DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 6, 2024 1:37:41 GMT
An L letter/number combo on SG40 from Christchurch Postal District - Woodend: Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 6, 2024 1:41:15 GMT
An O21 of Popotonua in the Otago Postal District: Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 6, 2024 1:44:10 GMT
An 11 barred numeral ' 6' of Riverton: Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 6, 2024 1:47:11 GMT
Tic Tac Toe ms of Wellington Postal District: Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 6, 2024 1:49:17 GMT
Tauranga - Headquarters excised - obliterator: Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 6, 2024 1:51:41 GMT
A PB 4 & 5 of Mongonui and Bluff Harbour : Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 6, 2024 1:55:10 GMT
A cleaned MS with full gum on an SG100: Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 6, 2024 1:56:55 GMT
An SG141 NZ wmk with damaged '070' Wellington obliterator: Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 6, 2024 1:59:15 GMT
SG142 Invicta and Lozenges wmk - with part Invicta letter I & V in double lined capitals: Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 6, 2024 2:11:11 GMT
A small lot of 8 SG9 with perhaps the 2nd one being SG10: Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 7, 2024 4:21:27 GMT
**Fair Warning**Auction 388 - Stamps and Covers - Thursday 18th April, 2023 (Sydney)Status International - Auction 388Another upcoming Stamp Auction which contains a few interesting New Zealand Chalon items. Found this one in there: Lot 3030 SG4 Strip of 3 1d red on blue no wmk. but papermakers watermark over all 3 stamps - Sands & Kenny, Melbourne Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 7, 2024 4:37:24 GMT
Amongst the hundred or so Chalons I received in from the last Mowbrays sale were 3 tatty covers and 2 - 3 on pieces. The best of the 3 covers has a damaged SG134 but a lovely clear example of the 'damaged' Wellington duplex '070'. The LHS side of the datestamp and the RHS side of the obliterator is squeezed in - as though it has been in a vice, under a little too much pressure! Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 8, 2024 0:16:19 GMT
This is the 2nd of the 3 covers in the Mowbray lot from sale 44. A rather non-descript, tatty, local cover from Bull's to Otaki. However, not is all as it seems. On the back of the cover is an 'A' class cancel for Bull's. I went to my Wooders catalog of Closed NZ Post Offices to check out how early this cancel is for the Bull's Post Office. Very early as it seems! Wooders has Bull's as opening on 06/09/73 (6th September 1873 - British date format). The Post mark says differently! AU 18 73 (August 18 1873) So, from a seemingly common cover, we have a small mystery. Interesting one isn't it! Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 8, 2024 0:24:36 GMT
NB: Bull's was named 'Rangitikei' from 01/07/57 until 06/09/73 according to Wooders as well.
Perhaps with the impending name change the postmaster 'jumped the gun' and used the 'new' canceller a bit earlier than the 'official' date of the name change!
Dave
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Apr 8, 2024 4:50:21 GMT
Don't forget about the almost complete full sheet at Te PapaYes, true. To be fair, I don't tend to count those items in museums - just the ones held by collectors. Te Papa and the Royal collection of His Majesty hold umpteen full sheets of FFQ. It's great that they conserve historical artefacts - but I only refer to items that can be held by collectors.
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Apr 8, 2024 4:56:36 GMT
Amongst the hundred or so Chalons I received in from the last Mowbrays sale were 3 tatty covers and 2 - 3 on pieces. The best of the 3 covers has a damaged SG134 but a lovely clear example of the 'damaged' Wellington duplex '070'. The LHS side of the datestamp and the RHS side of the obliterator is squeezed in - as though it has been in a vice, under a little too much pressure! Dave I found this one the other day. Cheers, Neil
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Apr 8, 2024 5:00:20 GMT
This is the 2nd of the 3 covers in the Mowbray lot from sale 44. A rather non-descript, tatty, local cover from Bull's to Otaki. However, not is all as it seems. On the back of the cover is an 'A' class cancel for Bull's. I went to my Wooders catalog of Closed NZ Post Offices to check out how early this cancel is for the Bull's Post Office. Very early as it seems! Wooders has Bull's as opening on 06/09/73 (6th September 1873 - British date format). The Post mark says differently! AU 18 73 (August 18 1873) So, from a seemingly common cover, we have a small mystery. Interesting one isn't it! Dave That is an excellent piece of research. So the rather tatty cover informs us that in fact Bulls opened earlier than first thought. It takes a cover like this (and a sharp eye like yours) to change our current version of history! Awesome job. Who are you going to tell? Neil
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Apr 8, 2024 5:12:09 GMT
I have a 3d imperf that I think may be an example of A3d (T) given the fairly large margins on the vertical sides and the Christchurch cancel. I'd be interested in other's views. I note that there are perhaps signs of trimmed perfs on the close top margin; I don't know if that affects the identification? Second question: assuming that it is an A3d (T) - CV $1500 - is it worth getting a RPSNZ certificate? I know this is a personal preference that collectors differ on, but I'd be interested to hear other's opinions. Some further info - I paid 22 Euro for it, and there are no thins or other signs of damage that I can see.
