:48 GMT
Many thanks stanley64, yes I think are spot on.
I will make the changes at my end.
Cheers Grant
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 15, 2022 21:40:03 GMT
Nice 116 Grant. Very rare :-)
Hobbs Collection ! Did you get anything else from that lot?
Some nice items in there for sure ...
Dave
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 16, 2022 0:10:16 GMT
Yes really splashed out.
Got the SG121 orange-yellow mint. Certainly not a perfect copy but exceedingly rare mint.
Also got SG137b with part T H SAUNDERS w/m, again they don't come up very often.
Cheers Grant
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 16, 2022 5:54:39 GMT
Hi Stanley64 Here is the updated sheet. I actually had a RPSNZ Cert for it, as I optimistically thought it may have been a brown-lilac SG116 I have also added a few more of my 3d items. Note the different Lilac shades and also the different Bluish-lilac shades. For a closer look you should be able to click on the sheet and zoom in. Grant  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 16, 2022 7:26:08 GMT
Lovely as always Grant ...
They say that this is a visual hobby - and you prove it is ! :-)
Dave
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Post by tundrawolf on Jan 16, 2022 9:22:06 GMT
A truly wonderful display Grant, lovely rich shades and all fine examples.
Your brown-lilac perf 12.5 is interesting, given it’s provenance and the person who sold it, it has to be genuine so to explain the top right corner which doesn’t fit with the comb perforation, I’m thinking the sheet must’ve been perforated from the bottom to the top. It will be interesting to see if the certificate mentions anything like that.
Always look forward to your posts.
Philip
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 17, 2022 4:30:52 GMT
Hi Philip
There is now enough evidence proving that some ( all ) of the sheets that were line perforated were rotated at some stage during the perforating process.
I wonder if some of the sheets were rotated during comb perforation process ?
Food for thought
Grant
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Post by jimbabwe on Jan 17, 2022 21:38:19 GMT
On the subject of SG 116 and comb perfs, this is my example and it does have an Odenweller cert. Three out of four corners look comb but not sure about the top left.  |
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,986
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 18, 2022 9:21:45 GMT
Looking sharp Grant( gc); that is an impressive looking page and study of the 3D Chalon :-)
The lilac shades probably would have not caught my eye as they did, but whilst I was working on my own collection of the Portuguese Ceres issues with similar colour shade variants as posted here, it was cause for a more in-depth view and questions.
One again, great stuff...
Happy collecting!
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 19, 2022 7:17:20 GMT
Nice example of a 'comb' perf Jim.
I know it has an 'Odenweller' cert but what does the cert say? Anything about that top left corner? I don't imagine it does.
My only comment is on the color. I don't see much brown in the brown-lilac shade.
It looks mauve on my screen.
How does it look in real life and against your other 3d shades?
Dave
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Jan 20, 2022 18:03:42 GMT
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 22, 2022 1:04:20 GMT
Here are the SG116/117/118 range of shades as per CP as I see them (and comparing to Grants mint ones shown above) : SG116 brown-lilac CPA3d (1)
SG117 lilac CPA3d (2) lilac CPA3d (3) pale lilac CPA3d (4) deep lilac CPA3d (5) slate-lilac CPA3d (6) bluish lilac CPA3d (7) mauve lilac  SG118 mauve CPA3d (8) deep mauve CPA3d (9) mauve CPA3d (10) pale mauve  Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 22, 2022 1:15:38 GMT
Now, getting back to the SG116 I showed earlier on up the thread, and the debate about it being the SG116 'comb' perf. Well until I get it certified then it will sit in my books with a question mark next to it due to Philips observations and documented points regarding 'genuine' 116's. However, because I am not letting it go that easily I thought that I would do a couple of perf comparisons with known p12½ copies. I believe that my 116 match the 2 comparison Chalons pretty well. Firstly it is compared with an SG117 lilac both vertically and horizontally :   and also with an SG120 yellow (only produced with p12½) :  so in my mind this is SG116/CP A3d(1) as it is the brown lilac shade and measures p12½. But, as CP state in their catalog all 'genuine' examples of this stamp need to show clear 'comb' characteristics and have only 16 holes on the vertical. As Grant says, 'Food for thought' ........ who'd be an expert! :-) Dave |
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 24, 2022 6:37:45 GMT
Hi Dave
Great to see all the shades lined up. I especially like the clarity of your deep-lilac
Cheers Grant
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 27, 2022 23:12:54 GMT
Hi all
Here's one I am struggling with answers for.
I just brought it foe the hell of it.
It was listed as double perfs vertically ( virtually all blind perfs ).
Question is:
Is it possible to have a double perfs with a well centred stamp ?. I assume this has had to have been a comb perf ?.
If so there doesn't seem to be any sign of double perf ( re-perfing ) along the top.
Any thoughts guys.
Thanks Grant
BUGGER, cant seem to add any images at the moment ??
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 27, 2022 23:13:36 GMT
Here they are now  
Just realized I had this pair too, so same questions apply.  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 28, 2022 20:14:00 GMT
The top single 6d - are those 2nd line of perfs actual indentations or are they just ink marks? I cannot see indentations so wonder if they are 'blind' perfs.
