Hugh
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Posts: 441
What I collect: Occupation Stamps and Postal History, Worldwide; Canada, the UK, France and Germany.
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Post by Hugh on Jun 15, 2024 22:56:11 GMT
Jones and Causton's paper, won a medal for their "Account Books" in the 1862 World exhibition, from Worldwide judges. The Examiner October 4th 1862 Page 633 Class XXVlll Paper, Stationery, Printing and bookbinding Jones and Causton's mentioned here
Mr Owen Jones, designed the Playing Cards for De la Rue !
That's a really cool example of fun research. Wonderful dive, great job. Brings back memories, too. In another lifetime, I spent hours at hotel ballroom dinners around the world for the yearly awards for various activiites I was involved in at the time, packaging, advertsing, design, printing, project management, consulting ... among others. That 1862 report in the Examiner could have been given just as earnestly in 1970, 1995 or 2024. It's both a window into the past and a reminder that, technology notwithstanding, people are people. I think I'll go read some Victorian literature tonight. Hard Times or The Diary of a Nobody?
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Hugh
Member
Posts: 441
What I collect: Occupation Stamps and Postal History, Worldwide; Canada, the UK, France and Germany.
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Post by Hugh on Jun 15, 2024 23:24:49 GMT
Sorry, no information on "instruction indicia" "4R" (4 Reales Postage Due?) and "MP" as yet. the 4 R is Spanish and probably 4 reales. the rate to France was 4d which was usually paid with a 4d vermillion, most likely part of what a previous collector has removed I just came across an1830 UK cover to Spain offered for sale online with an 11R mark ... the dealer reasons that it is postage due of 11 reales (and notes that the postage for incoming mail from the UK to Spain in 1830) was 11R. So that would seem to confirm that both of you are correct, the 4R would be the postage due.
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 4,950
What I collect: Cinderellas and some Ephemera from Great Britain, France and Israel plus a few beautiful bits from elsewhere !! Topical interests include Flags & Judaica, the latter with an emphasis on the Jewish National Fund.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Jun 16, 2024 8:30:35 GMT
A lack of ignorance but no lack of research or care. Yet still a part-time member of the 'throw away posse'.
I am not alone.
Londonbus1 (and others)
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gbcc
Member
Posts: 981
What I collect: GB First day covers, event covers and postmarks, GB Slogans
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Post by gbcc on Jun 20, 2024 15:13:48 GMT
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Hugh
Member
Posts: 441
What I collect: Occupation Stamps and Postal History, Worldwide; Canada, the UK, France and Germany.
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Post by Hugh on Jun 24, 2024 4:16:15 GMT
A nice little George V bisect from the UK. At the time, the inland postal rate for a letter was one penny. 1/2 p was acceptable only for inland postcards. Here we have someone using a bisect of a one penny stamp (SG 357) to send a letter from Morpeth to Newcastle-on-Tyne, February 18, 1904. It didn’t completely work. As you can see, a postal worker added a 1d postage due handstamp. Since the postage due is double the missing postage, this means that they accepted the bisect as good for 1/2p but wanted double the missing postage. In the end, the total postage cost was 1.5p instead of 1p. Of course, the extra 1p was not paid by the sender … so, I guess someone saved some money (smile). That's assuming of course that the cancels are real?
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rod222
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Posts: 10,681
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jun 24, 2024 5:04:50 GMT
That's assuming of course that the cancels are real? Hugh Tough question, on the cusp of my knowledge. Uniform Penny Post 1840> Handstruck 1d (From 1870) (Unframed) (Charge and Instructional) Type 410 (Whitney) Has that look of genuine, to me, but really only a guess. -------------- We have a big curiosity here with MORPETH We have A MORPETH (Northumberland) Duplex 3-2-2-3 18th February 1904 Barred 537 (with a curious bold "1" ) In 1861 we have a MORPETH duplex 3-2-2-3 Barred 531Your backstamp has ASHINGTON MORPETH (5 miles away to the EAST ?)
I am wondering if it was mis sent to Ashington Morpeth, before going on to Newcastle upon Tyne (16 miles away) same day delivery. An interesting cover
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,472
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jun 24, 2024 21:09:29 GMT
I get the impression the envelope is sealed and probably never opened . So a philatelic concoction I would suggest, possibly even sent by I. P Southern to himself. Rather than "Missent" to Ashington which would probably add a day, possibly handed in at a small sub office Ashington ( cancel by favour ?) to be sent up to main office in Morpeth, for Newcastle delivery ,all of which could easily be done within a day on the 18th The 1d handstamp is unusual, postage due markings often included the words "TO/PAY" PS Hugh it is an Edward VII penny bisected not George V
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Hugh
Member
Posts: 441
What I collect: Occupation Stamps and Postal History, Worldwide; Canada, the UK, France and Germany.
