DK
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Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 2, 2023 6:45:08 GMT
A trifecta of them!
Its like buying a car you like and then seeing that exact model being driven everywhere by everybody else :-)
I was pleased to see the CP catalog listing for them and also pleased with the catalog CV. I hope this doesn't de-value our copies too much, lol.
Dave
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gc
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Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 2, 2023 8:49:06 GMT
Too true Dave I am curious to know if one of these pairs was the basis for inclusion in the catalogue, or in fact is there another pair out there The mystery goes on ?
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 3, 2023 0:42:44 GMT
At the recently concluded 'Ken Lynch' sale of NZ Chalons I managed to purchase a few nice items. I won't show them all but will show a couple of interesting bits. SG110 1d Carmine-vermillion - strip of 5 used: 'a few perf issues' but a nice strip all the same :-) NB PB obliterator '2' of Russell Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 3, 2023 1:08:22 GMT
SG139a 1873 4d Orange-yellow - no wmk, but with papermakers double lined wmk of TH Saunders. Mint with original gum. Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 3, 2023 21:33:19 GMT
From another source : I recently bought this page of SG113/114 2d blue 1864-71 perf. 12½, quite cheaply I might add :-) Quite apart from the CDS cancels I saw on a couple of these, I also noticed something else!! On this one, quite clearly marked 'Christchurch' underneath it, is an obliterator type NOT of Christchurch, which should have a large 'C' within the obliterator cancel if it were so, but another letter! It is an 'X' within the obliterator ..... This obliterator type was used at Chatham Islands - during the 1860s. Not a very populated island today, let alone 150 odd years ago. A nice find, even if I say so myself :-) Dave
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gc
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Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 4, 2023 5:47:25 GMT
Nice items Dave I like the strip of 5, would have looked great on cover
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 9, 2023 22:41:59 GMT
A few more Chalons with CDS cancellations received in recently : SG110, SG132, SG72 & SG136 Dave
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 13, 2023 14:35:56 GMT
This sad little lady has turned up ........Not my collecting area, so do I destroy it as not even worthy of Spacefiller status? Perf 12 1/2 watermark star used at INVERCARGILL 1872 ( date revised thanks DK) Believed to be SG 117 Lilac.
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,889
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Aug 13, 2023 14:56:59 GMT
This sad little lady has turned up ........Not my collecting area, so do I destroy it as not even worthy of Spacefiller status? Perf 12 1/2 watermark star used at INVERCARGILL 1878 Believed to be SG 117 Lilac. When you look on eBay this is pretty typical for used copies of this stamp. The down side is that there are so many available that it would take for ever to find a buyer. The colour on your damaged one is better than most but due to the condition it is still just worth maybe a pound. I would not trash it but toss it in with a job lot sometime.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 13, 2023 21:37:46 GMT
It is a bit 'sad' looking isn't it! I find it hard to toss faulty 'Chalons' away. Aussie 'Roo's' I have no problem in chucking if badly damaged tho' :-) Perhaps somebody else may like it as an example of a 'Chalon' if they don't have one (ie a giveaway here), or, like hdm1950 says "I would not trash it but toss it in with a job lot sometime". I have a couple of stockpages of 'faulty' ones that I will flick off cheaply at some stage too :-) BTW I think that year date is '72' not '78'. Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 13, 2023 23:00:57 GMT
When you look on eBay this is pretty typical for used copies of this stamp. So, just to balance this poor example of the 3d lilac SG117, here are a few slightly better ones :-) Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 15, 2023 22:00:51 GMT
Here is an interesting one :-) SG13 6d brown - Richardson Printing Bought not for the nice stamp, such as it is per se, but for the small tuft of uncut paper to the top left. In Robert Odenweller's book - The Postage Stamps of New Zealand: 1855 - 1873 - The Chalon Head Issues On page 68Chapter 4: The Richardson Prints - The White Paper Prints He states: As noted before, virtually all stamps until about 1861 were provided in horizontal strips. In at least one location in the province of Otago, a postal clerk or postmaster made preparations for quick sales by cutting the strips between each stamp most of the way to the top, leaving a small piece of about 2mm length to hold the strip together. The result was something on the order of 'paper dolls' when it came time to sell the stamps, saving the need to cut each one individually at the point of sale.
