renden
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What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Mar 8, 2021 23:23:47 GMT
As renden mentioned I follow Yvert & Tellier numbering over Scott for France-references by Maury Ceres & Dallay and Spink|Maury go into more detail, although Yvert & Tellier does offer some additional info, as does Marianne , Brun, Francon & Storch, especially with respect to some nice line drawings detailing the types I am hoping hrdoktorx may have a better , more complete answer, , ND refer to imperforate stamps (N.D. non-dentelé = "non-toothed is the literal to English translations). There are a number of folks here who have a much broader knowledge of paper types than I do and perhaps they will join the discussion. Maury indicates imperforates exist for all 3 Types, but makes no distinction between Granet and Régents For now we will put the Types aside (before you wonder what you've gotten into and are all these people crazy?!?) Here's a scan of stamps grabbed at random from an almost full Vario page, ( I have just barely finished mounting the Sage Type ! stamps and haven't even begun to layout and print pages for the Type II) and I have not Typed any of these yet-  Welcome to the Sage series! Well you have heard of my friend Stan, in Sacramento, California Nothing is that easy - so have fun and thanks, SRené R |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 8, 2021 23:28:08 GMT
should you pattib have any curiosity (others also), here are the variants that define the TYPES for the 1 centime TYPE II. Maury and others show this, but with very small images. These line drawings are from Marianne 1849 - 1900, Bru, Francom, Storch 1999 (and I think the copy I have was signed by Storch....) 
you are basically looking for "blobs: of ink on the (or lack of) on the letters S and E in POSTE. The T remains constant. There is also a break in the line on the IIC on the top left corner of the frame that surrounds the denominations. And lastly the small break on the lower left outermost frame of the image (IIA) and then I found this "imperforate", but because of the very large margins I suspect it is a newspaper wrapper  |
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anglobob
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What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Mar 9, 2021 10:53:23 GMT
I have to admit that I have not spent much time examining all the different varieties of this series and cannot add any extra information.I have seen a few of the Prussian blue YVERT 84 for sale but most are beyond my price range. I did see the following stamp for sale at a discounted price of USD439.00. I cannot believe that anyone would pay that for a badly damaged stamp.   |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 30, 2021 14:17:01 GMT
a newly acquired Yvert & Tellier #64, appears to be light green on pale green #64Aa, August 5, 1876 red ink cancellation, but I cannot make out the office/location. Also notice the inside frame on the border, top and left side very broken/incomplete  |
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Mar 31, 2021 0:00:57 GMT
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 31, 2021 0:24:27 GMT
@wert thanks , that's more color shifts than I tried, but I have searched the GBPS list of offices and Google and I find nothing remotely close to any combination I try.. it looks like Riprimes... nothing close -and PP23 =Parcel Post??? no luck their with that either...and it may have been to ID the clerk using the stamp
Looks like date may be August 6, 1876
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hrdoktorx
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What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 31, 2021 5:24:08 GMT
No wonder you couldn't find the city for that postmark, because it isn't one! The word is "IMPRIMÉS" (printed matter). This is a postmark that was used when the stamp was apposed on periodicals to be mailed to subscribers, at a lower rate than regular mail. Usage that followed after the dedicated "Journaux" stamps were discontinued. Then the "PP" in "PP23" means "Port Payé".
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 31, 2021 14:22:15 GMT
now I see it! Thanks Xavier!
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 24, 2021 23:28:01 GMT
Received 3 lots for study- some nice obliterations, nuances and one Type III- all else is Type II when studying these it' difficult to have t  oo many    |
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hrdoktorx
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Post by hrdoktorx on May 6, 2021 19:27:12 GMT
An eagerly awaited new arrival, the 10c green Type II Sage (YT #76, MiNr. 60II):  |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on May 26, 2021 21:57:13 GMT
France 1925 International Philatelic Exposition in Paris- These aere issued as a block of 4 in a souvenir sheet (which I will likely never own), but the stamp on the right arrived today (the one on the left has been posted previously. Yvert 216 and 216b -if you look at the inside frame of the denomination "box" the inner left line is broken across from the "mouth" of the 5 
I do not know if this variant (right) occurred on every souvenir sheet, and is therefore from a specific position, (which I expect) as it is a recognized variant). If anyone has the complete sheet, please post!! |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on May 29, 2021 17:37:38 GMT
Some new aqusitions received this morning a nice MNH 5c Type III ( Yvert does not recognize the Type III as it has the N under the B like the first issues, but the "Type III" were printed with a 3rd (new) plate. THe 5 centimes is the only repeated denomination/color of the first issues which can make it difficult to positively identify the darker shades as to being Type I or III unless there is a date prior to 1892, although I asm hoping from this unused stamp (and 10c) to be able to find some differences between the plates. This one being a greenish-yellow on green-yellow defines it as a Type Ior later Type I for those who don't agree in Maury, Spinks or Dallay. The green is Yvert #102  and here is MNH most likely black on lilac Yvert #103 (Type I is green) 
next is a 40c Type IA red-orange- the lines in the backgroung above the clasped is less distinct compared to the same area in the above stamps and has multiple broken lines. The cancellation I believe is Dijon, 15 Oct, 1878 and the bottom I believe is Cote-d'Or which would go together (as best I can tell!?) 
