neilmac
Member 
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
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Post by neilmac on Dec 10, 2023 2:42:23 GMT
"Here is a complete sheet of the 2d plate2 Hausberg reprint - produced for a book in 1906 that never eventuated. Unfortunately it does have a 25mm tear to the base of the sheet. Still, not so many of these around now. To be framed and hung in the office." Nice. Same, but different. circa 1855 (so I'm told - anyone any thoughts on that) complete sheet. Couldn't scan the whole sheet and photo looks pointless!   |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Dec 10, 2023 7:27:49 GMT
Very nice Neil! I am impressed  Where did you purchase this sheet? And how was it described? I ask as from memory the 'large star' wmk paper was used by many of the Crown Colonies of the time and just wonder if this was sold as being the New Zealand Chalon paper - or not. Really good either way, and undoubtedly not cheap to have purchased. Well done PS Perkins Bacon acquired this paper from 'Rush Mills' in England Dave |
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Post by daniel on Dec 10, 2023 16:05:51 GMT
neilmac , looks like the same as the part sheet shown by michael at this link and identified as used by Perkins Bacon. Daniel
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neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
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Post by neilmac on Dec 11, 2023 8:23:14 GMT
Very nice Neil! I am impressed Where did you purchase this sheet? And how was it described? I ask as from memory the 'large star' wmk paper was used by many of the Crown Colonies of the time and just wonder if this was sold as being the New Zealand Chalon paper - or not. Really good either way, and undoubtedly not cheap to have purchased. Well done PS Perkins Bacon acquired this paper from 'Rush Mills' in England Hi Dave, I have enquired from my supplier whether they can source more. The price was very reasonable - NZ$300 landed. The paper was listed within their NZ stock and was marketed as circa 1855. I'm not an expert on paper and so wondered about things like Bluing etc but in the end it was too nice not to buy. I'll let you know if he has more. Neilmac |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Dec 11, 2023 18:58:56 GMT
Thanks Neil Yes, the blueing in the paper is a little off-putting. Blueing in the 'London Prints' was supposedly caused by interaction with the inks used for printing. Is your scan of your sheet (above) true to life? I also see that REL1948 (Rob) wrote a piece on a similar subject here ==> Watermarking PaperI am not so sure that I would want a complete sheet of the paper, if available, but a piece from the edge showing the 'deckle edging' and maybe 12-20 star wmk positions would be great to place in my 'Chalon' books. Cheers Dave |
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neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
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Post by neilmac on Dec 11, 2023 19:11:29 GMT
Ok good news I think. He purchased the archive many years ago and has more. I am going to buy all of them if I can as I will use one or two more; probably cut a couple up to fit on exhibition pages (no one scream heresy! ). I'll keep you in the loop. Neilmac |
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skid
Member
Posts: 394
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Dec 12, 2023 5:56:29 GMT
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,844
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Dec 12, 2023 11:20:15 GMT
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Dec 12, 2023 18:39:36 GMT
And here is a screenshot of that listing Mark pointed out :  Seller is - Be happy...collect 99.9% positive feedback His feedback score is good. I see he sells all kinds of collectables (including dog supplements!) This sheet has been listed on ebay for many years now. It always has quite a few watchers - probably just to see if he sells it at that price. His description states "NEW ZEALAND, Perkins & Bacon (Full Sheet) FOR FIRST ISSUE 1855, NO GUM, RARE" I wonder how he knows it is NZ Chalon paper, as mentioned previously, this paper was used for the printing of many Crown Colonies stamps! Currently US$12,500 = NZ$20,500 !!! Dave |
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Dec 13, 2023 5:23:12 GMT
Hi all
It may pay to check the size of the star on that full sheet. That may be a clue as to what issue it was used for.