Stamps from 'London' prints through the white paper prints have been found with the small tufts of paper at top left and right that identify these stamps. These include a 1/- London print and a pair of the white paper 1/- on cover, all cancelled in the province of Otago. Although they may well be considered to be an actual separation variety, the variety may be considered to be more in the nature of a curiosity than a major collectible form.I am pleased to have it, 3 margins and a couple of very minor marginal thins included :-) Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 17, 2023 23:50:36 GMT
I have been catching up on back issues of the 'New Zealand Stamp Collector' - available on the RPSNZ website - and found this letter from 2017 to the Editor of the magazine from our own gc - Grant. Thought for the day!
Interesting thought there Grant - although said with 'tounge in cheek' no doubt! :-) So, with that thought in my mind now, I wonder what value this piece would be? 4d?, 5d? or 6d? The above strip of 3 is SG38 ex Prof. Derek Diamond from the below page of 2d's: Dave
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gc
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Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 19, 2023 0:05:37 GMT
Yes Dave, interesting question indeed.
Very nice page, is it yours?
Grant
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 19, 2023 3:22:36 GMT
Just the 2d strip of 3 ( or 2¾ actually! ) is mine. Bought a few years ago, following the Prof. Derek Diamond sale.
The page image came from his auction of that time, so not mine :-(
NB: Will you have a copy of your RPSNZ talk from the Te Papa Archives visit upcoming? I cannot make it down there for it but would love to see your presentation, following the talk, if available.
Cheers
Dave
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gc
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Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 19, 2023 4:09:20 GMT
Hi Dave At this stage I haven't prepared a "presentation" as such. I have a few scans I have put together on a Powerpoint slide show. As I put each image up on the screen, I hope to talk briefly about each one. Very informal. Thought the readers might this I brought a little while ago. I really liked it for the super clear San Francisco cancellation. And not too many Chalon covers to the US. Cheers Grant
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 19, 2023 4:40:32 GMT
A lovely cover Grant, and interesting too! It is sent from Russell - formerly known as Kororareka (and originally a stopover for American Whalers prior to the annexation and colonization of NZ in 1840). The whaling connection is continued with the destination address as well - Edgartown, Massachusetts USA! From Wikipedia: Edgartown, Mass Edgartown is a tourist destination on the island of Martha's Vineyard in Dukes County, Massachusetts, United States, for which it is the county seat.
It was once a major whaling port, with historic houses that have been carefully preserved. Today it hosts yachting events around its large harbor. It includes the smaller island of Chappaquiddick.
Edgartown is a part of Massachusetts's 9th congressional district, represented in the Massachusetts Senate as a portion of the Cape and Islands district. The town's population was 5,168 at the 2020 census.The stamps are noted by you as SG122 - therefore in the 1864-71 period. Does the cover have any date stamps indicating the date sent on the rear of it? Dave
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gc
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Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 19, 2023 4:50:11 GMT
Hi Dave Yes Auckland CDS on rear ( JU 1 1870 ) and Russell ( MY 27 1870 ) Also noted the "San Francisco" route opened on 2 April 1870, and for four months only the charge was 1/- per 1/2 oz, after which it was reduced to 6d. So, a very short period where the rate was 1/-. Cheers Grant
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DK
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Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 19, 2023 4:56:45 GMT
Well the dates fit with the stamps then! Nice :-)
I wonder if there are any "Wimpenney's" still residing in Edgartown, Mass. ?
We can probably work out the boat it went to the States on from that information. I will take a look into it tomorrow ....