next a worn 50c TYpe III #104 (there was no 50c denomination in the Type I  The last two are both Type 1, the first a Type IB bright carmine on pale rose (#71B). The lines above the hands on the B types had the plates "retouched" and is therefore a later issue  and last a 1Franc which is described as a "yellow-green on straw" color.... which only makes (some sense when placed next to the other darker bronze and olive shades, and I suppose this could be debated... (shades are a challenge) . Yvert 72Bc. There is a "Dark Olive=green on pale brown, but this appears to be more yellow/straw colored in thebackrounds, most notable around the 1F.  |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jun 27, 2021 0:04:20 GMT
stuck in between some folded papers I found this today (?!) Yvert 216 used- and I'm thinking the mis-aligned perf is why this was just used for postage as most of the souvenir sheets I see (and single specimens are fairly well centered. I wish the obliteration was clearer- I'm guessing July (Juillet) 3, but what year and what office is up for grabs. missing a corner, faded coloring, a bit dirty (likely this will get abath) but postally used stamps are not all that common, so it's a keeper! (for now)  |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 3, 2021 15:17:54 GMT
Received yesterday Y&T 105 MNH Yvert & Tellier call this out as a Type I, while Maury, Sinks, Et. Al., call it out as a Type III- either way, I now believe i have enough TYpe II and Type III (or later issue Type I if you wish) to startlaying out these pages. Once completed, i will be able to free up a lot of Vario page space! The Sower (Semeuse lignée and camée) is in a similar place  |
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Post by biglavalamp on Jul 5, 2021 19:09:13 GMT
What sort of sorcery is this, please tell me how do I learn how to do it...the hours I've spent trying to figure out postmarks. |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 5, 2021 21:13:55 GMT
Yes i use a 6000K LED and it seems to be 'best" when viewing against a black background I will usually load up a vario page and scasn at high res and then look at the stamps under the light and compare to how the scan looks. With the Type II 5 c green (depending on what reference you use, up to 14 shades), I have found clear cancellation dates to be of some help as I can rule out some shades.
The Type I 5 c green, cancellation dates really helps filter out the later issues (or Type III by some).
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 15, 2021 21:33:43 GMT
I scanned my France pages with mounted stamps for Jon and noticed that over time my pages have "evolved" and not in a most consistent way... as well as saw some typos/ font errors I had not previously noticed (or wanted to notice), so I decide to go back through the pages and try and maintain one layout format as well as provide better details in some areas. I started with the Peace and Commerce (Type Sage since these are the earliest pages I have made. Below is my main detail page which generally applies to most of the issues in the series and the first page covering the 1 through 5 centimes. Not yet printed on velum as I think I'll look at it for a day before printing out a final copy and transferring from the earlier pages. Thye detail page will remain B/W so as not to infer it applies to a specific color. If yopu spot ANYTHING, please let me know    |
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hrdoktorx
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What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Nov 16, 2021 6:19:00 GMT
Since you asked, there are a few typos:
- allegotrical --> allegorical
- some other minor differtence --> some other minor differences
- 12 denominastions --> 12 denominations
The story I read about why there are the two main types is that the lower left corner broke off on the original master, and so the plate had to be redone.
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 16, 2021 15:07:42 GMT
Xavier
Thank you for the corrections! (and yes I did ask!!)
I had heard something about the spacing being an issue, but upon translating the introduction for the IIIrd Republic in Maury Ceres & Dallay I found (and this is translated from Google..)
The original original punch, intended to make the first die, broke during its quenching. the entire lower left corner has therefore been taken up. From this broken punch, Mouchon had a wedge made which had to be regressed and served as a secondary original.
It goes into more detail, but I do not have time this morning translate it all... I should try the PDF OCR function... though in the past it has yielded some strange results!
