Turkey : Stamps

A little bird told me someone needed some help with Semi-Postal IDs:


A couple notes first: ID is before the stamp - Scott # on top & Isfila # on bottom. 

4 stamps are missing: B24; B25; B27; & B30. 

B24 - I do not have this stamp. Lots of debate over it. Isfila doesn't list it. I've never seen one, and do not believe it exists. 

B27 - ?? Don't know why this one is missing - will check for it? Maybe I don't have it?

B25 & B30 - I will post these 2 stamps separately.

Very nice posts, Michael, thanks for doing that!  Hopefully, your well-labelled pages will help Frog (firstfrog2013) to process his material a bit more easily.

One of these days I will need to contend with my unsorted accumulation of Turkey, and now I will know right where to go for info when that time comes! 

Stuck on this one.

'War' overprints - both 6-pointed stars from 1915 & 5-pointed stars from 1916 - have the date inside the crescent.

The semi-postals - War Orphans tax stamps - have the date above the crescent.

Scott 316B - 1915 6-pointed star, with discount overprint. 

You know you can post more than one stamp at a time, right? No extra charges apply!

The trick for me in finding the stamps with the ubiquitous "H. 1331 crescent and star" overprints is to locate the base stamp first. (H. stands for Hegira, the years in the Islamic calendar, the equivalent to the Christian A.D.).

So let's start with the one on the left.

The top overprint we find among the listings for newspaper stamps:



So the base is YT #J19 from 1901. Then we look at the "H. 1331 overprint listings":



Looking for the "timbres journaux de 1901 20 pa. rose", we find it as YT#229.

The base of the middle stamp we find as the overprinted issue from 1892-99 (YT#89):



Then, going back to the "H. 1331" overprint listings, we find "Timbres-poste de 1892-99, 5 pa. sur 10, vert" as YT#209.

As for the stamp on the right, the overprint readily identifies it as YT#571 from 1917.

Frog - 

1st is a newspaper stamp - back of the book in catalog. Scott #P140

2nd - Scott #291

3rd - Semi-Postal - Scott # B47

To continue hrdoktorx's explanation:

Stamp #1 - base stamp is Scott 104 - foreign postage from 1901 series. Then, newspaper overprint applied - making it Scott P39. Finally, 5-pointed star overprint applied in 1916, making it Scott P140. 

(hrdoktorx - don't know Y&T very well - but your YT229 is a 6-pointed star - this stamp has a 5-pointed star)

Stamp 2:

Started life as Scott #95. Surcharge applied in 1897, making it Scott 100. 6-pointed star applied in 1915, making it Scott 291. 

Stamp 3:

It was a semi-postal to start with - Scott B46, from 1917. Then an additional surcharge - same year - making it B47. Make a note - B46 also had an additional surcharge applied in 1921 - see Scott #600. 

So we've got a nice group of 3 here that explains alot about why this seems confusing: you've got stamps overprinted to make newspaper stamps. Stamps surcharged to create a new value. Newspaper stamps overprinted to make new newspaper stamps. Semi-postals surcharged to create new semi-postals. And for #600, semi-postals surcharged to create regular-use postage stamps. (This last one was during the transitional government period when the Ottoman Empire was in its last days...)

Sorry about the 5-point and 6-point star mistake. My bad. In that case, I concur.

In modern editions of the YT catalogs, listings for overprinted stamps always include, in parentheses as part of the description, the number for the base stamp. For issues like these, that feature is an enormous time-saver!

I just wanted to say thanks to Frog (firstfrog2013 ), Michael (mdroth ), and Xavier (hrdoktorx ) for this interesting discussion and learning process.  It is preparing me for my own eventual task of organizing my accumulation of classic stamps from Turkey.

Just for my own education, I tried to find Frog's three stamps in his last question post on my own in Scott, thinking myself reasonably well-versed on using the Scott Catalogues, and I was only able to correctly identify one out of three within a reasonable amount of time.  I was also tripped up by the five-pointed star versus the six-pointed one on the overprint, so that is a lesson for me to document here to refer back to when I will need it.