Cheers Grant
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neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
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Post by neilmac on Dec 14, 2023 2:40:00 GMT
Yes saw that, These are the same but are immaculate - no aging at all. Rush Mills I believe. If you were a forger of some repute you could have some fun with these |
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neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
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Post by neilmac on Dec 14, 2023 2:49:29 GMT
Hi all It may pay to check the size of the star on that full sheet. That may be a clue as to what issue it was used for. Cheers Grant Here is an image of a block currently for sale at Status International. The paper looks identical. If you help me buy the block I'll be able to overlay it!  The sheet dimension of the one I have is identical to the FFQ sheets so I'm picking it's legit and my source is primo. Maybe I should put one up for US$1,000 on eBay and see what happens!  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Dec 15, 2023 21:03:06 GMT
If you help me buy the block I'll be able to overlay it! Nice block there Neil. How much are they asking for it, BTW? And while I am at it : I bought a few oldie Chalons a month or so back from eBay. Here is the blurry phone camera shot they posted for us to view this lot with and make informed decisions about!!  No pictures of the backs, of course! There appeared to be an ok 4d Rose in the lot so put my bid in ... won it, and was pleasantly surprised to find this one in there. SG94 1/- Pelure paper p13 cat £2500!  A tiny thin to the bottom edge but pretty nice overall and a very pleasant surprise for me. Dave |
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neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
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Post by neilmac on Dec 15, 2023 22:07:04 GMT
If you help me buy the block I'll be able to overlay it! Nice block there Neil. How much are they asking for it, BTW? And while I am at it : I bought a few oldie Chalons a month or so back from eBay. Here is the blurry phone camera shot they posted for us to view this lot with and make informed decisions about!! No pictures of the backs, of course! There appeared to be an ok 4d Rose in the lot so put my bid in ... won it, and was pleasantly surprised to find this one in there. SG94 1/- Pelure paper p13 cat £2500! A tiny thin to the bottom edge but pretty nice overall and a very pleasant surprise for me. Dave Nice find - eBay can be fun, and it can be furious. I bought a similar looking batch a few years back with a nice ultramarine in the mix and when it turned up it wasn't included. Seller said they had no idea what happened - whatever! That block of SG136 is actually bigger than the original photo as I was highlighting the paper. Below the actual block which would be about $6300. Interesting too because it's reversed (printed on back). And if you like you can buy the even bigger SG 138 + 138a block for about $10,000. Both really impressive - wish I had the readies. Anyone feeling generous?   Neilmac |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Dec 17, 2023 19:43:09 GMT
I was just looking thru' the items for sale on the 'Complete Stamp Company' website and saw this pair. I thought that it was too nice not to share with you: SG125 pair with a beautiful CDS of New Plymouth  He is asking NZ$450 for it! (US$275 approx.) Dave |
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Post by nzgrant on Jan 4, 2024 7:39:52 GMT
I got this 6d Brown A5h(5) recently and was interested in the writing on the back. Aside from the rather nice calligraphy, it seems an unusual thing to write on a stamp. There isn't anything noteworthy on the rear to display. It is not perfect, so I assume it is hand-written and not printed. Has anyone come across one like this before?   |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 5, 2024 3:47:19 GMT
Probably put there by the owner of the stamp for some reason.
Agree that the writing is very neatly done tho'.
Later, I will see if I have anything in my stockbooks like that. It rings a bell that I may have 1 or 2 that have something similar written on their backs.
I will post here if I find something similar.
Dave
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 6, 2024 0:49:35 GMT
Ok good news I think. He purchased the archive many years ago and has more. I am going to buy all of them if I can as I will use one or two more; probably cut a couple up to fit on exhibition pages (no one scream heresy! ). I'll keep you in the loop. Neilmac |
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 6, 2024 0:52:18 GMT
Hi Neil What size is the star watermark ?. I have two samples, one a large star measuring between 15-16mm and a smaller star measuring close to 11.5mm The top sheet ( four stars ) each measure 11.5mm across The bottom is the large star with 5 lines and POSATGE in the selvedge   Cheers Grant |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 6, 2024 21:23:54 GMT
Probably put there by the owner of the stamp for some reason. Agree that the writing is very neatly done tho'. Later, I will see if I have anything in my stockbooks like that. It rings a bell that I may have 1 or 2 that have something similar written on their backs. I will post here if I find something similar. Dave I checked thru a few hundred Chalons before deciding it took too much time to go thru' thousands of them, but I did find this one before giving up. It was in my '2nds' album of Chalons (those with faults) :   Challenge:Can anyone reading this decipher what it says? Dave |
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rod222
Member
Posts: 11,051 
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jan 7, 2024 3:02:19 GMT
Can anyone reading this decipher what it says? Dave A toughie, one would expect, scribblings on the back of postage stamp, would be colour, state of stamp, variety, catalogue reference. postmark ID. This is all cancelled out, by the fact the scribble is in ink. No stamp collector, of any merit would do that. Ergo, some neophyte ,making a doodle ? etc I can follow the first 2 letters, probably "da" then the downstroke goes into a posssible open letter, a "u" or similar. ("damaged"?) I doubt it can be cracked. I have an Aussie stamp, with scribble on back, something like "Love/Barbara/ XXX" |
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Post by nzgrant on Jan 7, 2024 7:44:31 GMT
As I'm new to the Forum, I decided to read right through the 34 pages of this thread. I'm very impressed with the knowledge shown and degree of sharing of information. I've got a few queries that I'll post in the next week or so. One is in relation to manuscripts - is there a reference on the known ones? I have a couple of Chalons with writing on them as shown. The first is probably just a signature but the second could be a MS candidate.   |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 7, 2024 7:53:24 GMT
The first one (the 1d) has 'Paid' in m/s underneath the initials so will have been used for revenue/stamp duty purposes.