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blaamand
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Post by blaamand on Nov 17, 2021 6:36:45 GMT
stuck in between some folded papers I found this today (?!) Yvert 216 used- and I'm thinking the mis-aligned perf is why this was just used for postage as most of the souvenir sheets I see (and single specimens are fairly well centered. I wish the obliteration was clearer- I'm guessing July (Juillet) 3, but what year and what office is up for grabs. missing a corner, faded coloring, a bit dirty (likely this will get abath) but postally used stamps are not all that common, so it's a keeper! (for now) Stan, I just saw this post first today. If you allow a correction, I believe this 5Fr is from the 1877 Sage series and issued as a regular definitive, Maury/Yvert #95:  I say so because of its lilac shade. The singles from souvenir sheets are more carmine. Would you agree? Want to take the opportunity to praise your fabulous Album pages for the Sage issues!!! Great thread as well. |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 17, 2021 15:55:41 GMT
Jon
I believe you are correct. After giving it a bath and get some some of the grime away the lilac color comes through a bit more and it is similar to a several others I have. I'll scan an post in a bit!
And thanks for the kind words about the pages!
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 17, 2021 23:36:11 GMT
Well, here are my six 5 Franc lilac shade Yvert # 95  |
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blaamand
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What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Nov 17, 2021 23:44:59 GMT
Nice shades!! Determining which shade correspond to which description in the catalog is not always straight forward, good luck!
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 27, 2021 21:33:54 GMT
Today while searching for stamps which clearly show the different subtypes (A,B, etc.,) I came across this Yvert #75 5 centimes Type II and possibly subtype B bright green on light green ( # 75Bb ) with a very "Broken back" S in POSTES. At first glance I thought it might just be the cancellation, but under the scope it is clearly missing a portion of the "S"   |
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renden
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What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Nov 27, 2021 22:27:51 GMT
Very nice find, stainlessb - all in all, maybe you should move to FRANCE - Not Now.......there is a virus going on and a new variant  Appreciate your posts René |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 27, 2021 23:07:14 GMT
correction below upon further examining of stamps
René
I was surprised... not at all what I was looking for. I do not have enough examples for sub-type A and plenty of sub-type B ofthe 5 centimes.
I think I need a new light for my scope....
I should have moved when I was younger!
So now I will have to be content to collect the early stamps!
S
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 28, 2021 19:05:30 GMT
after looking at right around 200 stamps so far I have one (1) sub-type A, and quite possibly a second. The sub-type A were issued between 11/21/1877 and withdrawn sometime in 1878. The sun-type B was issued 112/28/1877 until sometime in 1899, so there is an overlap between when the ty[e B was first issued and the type A withdrawn. Most of the catalogues that I have do not give a great amount of detail- the images shown as examples are small (and it appears the same image was used in several catalogues) and resolution poor, so when magnified it becomes a pixelated mess! Brun, Francon & Storch in Marianne provide black and white drawings,(below) although even they are somewhat vague and I am wondering if the lower right corner trait differences between the A & B is not consistent.... or possibly disputed as it only seems to be referenced in Marianne.  The main 'clue" to the differences is in the S, T and E in POSTES, which seems to be the amount of shadow around the letters, most significant is the inside of the upper portion of the "S". The Type B lined background is much cleaner and the shadows are much less- The bottom right 'notch" in the outside of th eright frame is something I have not found (yet) and if anyone has an example I would like very much to see a scan! Below is a Type B- nice clean lines and seems fairly close to the description/drawing in Marianne  Next is a Type A- the date Oct 11(?) 77 is before the releaase of the Type B. the shading , while not exactly like the drawing in Marianne is very similar, but the notched frame (lower right) is non-exixtent.  Next is my "maybe Type A - mainly looking at inside of upper portion of the S- the T and E have some 'blobs" but the date Jan 12, 78 would be just 2 weeks after the first issue of the Type B, so I would expect the Type A versions to still be in circulation...  I still have about 300+ stamps to go through so I am hopeful that i find a few more Type A. If the 2nd stamp is indeed a Type A I have two of the three shades. Fortunately the remaining 11 shades for the 5 centime II are all subtype B, so I'll have plenty to look at and try and interoperate the color descriptions! Thoughts comments? |
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renden
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What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Nov 28, 2021 19:34:34 GMT
Stan stainlessb, waiting for your pics to appear - interesting - did not know about the notch - do not have any sub-type As (IIA) René |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 28, 2021 21:29:41 GMT
Here's one with a notch, but the shadowing is not overly compelling... small tear top right 2nd perf down  still looking |
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renden
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What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Nov 28, 2021 22:03:10 GMT
Here's one with a notch, but the shadowing is not overly compelling... small tear top right 2nd perf down still looking Still cannot see the scans - problem X - our ADMIN should/can help us  René |
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oo many
