stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 2, 2019 21:58:51 GMT
thought I might start a new thread dealing only with these particular stamps Below is my accumulation thus far of Type 1- as you will quickly notice the 1, 2, 4, and 10 c green (vert) is lacking.... only the 5c has what i am assiming is the correct shade... and all other "green" denominations depict the dark green (vert fonce).... mainly because this seems the most common color "green" in the Type I. i have purchase several stamps online which appear in the scan to be the 'green' shade, but upon receipt they look more like the darker green (just maybe a bit faded...0... the sellers never call out which shade (which I have now learned tobe wary of... I have no need to buy duplicates....) on the otherhand, I am starting to wonder if I'm mis-perceiving what the two shades should be So, if anyone has both shades, of the 1,2, 4, 5, and even the 10 denomination, please post Likewise, I am suspect of the 40 c vermillion (although there is a more marked difference out of the mounts and sleeve, side-by-side)   |
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 2, 2019 22:31:34 GMT
My opinion, Stan stainlessb: 61a,62a,63a are dark green 64 should be a type IIB yellow green, but cannot check on scan and yellow grn is not mentioned in Type I 64a is dark green as well as 65a (both drk green) 70 and 70a are both red-orange and the rest id history if Type I Nice stamps - will hear opinions from other folks !! René p.s. I wished you had put Maury #s LOL |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 2, 2019 22:49:01 GMT
Yes, the 5c green is indeed Type 1 ... and in looking at my dupe I find it has better perfs... so it is not in the lead position and unless I'm mistaken, Yvert and Maury use the same numbering (at least for these)   |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 2, 2019 23:57:24 GMT
Heres the 5c dark vgreen for a better imagae comparison  upload images |
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 3, 2019 1:54:55 GMT
Will be back tomorrow as late here - René
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 3, 2019 2:37:19 GMT
hmmmm
I'm now wondering if my "green" 5c are in reality Yvert 102?
if so, then what exactly is green and dark green in the Type 1? (at least my printed is not yet determined to be in error....)
Anyone with an early Type I green and dark green in the same denomination?
The change cometh... i really need to stop thinking about this and go to bed....l.,
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 3, 2019 15:02:19 GMT
I'm now wondering if my "green" 5c is in reality Yvert 102? That would make it a Type III (N under B ) 102 yellow-green (vert-jaune), Stan and Yvert France cat says there is a subtle difference between the 64 and the 102, the latter having a larger "5". René |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 3, 2019 15:21:55 GMT
renden in Spinks |Maury "... on utilisa un troiiseme poincon, il est pen different du Type I" my translation is a different "punch' which I take to mean a different 'plate' used in printing (?) now to determine what is different (or is is just color/denomination)? I will need to scan some of the Type II and compare to Type I and see if I cansee what's different
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 3, 2019 16:05:46 GMT
in Spinks |Maury "... on utilisa un troiiseme poincon, il est pen different du Type I" my translation is a different "punch' which I take to mean a different 'plate' used in printing (?) Stan, poincon is a perforator.....now Maury and Yvert do not refer to the same difference and no Perf is given My M102 TIII..(I have 3 copies - this is the better one).......and I do not have a M64 to compare - but who can say that my M102 TIII is not a M64 TI !!!......but green and yellow green are different colors  |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 3, 2019 16:53:35 GMT
perforations all seem the same ( 14 x 13.5) somewhat redundant, but i think it makes it easier to re-attache a couple of previous images Sage Type 1 5 c ( and what we thus far believe to be vert fonce (Y/M 64b) Now two examples of what is likely Type III 5c which may be Y/M 102 (vert jaune) or 102 a (vert jaune vif) .... bright and brighter.... but not Y/M 64 vert Next- Type I 10 c vert fonce (as above Y/M 65a  The Type III 10 c comes in various shades of black... so for now below are two examples of Y/M 10c   and for comparison (and not to make Type II feel left out  ) Y/M 89   one thing I noticed is that a somewhat common print variation (error)=...extra blob of ink) is a small 'dot' under the C in FRANCAISE . It does not appear on lal stamps i have yet to delve into the various "States" which does not seem to be in universal agreement as to how many different states (II A, IIB etc) are actually recognized again, if anyone has a Type I denomination with both shades of green, please post- the catalogues all show just one color. It would be nice to have the twonext to each other to know if this is something very subtle or more dramatic |
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 3, 2019 17:10:30 GMT
Stan stainlessb - I have not had time to review all your scans at this point. Just want to clarify the C. When a C in "french" precedes a vowel (like an a) it is written Ç and that is what we see in RÉPUBLIQUE FRANÇAISE. René |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 3, 2019 17:26:35 GMT
renden thank you for that information- that would explain why it seemed more "common" to me  several of the stamps above did not get enough ink! When it precedes does that make it a hard C or a soft C? (pronunciation)
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 3, 2019 17:35:03 GMT
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 3, 2019 17:42:30 GMT
perfect I'll stop referring to dark green as "green funk"... |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 5, 2019 2:13:21 GMT
OK, received a couple more Type I stamps today Thinking about Sower, the difference in the "greens" is rather subtle- could these be the same does one look green and one "dark" green? or just the same dang colors....   |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 5, 2019 2:33:40 GMT
I had hoped to post the first digital "scope" photos tonight detailing Type IIA and IIB.... but the replacement scope arrived and it does not work either.... i think it maybe a computer/recognition thing... anyway it goes back tomorrow
and Type IIBYvert/Maury 75
there are the following shades (Maury) this is from Google translate...