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Post by Hugh on Jun 24, 2024 21:55:26 GMT
I get the impression the envelope is sealed and probably never opened . So a philatelic concoction I would suggest, possibly even sent by I. P Southern to himself. Rather than "Missent" to Ashington which would probably add a day, possibly handed in at a small sub office Ashington ( cancel by favour ?) to be sent up to main office in Morpeth, for Newcastle delivery ,all of which could easily be done within a day on the 18th The 1d handstamp is unusual, postage due markings often included the words "TO/PAY" PS Hugh it is an Edward VII penny bisected not George V First ... "Opps" sorry about that. Yes, it's definitely Edward VII (SG 219). I was working on this post at midnight and had just looked up information on another stamp (the George V). At a glance, I thought it was the same stamp. I should have realized that that wasn't the case based on the date alone (1904). Clearly, I should have gone to bed. Second ... your theory is interesting. I can confirm that the envelope is open, sliced along the top - no contents. I like the cover, but it always seemed a bit too perfect. I can't prove anything is wrong but ... it just never felt quite right. I like bisects a lot ... but they make me nervous. I do have another Edward VII bisect, this one from Canada - a postcard. It's a two-cent bisect (Unitrade 90) posted in Montreal in 1908. It feels less perfect.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 10,681
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jun 24, 2024 22:16:01 GMT
Hugh Hi Hugh FYI Whitney's Postage Due Instructionals (Page 213) The One Penny is similar, but yours has a flourish / serif on the denari. Whitney's may be just a generic form, and the hammer from Morpeth may have differed ? We may never know. I like the suggestion Ashington to Morpeth, then on to "N upon T"
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Post by daniel on Jun 24, 2024 22:49:46 GMT
At the time, the inland postal rate for a letter was one penny. 1/2 p was acceptable only for inland postcards. Here we have someone using a bisect of a one penny stamp (SG 357) to send a letter from Morpeth to Newcastle-on-Tyne, February 18, 1904. It didn’t completely work. As you can see, a postal worker added a 1d postage due handstamp. Since the postage due is double the missing postage, this means that they accepted the bisect as good for 1/2p but wanted double the missing postage. In the end, the total postage cost was 1.5p instead of 1p. Of course, the extra 1p was not paid by the sender … so, I guess someone saved some money (smile). That's assuming of course that the cancels are real? Hugh, it's a nice cover but I feel that it is more straightforward than you imagine, The 1d is a known Charge Mark type and so, must be correct. The route from Morpeth to Newcastle must have been via Ashington. I don't see any evidence that the letter was refused and returned to sender. If it had been returned, there would be Instructional or Explanatory Marks on it. Moreover, if the sender in Morpeth wanted the letter returned they would have put their address on the back. There is an error in the address, it should read Granville Road, Jesmond and not Jesmond Road. Daniel
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anilkhemlani
Member
collect worldwide stamps
Posts: 589
What I collect: Stamps from all over the world + FDC
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Post by anilkhemlani on Jul 3, 2024 16:58:29 GMT
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paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
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Post by paul1 on Jul 3, 2024 17:05:25 GMT
re the cover to Norman Eyre - by 30th November '53, Q.E. II had been Queen for nearly 6 months after her father G. VI had died in February of the previous year. I guess using up old stamps has been de rigueur since Victoria died. Some nice covers Anil - well done.
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anilkhemlani
Member
collect worldwide stamps
Posts: 589
What I collect: Stamps from all over the world + FDC
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Post by anilkhemlani on Jul 4, 2024 8:08:58 GMT
thank you paul1 , I found the covers interesting so picked them up. before I joined TSF I never paid attention to all these details, but last year I have been intrigued with the postal covers. there are so many stories with each cover.
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gbcc
Member
Posts: 981
What I collect: GB First day covers, event covers and postmarks, GB Slogans
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Post by gbcc on Jul 5, 2024 19:21:18 GMT
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anilkhemlani
Member
collect worldwide stamps
Posts: 589
What I collect: Stamps from all over the world + FDC
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Post by anilkhemlani on Jul 6, 2024 4:07:51 GMT
nice covers gbcc , thank you for sharing.