The 1866 Stamp Duty act brought the Chalons into use for a time after 1 January 1867.
The 2nd one (the 2d) has an m/s 'K' which I believe from memory was for 'Kingston' near Queenstown.
The main books for manuscripts is either the book by A.R Marshall entitled 'New Zealand Postal Manuscripts' or vol.3 of the RPSNZ handbooks.
Dave
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neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
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Post by neilmac on Jan 7, 2024 22:51:32 GMT
Hi Neil What size is the star watermark ?. I have two samples, one a large star measuring between 15-16mm and a smaller star measuring close to 11.5mm The top sheet ( four stars ) each measure 11.5mm across The bottom is the large star with 5 lines and POSATGE in the selvedge Cheers Grant Hi Grant, These are definitely W1a. the smaller star as used on Newspaper stamps. Not the large star. Great question - thanks for asking. Neil |
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Post by nzgrant on Jan 8, 2024 4:25:45 GMT
I've accumulated a few 3d Chalons to start to make sense of the different shades as shown in the image below. The photo of the different shades that Grant Clifford put up earlier in this thread is very helpful. I've had a first cut at identifying SG116/7/8s and will improve on them as more accumulate. One that I'm not sure about is the imperf bottom left. I'm assuming that it is a SG117a but could it be a SG40? It would seem a bit odd to end up with 3 SG117a/118a and no SG40s, given the difference in catalogue value.  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 8, 2024 20:50:21 GMT
Nice lot of 3d's Grant.
The one you question, whether it is an SG40 or an SG117a, it is a little hard to say with certainty from the picture (as you can imagine!).
Part of me thinks it could be SG40 but it is not a strong brown lilac shade is it?
Do you have any SG40's at all to compare it with?
BTW the 2nd stamp on the 2nd row has an NZ Wars period '4 ONEHUNGA A' postmark. Nice
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,543
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jan 8, 2024 21:10:16 GMT
I dug out some of my SG40's & SG117a & SG118a and scanned them for a comparison. From looking at my ones I am a little more comfortable suggesting SG40 for your one in question. I hope this helps you ....  Dave |
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Post by nzgrant on Jan 9, 2024 2:33:15 GMT
The first one (the 1d) has 'Paid' in m/s underneath the initials so will have been used for revenue/stamp duty purposes. The 1866 Stamp Duty act brought the Chalons into use for a time after 1 January 1867. The 2nd one (the 2d) has an m/s 'K' which I believe from memory was for 'Kingston' near Queenstown. The main books for manuscripts is either the book by A.R Marshall entitled 'New Zealand Postal Manuscripts' or vol.3 of the RPSNZ handbooks. Dave Kingston is right. I looked up Marshall in the library. Thanks, Grant  |
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Post by nzgrant on Jan 9, 2024 3:03:18 GMT
Nice lot of 3d's Grant. The one you question, whether it is an SG40 or an SG117a, it is a little hard to say with certainty from the picture (as you can imagine!). Part of me thinks it could be SG40 but it is not a strong brown lilac shade is it? Do you have any SG40's at all to compare it with? BTW the 2nd stamp on the 2nd row has an NZ Wars period '4 ONEHUNGA A' postmark. Nice Dave No, that is my first SG40. I hadn't noticed the Onehunga postmark. Pretty faint but I'll take it. The early postmarks like this are well sought after with strong bidding on auction sites. I had to push well up on pricing to get the two below. The Province of Auckland postmarks don't come up often. The last one I saw on TradeMe went for about $100. I got this one on EBay in amongst a page of early NZ stamps. It cost a fair bit but is in fine condition. There was also a grade 10 postmark "Kokako" hiding in plain sight in the lot! So, I was pleased about that.  |
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gc
Member
Posts: 289
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Post by gc on Jan 9, 2024 7:32:06 GMT
As I'm new to the Forum, I decided to read right through the 34 pages of this thread. I'm very impressed with the knowledge shown and degree of sharing of information. I've got a few queries that I'll post in the next week or so. One is in relation to manuscripts - is there a reference on the known ones? I have a couple of Chalons with writing on them as shown. The first is probably just a signature but the second could be a MS candidate. Hi all There is a similar stamp shown by Dave on page 7 of this thread. Cheers Grant |
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