vikingeck
Member 
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 12, 2021 14:26:58 GMT
WERT , Why do I think it is a forgery ? 1 The forged stamps outnumber the genuine by 1000:1 , maybe even 10,000:1 2 I have seen quite a large number of examples before, but never found a genuine 3 Therefore I am of a suspicious nature . It just feels wrong so 4 I check against a reputable picture of the real stamp such as the link from Londonbus1 earlier in this discussion You are a flyspecker so you look for what is not there that should be, and for what is there that should not be The differences are several, and small but here are three. a.) This forgery has an extra passenger in the triangle behind the funnel b) the number 20 in the upper circle should touch the frame line , they do not c. the space between POSTES and SUEZ has only vertical lines of shade IIIIIIII, the genuine is cross hatched XXXXXXXXX
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 12, 2021 14:33:38 GMT
Well I’ve got it off. The gum is present except where I’ve removed the hinge. It has got some cracking to it. It’s translucent but off white. I’m pressing it at the moment then will check for a water mark
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 12, 2021 14:35:46 GMT
Hi vikingeck Can you help me to understand why you think it is a forgery..Thanks. Robert
Could check the back of the stamp..If it is aniline ink, i do do not believe the forger would use aniline ink, but just regular ink..Just a thought.
The ink has not bled into the paper of the stamp if that’s what is meant by aniline ink as per your images Robert |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 12, 2021 14:40:52 GMT
Thanks for your conclusions vikingeck I’ve had it under the microscope for a closer look and there is indeed an extra passenger at the rear. I also found this very good site which provides even more info and some different images. stampforgeries.blogspot.com/2021/06/suez-canal-stamps.html All I would say is it’s a pretty good forgery if that’s the final decision on it |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 12, 2021 14:41:52 GMT
It looks like a forgery to me. Check the state of the gum (if any) and if there is a watermark, although the latter is not evident on every stamp. (LA+F....La Crois Freres).Hi Michael I have just made a connection with the paper maker with my tobacco collection and ephemera LA + F The rice paper used to roll cigarettes is one of their products " RIZ LA +" We used to pronounce it "Risla plus " but give it Fench accent and it is " RIZ - La Croix" |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 12, 2021 14:43:06 GMT
I also noticed under the microscope a clear flaw from the M and T of maritime at an angle through to the top of the margin
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 13, 2021 9:33:04 GMT
The Suez Canal stamp has been pressed overnight. Here’s a couple pictures. 1st is with it in my watermark detector. The stamp is thinned slightly where the hinge came off.   |
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Post by michael on Aug 13, 2021 18:07:39 GMT
Having studied the Pacific Steam Navigation Company stamps (Peru 1857) and their forgeries in details, I find that a high resolution scan at 1200 dpi is all that is needed to see the difference between a forgery and the original stamp. This forum allows stamps up to a width of 1024 dots so when discussing forgeries this would be the best resolution to upload an image. It would then become much clearer that this is a forgery. PS If you have a PSNC stamp in the album please post an image  |
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,162 
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Aug 13, 2021 18:37:19 GMT
Having studied the Pacific Steam Navigation Company stamps (Peru 1857) and their forgeries in details, I find that a high resolution scan at 1200 dpi is all that is needed to see the difference between a forgery and the original stamp. This forum allows stamps up to a width of 1024 dots so when discussing forgeries this would be the best resolution to upload an image. It would then become much clearer that this is a forgery. PS If you have a PSNC stamp in the album please post an image PSNC=  ? we have less acronyms in "french"  René |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 13, 2021 18:51:33 GMT
Having studied the Pacific Steam Navigation Company stamps (Peru 1857) and their forgeries in details, I find that a high resolution scan at 1200 dpi is all that is needed to see the difference between a forgery and the original stamp. This forum allows stamps up to a width of 1024 dots so when discussing forgeries this would be the best resolution to upload an image. It would then become much clearer that this is a forgery. PS If you have a PSNC stamp in the album please post an image Thanks for your input michael I’m fairly new to the forum and have been uploading the best images I can using my phone. My scanner is playing up at present and the max resolution I can scan to is 600dpi. I must get it sorted. I will have a look for the Pacific Steam Navigation stamps but it doesn’t ring a bell |
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Post by dgdecker on Aug 13, 2021 19:16:25 GMT
I’ve been trawling through a Pitman shorthand dictionary but there are so many words that I’m struggling to decode it. I wonder if anyone does know shorthand or could show it to someone that does. Totally un related to stamping…. when I first saw this post I was not sure if Pitman was a publisher or a type of shorthand. Last night while watching a series on Britbox I discovered it was definitely developed by a Mr Pitman and he lived in Bath. I hope that information was correct. I found it interesting how something I read in a stamp Forum can show up elsewhere. David |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 14, 2021 15:43:10 GMT
I've hooked up another scanner and managed to scan at 1200 dpi so heres the images as requested by @micheal   |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 14, 2021 16:40:49 GMT
Here’s another item from this lot. A set of postage dues used as a receipt. I can’t remember how the old postage due stamps worked but didn’t think they were used like this.  |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 14, 2021 16:53:14 GMT
This is the postmark viewed from the rear of the paper. I’ve flipped it and enhanced it  |
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Post by michael on Aug 14, 2021 17:43:37 GMT
Your stamp compared to a what I assume (from the internet) is an original image. You can clearly see, as per vikingeck, that it is a forgery.