75 Emerald green 1878
75a Light green on pale green 1878
75b Bright green on pale green 1878
75c Bright dark green on yellowish 1878
75d Green-grey on light green 1879
75e Blue green on yellow green 1880
75f Bright green on azure 1882
75g Green black on green 1884
75h Dark green on green 1886
75i Light green on yellowish 1889
7hj Blue green on green azure 1892
75k Dark green on yellow green 1895
75l Pale green on yelloe green 1897
75m Pale blue green on green 1898
clear postmarks (year) will be helpful
and I must be nuts.....
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 5, 2019 14:07:51 GMT
Stan stainlessb.....where did you find all those shades for the Maury 75 5c green Type IIB - only 3 are listed in the 2017 cat ? René Y&T does not list as many, also |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 5, 2019 14:30:10 GMT
Maury Ceres & Dallay Catalogue de Timbres de France 2009 1 ere partie  it has (perhaps) the most detail I have not found many IIA  |
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 5, 2019 15:38:47 GMT
Maury Ceres & Dallay Catalogue de Timbres de France 2009 1 ere partie I have not found many IIA Thanks for your response - It is "funny" to see the 2017 Spink/Maury Catalogue de Timbres de France not showing all these 2009 details ? I looked at the ones "extra" found a few weeks ago of green 5c Type IIBs and 15c Type IICs but my eyes are taking a break for a few days..... René |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 5, 2019 16:10:15 GMT
The Maury Ceres Dallay is more detailed than Spinks|Maury
and the detail photos are larger/better
IMHO
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Post by feebletodix on Nov 5, 2019 16:26:01 GMT
in Spinks |Maury "... on utilisa un troiiseme poincon, il est pen different du Type I" my translation is a different "punch' which I take to mean a different 'plate' used in printing (?) Stan, poincon is a perforator.....now Maury and Yvert do not refer to the same difference and no Perf is given My M102 TIII..(I have 3 copies - this is the better one).......and I do not have a M64 to compare - but who can say that my M102 TIII is not a M64 TI !!!......but green and yellow green are different colors A quick look at the two 60c red/rose stamps from this series I was going to stash, one was 14x13½ and one was 14x13. I shall check my values later. |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 5, 2019 16:45:57 GMT
when you can, please post scans  |
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Post by feebletodix on Nov 5, 2019 20:52:54 GMT
Well, umm errr,, ahhhh well now you see, early onset senility an all that, dammit they are are 14x13¼, umm  50c  5c |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 5, 2019 21:04:44 GMT
yes, I went and looked at two sites that list perf and all stamps in the pre 1900 series are 14 x 13 1/2 (or imperf...but I think most of the imperf stamps i have seen are carefully cut out postal stationary (but I have them set aside, just in case)
Thanks for checking
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 5, 2019 21:57:35 GMT
Stan ( stainlessb), thanks for another interesting thread on classic stamps of France! I am enjoying the discussion. Question for you, Rene ( renden), or anyone else who can answer: I had not previously heard of Type III of this issue. You have shown some detail on Types I, II, IIA, IIB, but how about Type III? Can you explain or better, illustrate how this variety is identified? I am absolutely no specialist in this area, but I would like to learn about this nuance. Thanks, Chris |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 5, 2019 22:15:29 GMT
Beryllium Guy below are what "we" believe to be Type III N is under B just like the Type I, but the only "bright" green with the Type I identifier was the end of the series (1898-1900) (#102) and is much lighter/brighter than the early Type I
renden also posted a photo, but the cancellation obliterates the N under B from being clear.
There is a Type IIA (?) that is similar in color but N is under U (#106) I do not have my catalogue in front of me, but I believe there may be two (2) shades... but I may alos be confused  |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 5, 2019 22:53:13 GMT
for those who do have this- it may be useful link |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 6, 2019 1:42:57 GMT
Yvert/Maury #75 IIB here's the challenge..... what color is what? (and I have more...coming) The next task, now that they are in one place will be to pull all out that have postmarks- the earlier the postmark*, the more color shades that are eliminated. I am soaking a very obliterated stamp to make sure the ink is stable- and I think it is. then after pulling out dated stamps, everyone gets a bath! *but as you can see many are 1898.... so postdates may be of little help... but it may help with some  |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 6, 2019 3:58:19 GMT
75a or 75b? or maybe 75 Emerald Green? I'm thinking a or b as the paper seems "pale" green  |
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philatelia
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Post by philatelia on Nov 6, 2019 4:47:46 GMT
I don’t know much about this issue, but I do know that when I try to compare colors that using my full spectrum lamp is invaluable. The colors seem to pop.
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)
several of the stamps above did not get enough ink!