Yes, looks good to me. Here's another to compare with cert. Note the comment "as far as can be determined."
|
|
|
Post by redkiwi on Apr 8, 2024 5:12:22 GMT
This is the 2nd of the 3 covers in the Mowbray lot from sale 44. A rather non-descript, tatty, local cover from Bull's to Otaki. However, not is all as it seems. On the back of the cover is an 'A' class cancel for Bull's. I went to my Wooders catalog of Closed NZ Post Offices to check out how early this cancel is for the Bull's Post Office. Very early as it seems! Wooders has Bull's as opening on 06/09/73 (6th September 1873 - British date format). The Post mark says differently! AU 18 73 (August 18 1873) So, from a seemingly common cover, we have a small mystery. Interesting one isn't it! Dave A nice find that, Dave. Startup lists the same dates as Wooders, so an interesting cover.
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Apr 8, 2024 5:14:08 GMT
I have been in Auckland this past week, so just got home to find my winnings from Mowbrays Sale #44 waiting here :-) Over the next couple of days I will scan in some of the better ones. There were over a hundred Chalons in the lot so a few nice items amongst them! First, a quite nice & respectable SG119 4d Rose mint (they described it as 'regummed')! How do you feel about a mint stamp being 'regummed'? Does it put you off it? Unused are perfectly acceptable so it could be soaked I guess, not that I am going to do that! SG119 Mint: Dave No problems with the regumming - some can supposedly crack and take the paper with them so they preach caution and often recommend soaking - but you know that. Looks great.
|
|
xacs
Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by xacs on Apr 8, 2024 6:10:39 GMT
This is the 2nd of the 3 covers in the Mowbray lot from sale 44. A rather non-descript, tatty, local cover from Bull's to Otaki. However, not is all as it seems. On the back of the cover is an 'A' class cancel for Bull's. I went to my Wooders catalog of Closed NZ Post Offices to check out how early this cancel is for the Bull's Post Office. Very early as it seems! Wooders has Bull's as opening on 06/09/73 (6th September 1873 - British date format). The Post mark says differently! AU 18 73 (August 18 1873) So, from a seemingly common cover, we have a small mystery. Interesting one isn't it! Dave A nice find that, Dave. Startup lists the same dates as Wooders, so an interesting cover. However Craddock's "A Class and Allied Datestamps" publication records this as having been open from 1872. With a Remark as to there being a M.O.O. (Money Order Office) from 1.7.72. Also records that the earliest reported date seen of this Type A precursor to 'A' Class Cancel is Ju 22 73, so only a month away from that.
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 8, 2024 6:53:29 GMT
Thanks Clayton. I always forget about Craddock!! lol
Question remains though - why do Wooders & Startup differ from Craddock as to dates of the office being open?
Are they not using the same records? Or are they not comparing apples with apples?
Wooders has Rangitikei as open from 01/07/57 until 06/09/73. Rangitikei didn't use an 'A' class nor a Type A precurser. (presumably it used the PB '13' or, possibly, the local Wellington Postal District W 13?). And Rangitikei was renamed Bull's from 06/09/73.
Interesting history with this office, and I just wonder about the use of this Type A precursor cancel.
Anyway, Craddock certainly says 1872 and earliest recorded as JU 22 73 - so cannot argue with that :-)
Only 8 weeks off earliest then.