Otherwise I don't see why they would have perfed it for a 2nd time.
The pair looks more interesting.
Could it be that this pair had the original central vertical line of perfs missed, ie this was an imperf pair between, which has been corrected with a line p12½, and while they were at it with the line perforator they added a 2nd line of perfs down the LHS of the left stamp to centralise it?
It is hard to know for sure what their thought processes were around it. I guess they had their reasons tho'.
Dave
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 29, 2022 1:01:46 GMT
Hi Dave Yes definitely indentations ( and yes blind perfs ) Looking carefully at the front scan you can see the "round" perfs still there. Really weird I have also updated the 3d page to reflect my plate proofs and Hausburg reprints. That way people can see the progressive wear on the plate. Grant  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 29, 2022 2:19:04 GMT
Very nice Grant.
Not a lot of wear evident, I guess they didn't print as many as they did as the 1d, 2d & the 6d.
Just a brief comment on your display of 3d's above :
The Hausburg reprints should be dated 1905/6
It was the official 'Presentation' copies that were 1884.
Dave
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 29, 2022 4:36:20 GMT
Uummmm You have an eagle eye, thanks heaps   Yes it is 1905/6 Cheers Grant |
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Post by jimbabwe on Jan 31, 2022 21:25:43 GMT
Nice example of a 'comb' perf Jim. I know it has an 'Odenweller' cert but what does the cert say? Anything about that top left corner? I don't imagine it does. My only comment is on the color. I don't see much brown in the brown-lilac shade. It looks mauve on my screen. How does it look in real life and against your other 3d shades? Dave Hi Dave, the colour is a good match for the 1862 print. No mention on certificate of the top corner. I've just picked up another of these with a Kowai cancel too... 
Perf 12.5 shades 
Imperf (one provisional, one apparently clipped perfs), P12.5 main shades, roulette 7 and perf 13 
from Mr Baltic. Kowai on brown lilac P12.5 (matches 4d perfs) |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Feb 2, 2022 19:28:06 GMT
Hi Dave, the colour is a good match for the 1862 print. That 3d I queried earlier Jim, about the brown component in the brown-lilac shade, certainly does look to be there, albeit not strongly, in the picture above. Cheers Dave |
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Post by Bas S Warwick on Feb 4, 2022 21:02:17 GMT
I received an auction catalogue today from ACS - The Bob Odenweller Collection - Part 2
Amazing Chalon collection up for grabs March 5th
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Feb 6, 2022 23:08:54 GMT
Indeed. Part 1 was held last year with some good results achieved. Here is the link to Auckland City Stamps website and also to the Auction Catalogue : ACS WebsiteBob Odenweller Reference Collection: Part 2 Out of curiosity, does anyone here know how Bob is doing healthwise? Dave |
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alan
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Posts: 50
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Post by alan on Feb 11, 2022 1:32:46 GMT
Hi Dave, Looks like this thread is your home. The earlier pix were of the Queen Victoria 1p These pix are of the Queen Victoria 2p (1855 / 1862) That large star watermark which should be visible here is definitely not the watermark I sketched out; that's my dilemma because it's not a six-pointed large star like this one; it's a cross with a slightly squiggly top par with 3 narrow short triangles at the base. I will try to get a larger picture of the back so you can see it more clearly (stay tuned!) Alan   |
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,889 
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Feb 11, 2022 1:43:59 GMT
Hi Dave, Looks like this thread is your home. The earlier pix were of the Queen Victoria 1p These pix are of the Queen Victoria 2p (1855 / 1862) That large star watermark which should be visible here is definitely not the watermark I sketched out; that's my dilemma because it's not a six-pointed large star like this one; it's a cross with a slightly squiggly top par with 3 narrow short triangles at the base. I will try to get a larger picture of the back so you can see it more clearly (stay tuned!) Alan I did a quick crop for you Alan.   |
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alan
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Post by alan on Feb 11, 2022 1:54:54 GMT
I just added closer pix of this mystery watermark along with another quick sketch. Definitely not a 6-pointed large star; that cross shape is visible so I hope you can see it now. Alam  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Feb 11, 2022 1:56:28 GMT
Nice one Alan. :-)
Pictures like that (or preferably a bit larger) are excellent, and enable us to give you a better response.
That is SG38 (Scott 12) Plate I Davies print from 1862-64
Large Star wmk, white wove paper, Imperf
You also notice the wear on the plate, around the Queens head etc. That is a giveaway and tells us that it is NOT an SG2 (Scott 2).
SG 2 was a Greenish blue, usually with a degree of bluing on the back, and of a fine print quality (usually, although we have seen some shown here that are over inked etc).
So yours is SG 38 (Scott 12) unused, 3 margins, Davies print of 1862-64 series, from the worn plate I (the wear got so bad that they eventually replaced plate I with plate II).
Dave
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alan
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Inactive
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Post by alan on Feb 11, 2022 1:56:48 GMT
Dave,
Thanks for the crop of that unused blue Queen Victoria 2p: MUCH BETTER!
Alan
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