Michael
PS: love your youtube channel, built my first transitor circuirt 58 years ago!
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 14, 2021 17:48:53 GMT
Technically that is exactly what postage due stamps were. They were a receipt for the money you owe to cover (double) the shortfall. Of course they were usually stuck on to the letter or package . This receipt is unusual I have not seen one before.
1/1 was quite a substantial sum in 1934 … probably more than an hour’s wages .
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 15, 2021 8:25:18 GMT
Thanks for the confirmation michael and I’m glad you enjoy my YouTube channel. I think you may have been playing with transistor radios before I was born |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 15, 2021 8:28:12 GMT
Technically that is exactly what postage due stamps were. They were a receipt for the money you owe to cover (double) the shortfall. Of course they were usually stuck on to the letter or package . This receipt is unusual I have not seen one before. 1/1 was quite a substantial sum in 1934 … probably more than an hour’s wages . Thanks vikingeck I seem to remember envelopes arriving with the newer style postage due labels when I was a youngster. I can’t remember whether you had to pay the postman though. Maybe in this case he paid the postman but wanted a receipt so had to go to the post office to get one. |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 15, 2021 23:06:06 GMT
As requested by rex here’s the Italian pages from the 2 albums. The last page is the 2nd album which is later. I haven’t checked any against a catalogue yet so would be interested to know if there’s any value in them as I can trade them to fill some of the (expensive) gaps in my early GB collection.    |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on Aug 16, 2021 13:24:36 GMT
 April 1863 effigy of Vittorio Emanuele II drawing and lithographic print by Francesco Matraire. Yours is Type II (C open line interrupted under <Q>). It is the first postage stamp after the unification of Italy bearing the words "Franco Bollo Postale Italiano". The specialized Sassone 2019 values it 12 euros not traveled. If it were a fake it would be worth a lot more.  |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on Aug 16, 2021 13:50:37 GMT
 This 80c. should be checked more carefully with a good catalog, it could give some satisfaction. Unfortunately I don't know if it is an issue of the Kingdom of Sardinia 1861-63, or an issue for the Neapolitan Provinces or an issue of the Kingdom of Italy 1862. |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 16, 2021 13:54:39 GMT
April 1863 effigy of Vittorio Emanuele II drawing and lithographic print by Francesco Matraire. Yours is Type II (C open line interrupted under <Q>). It is the first postage stamp after the unification of Italy bearing the words "Franco Bollo Postale Italiano". The specialized Sassone 2019 values it 12 euros not traveled. If it were a fake it would be worth a lot more. Thanks for the info rex I’ve looked it up on stampworld. It’s bizarre that it would be worth more as a forgery. |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on Aug 16, 2021 14:00:44 GMT
 25c. King Umberto I 1879. The Sassone 2019 values it at 12.00euro, too bad the upper right corner. I keep these stamps in my collection, even when they are damaged. |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 16, 2021 14:07:56 GMT
This 80c. should be checked more carefully with a good catalog, it could give some satisfaction. Unfortunately I don't know if it is an issue of the Kingdom of Sardinia 1861-63, or an issue for the Neapolitan Provinces or an issue of the Kingdom of Italy 1862. I think this is it. Also check out the 10c yellowish brown. Looks like I have that one unused but tatty  |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on Aug 16, 2021 14:14:57 GMT
April 1863 effigy of Vittorio Emanuele II drawing and lithographic print by Francesco Matraire. Yours is Type II (C open line interrupted under <Q>). It is the first postage stamp after the unification of Italy bearing the words "Franco Bollo Postale Italiano". The specialized Sassone 2019 values it 12 euros not traveled. If it were a fake it would be worth a lot more. Thanks for the info rex I’ve looked it up on stampworld. It’s bizarre that it would be worth more as a forgery.  I am attaching a copy of the page of the specialized Sassone, with a translator I am sure you will have no problems. |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 16, 2021 14:15:27 GMT
Maybe I need to scan some of these for further investigation
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on Aug 16, 2021 14:28:26 GMT
 1861 stamps for printed matter. Embossed embossed figure. |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on Aug 16, 2021 14:43:51 GMT
Maybe I need to scan some of these for further investigation Yes, this type of stamp must be checked carefully. Unfortunately on the screen it is difficult for me to help. |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on Aug 16, 2021 14:51:02 GMT
 Tax stamp, King Umberto I 1885-95. |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Aug 16, 2021 19:57:57 GMT
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? we have less acronyms in "french" 