Dave
|
|
gc
Member
Posts: 289
|
Post by gc on Apr 8, 2024 6:55:32 GMT
Thanks Clayton. I always forget about Craddock!! lol Question remains though - why do Wooders & Startup differ from Craddock as to dates of the office being open? Are they not using the same records? Or are they not comparing apples with apples? Wooders has Rangitikei as open from 01/07/57 until 06/09/73. Rangitikei didn't use an 'A' class nor a Type A precurser. (presumably it used the PB '13'). And Rangitikei was renamed Bull's from 06/09/73. Interesting history with this office, and I just wonder about the use of this Type A precursor cancel. Anyway, Craddock certainly says 1872 and earliest recorded as JU 22 73 - so cannot argue with that :-) Only 8 weeks off earliest then. Dave Nevertheless, great proving cover Dave. Well Done !!!
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 8, 2024 7:17:42 GMT
I have just taken a look at the 'New Zealand Stamp Collector- Celebrating 100 Years 1919 - 2019' where on page 69 it says :
"According to McNaught the Rangitikei office closed from about April 1867. This is not consistent with the historical changes in the name of the Rangitikei Post Office provided by Startup. The office was known as 'Rangitikei' from 1857 to 1861. It then became known as 'Middle Rangitikei' from 1861 to 1867, after which it changed back to the name 'Rangitikei' from 1867 to 1872 (the period in which the cover shown in fig.36 was posted). Later it was known as 'Rangitikei Ferry' and 'Scott's Ferry'.
So a rather convoluted history with its name really!!
Dave
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Apr 8, 2024 8:45:48 GMT
**Fair Warning**Auction 388 - Stamps and Covers - Thursday 18th April, 2023 (Sydney)Status International - Auction 388Another upcoming Stamp Auction which contains a few interesting New Zealand Chalon items. Found this one in there: Lot 3030 SG4 Strip of 3 1d red on blue no wmk. but papermakers watermark over all 3 stamps - Sands & Kenny, Melbourne Dave Yes, this has been available for last three of their auctions (as has the serrate 16-18) and the price has slowly decreased. Nice piece but the repairs obviously put folk off. Still it’s a cracker.
|
|
xacs
Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by xacs on Apr 8, 2024 10:03:40 GMT
Thanks Clayton. I always forget about Craddock!! lol Question remains though - why do Wooders & Startup differ from Craddock as to dates of the office being open? Are they not using the same records? Or are they not comparing apples with apples? Wooders has Rangitikei as open from 01/07/57 until 06/09/73. Rangitikei didn't use an 'A' class nor a Type A precurser. (presumably it used the PB '13' or, possibly, the local Wellington Postal District W 13?). And Rangitikei was renamed Bull's from 06/09/73. Interesting history with this office, and I just wonder about the use of this Type A precursor cancel. Anyway, Craddock certainly says 1872 and earliest recorded as JU 22 73 - so cannot argue with that :-) Only 8 weeks off earliest then. Dave Craddock at least states at beginning of his book "A datestamp impression in the Post Office Establishment or Impression Books is generally sufficient evidence as to when a datestamp was issued. But where there is no proof impression, the date when Money Order facilities were added gives a reasonable indication as to when the datestamp could have been issued."Given he then notes the M.O.O. date I would assume in this case he has made use of this reference. Wooders at least comments on the limitations of data used and produced when referring to opening and closing dates in his publication. As we have seen before the actual name of an office can change a lot but this is not readily apparent when the office uses an Obliterator. However when the Post Office required town names to appear on cancels it was necessary to formalise naming and to avoid confusion with other towns or districts this often required name changes. An interesting article in NEW ZEALAND MAIL, ISSUE 17, 20 MAY 1871, PAGE 2 relates to this as the Post Office had then Gazetted a change which was under discussion.
Then finally after spending some time as Middle Rangitikei and Rangitikei, this short notice appeared in LYTTELTON TIMES, VOLUME XXXVII, ISSUE 3442, 26 JANUARY 1872, PAGE 2
A month later some feelings as to the change MARLBOROUGH PRESS, VOLUME XIII, ISSUE 789, 28 FEBRUARY 1872, PAGE 2
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 8, 2024 20:06:10 GMT
Beautiful work there Clayton.