Anyway, thanks to all of you for taking the time to walk through the process, from which we can all benefit.

It's nice to see some folks interested in Turkey. And education is without question the goal!

Scott is fine, but just not laid out very well for Turkey. You've got regular postage & then all of the back-of-the-book stuff. Once you know what to look for, it is actually very easy & Scott is an extremely useful tool. It is more than sufficient, in reality. Once you decide you want more, then Isfila is the way to go. I've used Isfila almost exclusively for many years, but in reality, I can pretty much ID from sight at this point. As crazy as that sounds, once you 'get' the basics of the country - primarily from 1862-1923 - it is really not that complicated. 

SO:

Copying some notes & then some quick essentials:

**

I actually keep series in my head - along with the SCOTT DESIGN #!! (For 1901-1913) Easiest thing for Turkey. Then, you can learn all the various overprints for each series - semi-postals; postage dues; & newspapers.

In order:

(each is 'series' name)

19th Century:

Tughra (Scott 1-7) (Designs A1-A4)

Duloz (Scott 8-52; 64-65) (Design A5)

Empire (Scott 53-63; 66-91) (Design A7)

Coat of Arms (Scott 95-100) (Designs A10-A14)



20th Century:


Foreign Postage (Scott 102-109) (Design A16)
Domestic Postage (Scott 110-117) (Design A17)
'Sun Rays' (Scott 118-127) (Design A18)
**1908 Series (Scott 132-141) Design A19)**
New Constitution (Scott 146-150) (Design A20)
** 1909 Series (Scott 151-160) (Design A21)**
New Post Office (Scott 237-246) (Design A22)

(Being able to easily distinguish A19 from A21 is critical!!)

If you can get these 11 series, you're in great shape.

The trick: these scott numbers above - are just for the main/basic stamp.

Then: there are 'variations' - discount overprints (i.e. Scott 128-131); 6-pointed star overprints (1915) & 5-pointed star overprints (1916) (both with additional discount overprints); postage dues; semi-postals; & newspaper stamps. All from those same basic 11 series.

Read more: thestampforum.boards.net/conversation/4382#ixzz5cmssy65w

**
So to cover two issues - one of which has clearly been an issue in the recent posts:

6-pointed star vs 5-pointed star:

If you see one of these 'star' overprints, the very first thing you must do is check whether 6-pointed star or 5-pointed star!!

This difference exists for both the War Overprints (regular postage) & the War Orphans Tax Semi-Postal stamps. 

6-Pointed Stars:

Regular Postage:





Semi-Postal:





5-Pointed Stars:


Regular Postage:






Semi-Postal:








The 2nd critical issue is to distinguish between Scott design A19 & A21 - as noted above with the *** (!!!)

Again - if you see either of the 1908 or 1909 series designs - first thing to do is determine A19 or A21:

A19 - 1908 Series:






A21 - 1909 Series:






Sorry for the long posts - but that should be alot to eliminate alot of confusion...

I don't think the lot of Turkey stamps I won in the weekend auction goes back that far. The picture showed the Cities definitives of 1958. Not sure how far back the lot goes, there are 250 or so stamps in it.

Here are two 1914 engraved 5 para postage due stamps.  Scott lists them as #J63.  They are different sizes.  One is taller and narrower than the other.  The one shown on the left (or top) is about 22 x 25 mm while the other is 22.5 x 24.5 mm.  Their mint condition is not the greatest and they have the lowest denomination.  In the second scan I tried overlaying them so the difference in size is more apparent.  Anybody have any information?

These are the London prints and engraved stamps, not the local overprints nor lithographs.  Were there two London prints?

If one printing, is this then an unrecognized variety?   There are similar variations in the stamps of other countries that Scott recognizes as a die variety.