Dave
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gc
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Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 19, 2023 5:07:57 GMT
Hi Dave There is an article on this cover in NZSC Volume 101, No 1 March 2021 I also like the fact that there are parts of 9 stamps all up, as part of and surrounding the pair Cheers Grant
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 19, 2023 21:23:34 GMT
Very interesting article Grant. The article itself was in a copy of the NZSC magazine I hadnt read previously. Here is a quick jist of the article for others interested : The 1st two covers above went to San Francisco via Honolulu aboard the SS Wonga Wonga which departed Auckland on June 6 1870 Dave
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DK
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Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 19, 2023 21:44:22 GMT
The ASN Wonga Wonga was 662 gross tons, 207.2 feet long with a beam of 25.3 feet, had one funnel and three masts, and accommodation for 54 saloon, 50 intermediate and 120 steerage passengers. This vessel enjoyed more than a decade of successful operation on the Australian coastal trades as a single-funnel steamer. However, in 1868 it was refurbished; it was cut in two and lengthened by 37 feet, had extra accommodation fitted, and new boilers and a second funnel were added. This was the appearance of the ship in the painting by Charles Dickson Gregory. In 1870, this Wonga Wonga was chartered from the ASN by HH (Hayden Hezekiah) Hall, to carry mail and passengers from Sydney to Hawaii, from where they were transported to San Francisco on US ships. Hall had secured the initial contract for the mail service with the New Zealand government, with the New South Wales colonial government agreeing to provide a subsidy for the service for 12 months. The SS Wonga Wonga, the first ship to carry mail from Sydney, via Auckland to Honolulu, en route to San Francisco. Dave
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gc
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Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 20, 2023 0:24:30 GMT
Great research Dave
I hope the readers appreciate it. Well done.
Cheers Grant
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gc
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Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 20, 2023 5:54:36 GMT
Hi Dave I decided to buy this cover a little while back, as it is a "proving" cover of the Tutaenui "mute" cancel. Note the postmaster had been authorized to manufacture his own “mute” cancellation of bars and an unframed CDS (on reverse). Cheers Grant
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 20, 2023 7:52:55 GMT
Again, a very nice cover Grant.
I am very jealous :-)
As you may recall, when we were on that 'other' site, I was collecting 'Tutaenui' cancels on Chalons then. I had one with a double strike of the above obliterator.
I am in Auckland until Wednesday now, but will show some of the Chalons I have with that postmark upon my return.
NB: Tutaenui was renamed 'Marton' at some stage in the 1870's.
And how unusual to see 'AG' for the month of August on that CDS! It is usually either 'AU' or 'AUG' - very odd!
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 24, 2023 21:10:07 GMT
As promised here are some more Tutaenui 'dumb' obliterators on Chalons : Note the one with a double strike of the obliterator .... And one on a nice copy of SG141 NZ wmk : NB:All of the copies of this obliterator I have are either on a 2d or 6d value. 2d was the domestic inland rate for that time and 6d was the overseas rate for a ½oz letter. Dave
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 25, 2023 7:28:38 GMT
Hey Dave Thanks for the images, really nice SG141 I had a rush of blood and brought this. Any idea on what it might be ? Cheers GRant
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 26, 2023 4:26:13 GMT
I havent seen that particular obliterator Grant.
On page 67 of vol.3 RPSNZ handbooks there is a very similar 6 barred obliterator such as yours above, but it doesnt have any breaks in it. It was used at Kowai, north of Christchurch.
I will keep a look out for you though and advise if any matching it exactly turns up.
Dave
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Aug 26, 2023 19:49:22 GMT
Many thanks Dave, I completely overlooked the chapter in Volume III.
Yes, it is possible match. Like you I don't know whether the "gaps" in the bars on my copy are supposed to be there, or a flaw in the cancellation.
I noticed Item No 23 on page 66. Do you think this could also be a match ?. Noting the second to last line is narrow both on my copy and the image on page 66. Also noted is the description given in volume III regarding images 24 and 24A ( "Breaks developed in some of the thinner bars until it reached the state as shown in No. 24A")
Do you think that maybe "breaks" could have occurred in my copy ?
Tricky one
Cheers GRant
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 27, 2023 1:08:41 GMT
Agreed that the 'Selwyn' cancel looks more similar to yours, especially with that thin 5th bar.
I am not sure what would have caused the breaks in your copy (above) however. Damage to the obliterator or a creased envelope it was affixed to?
Dave
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