So we know that the name of the town was certainly being discussed/debated during 1871 if not beforehand. And by early 1872 the name of Rangitikei had been changed to Bull's.
A Money Order Office was opened during 1872 and a Type A precursor to the 'A' Class was subsequently supplied and used at the Post Office there. Earliest recorded use being JU 22 73 (according to Craddock).
Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 9, 2024 23:55:13 GMT
While looking at my 'Richardson' prints on white paper today, I wondered about the shade groups found within them. I collect my Commonwealth collections by SG in the main, but for my NZ Chalons I also use the CP Catalog. I was wondering about SG11, Dull deep blue, on thick, soft white paper - CP A2c(4) - that CP lists as Deep blue. Do any of you have a certified copy of this stamp? And if so, could you please post a scanned image of it in at least 600dpi? ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ In thinking about this group of 'Richardsons' (the white paper issues of 1857-1861) I also had 2 other questions arise. 1) The Perkins Bacon (PB) supplied brass and wooden obliterators that were supplied in 1854 came in 18 numbers in pairs - ie 2 of numbers 1 - 18. Numbers 10, of Wellington & 12, of Wanganui (Whanganui) suffered damage to them fairly early on in their lives. I have both 'PB' numbered oblits on 'London' prints and 'Richardson' Blue & White papers but nothing on any 'Davies' prints - 1862 on. Does anyone have a complete 'PB 10' or 'PB12' on a Davies print at all? 2) Which 'PB' oblit could this be? - an example of a broken 'PB12' ? I haven't heard of a broken 15, 16 or 18 before! It looks a little like a backwards '6' in '16' but these numbers were 'fixed' so not adjustable! Or perhaps it was just not 'flush' when struck? On a 2nd point about this stamp, what do you make of the separation along the bottom edge? Dave
|
|
xacs
Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by xacs on Apr 10, 2024 0:57:38 GMT
While looking at my 'Richardson' prints on white paper today, I wondered about the shade groups found within them. I collect my Commonwealth collections by SG in the main, but for my NZ Chalons I also use the CP Catalog. I was wondering about SG11, Dull deep blue, on thick, soft white paper - CP A2c(4) - that CP lists as Deep blue. Do any of you have a certified copy of this stamp? And if so, could you please post a scanned image of it in at least 600dpi? ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ In thinking about this group of 'Richardsons' (the white paper issues of 1857-1861) I also had 2 other questions arise. 1) The Perkins Bacon (PB) supplied brass and wooden obliterators that were supplied in 1854 came in 18 numbers in pairs - ie 2 of numbers 1 - 18. Numbers 10, of Wellington & 12, of Wanganui (Whanganui) suffered damage to them fairly early on in their lives. I have both 'PB' numbered oblits on 'London' prints and 'Richardson' Blue & White papers but nothing on any 'Davies' prints - 1862 on. Does anyone have a complete 'PB 10' or 'PB12' on a Davies print at all? 2) Which 'PB' oblit could this be? - an example of a broken 'PB12' ? I haven't heard of a broken 15, 16 or 18 before! It looks a little like a backwards '6' in '16' but these numbers were 'fixed' so not adjustable! Or perhaps it was just not 'flush' when struck? On a 2nd point about this stamp, what do you make of the separation along the bottom edge? Dave Prompted me to have a quick look through my meagre selection. Afraid the only 10 I have is a 6d on Richardson White.
A somewhat indistinct cancel on 2d blue looks a little like yours but no idea of what second numeral is. Also on Richardson white paper.
However as for the 12, I did see this in my images, stamp not to hand. A 2d ultramarine on pelure paper.
The lower edge of your 2d could potentially be a serrated 16
Here is one from same album, may have some manipulation of sides but can compare.
Clayton
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Apr 10, 2024 1:11:58 GMT
Thanks Clayton. Some great images you supplied there.
The PB '12' on the 2d 'Pelure' means that one of the '12's was certainly still in use in 1862-63.
I shall find some images of Serrate 16 and compare them with the 2d above too.
Cheers :-)
Dave
|
|