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gbcc
Member
Posts: 981
What I collect: GB First day covers, event covers and postmarks, GB Slogans
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Post by gbcc on Jul 19, 2024 8:25:33 GMT
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Post by daniel on Jul 20, 2024 12:47:56 GMT
Posted at S.E.6 Under Cover to the Head Postmaster of Edinburgh 3rd July 1961 Here is the back of a most curious cover: Under what circumstances would such a letter be so marked? Then, I found this reference in 'The History of the Postmarks of the British Isles From 1840 to 1876' by John G Hendy ( a highly recommended book published by Stanley Gibbons in 1909): So, 110 plus years later, this bizarre system was still in place but probably not railway related. Now look at the front of the cover and it just gets curiouser and curiouser, as Lewis Carroll would have it. Somehow the slogan machine cancel has gotten partially reversed. In addition, what appears to be a triangular Inspector's Mark, S33 has been added. Daniel
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rod222
Member
Posts: 10,681
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jul 20, 2024 20:15:50 GMT
daniel Fascinating Cover ! Quote In addition, what appears to be a triangular Inspector's Mark, S33 has been added.
TRIANGULAR POSTMARKS These triangles were adopted in 1893 to cancel stamps on circulars "in imitation typewriting" (that is, duplicated rather than printed) but they were later extended to printed matter of all kinds. They became obsolete in 1968 when the two tier system was adopted, and only used occasionally to obliterate adhesives that missed machine cancellation To distinguish between offices in Scotland , Northern Ireland, and the rest of the UK the prefix S or l was used. (S33) Offices in England or Wales had no prefix. London offices had identifying initials MTP Mount Pleasant, CH Charing Cross etc Suggestion: Your cover went through the machine canceller incorrectly (on back) the S33 was then struck on front as cancelling a missed stamp, then fed through the machine a second time, faced correctly.
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Post by daniel on Jul 24, 2024 2:38:59 GMT
Posted at S.E.6 Under Cover to the Head Postmaster of Edinburgh 3rd July 1961
Having found a few other similar covers being sold by Bill Barrell Ltd, it would appear that the later use of this system was for obtaining slogan cancellations or for special flight covers.
Daniel
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gbcc
Member
Posts: 981
What I collect: GB First day covers, event covers and postmarks, GB Slogans
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Post by gbcc on Jul 25, 2024 14:06:32 GMT
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gbcc
Member
Posts: 981
What I collect: GB First day covers, event covers and postmarks, GB Slogans
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Post by gbcc on Aug 1, 2024 19:01:45 GMT
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,472
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 1, 2024 20:31:09 GMT
1855 roughly opened flimsy envelope from the Crimean war. An officer ‘s letter charged at 3d with a pair and a detached third , penny red stars. SA SB SC. The manuscript notations from the sender are “via marseilles” and in the lower left corner “Crimea 4th Division, 17th Regt D.G”. The recipient has added “D. Grieg” and what I take to be “31 August 1855” (There is a smudged black “POST OFFICE. BRITISH ARMY JU 7 “ and part of a red London arrival on the reverse by the torn flap.) the philatelic interest is in the postmark . The stamps are cancelled on arrival in London . What looks like 3 strikes of the inner London counter numeral “49” in fact is much better! It is a single strike of a triple numeral cancel designed specifically for such 3d frankings. The bars all line up showing it is a single action canceller , not 3 handstamps, saving the clerk 2 strikes on every cover in the bag! Second point of stamp interest is the appalling centring of the perforations. A new invention in 1854 , the registration is very poor and , from what I have seen , it looks like the worst centred sheets have been either sent to Crimea or held by the Post Office for such mail and perhaps not good enough to be sold to the general public who might complain. Then we come to the social / biography details , which can be gleaned from the internet if anyone is interested.But in summary the recipient , John Struthers Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons, was a distinguished surgeon lecturer in Anatomy, who’s studies in the homologous bone structure of mammal forelimbs supported Darwin’s evolution theory, Later knighted , he was the first Regius professor of Anatomy at my old University of Aberdeen. his annotation “D.Greig “ and the matching Officer initials D.G , point us to a young Dr Davig Greig of Edinburgh who was an Assistant Surgeon at Scutari Hospital , working in the hospital at the same time as Florence Nightingale. His 175page journal exists and mentions the work of the nurses and his colleagues. He had 23 days of Cholera and recovered , while his contemporary and colleague Dr Alexander Struthers, younger brother of John , died of the disease in Scutari.
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Hugh
Member
Posts: 441
What I collect: Occupation Stamps and Postal History, Worldwide; Canada, the UK, France and Germany.
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Post by Hugh on Aug 1, 2024 21:37:08 GMT
the philatelic interest is in the postmark . The stamps are cancelled on arrival in London . What looks like 3 strikes of the inner London counter numeral “49” in fact is much better! It is a single strike of a triple numeral cancel designed specifically for such 3d frankings. The bars all line up showing it is a single action canceller , not 3 handstamps, saving the clerk 2 strikes on every cover in the bag! Wonderful cover, marvellous. In Hendy, p. 11, he writes about the posts of the Crimean War. He indicated that an inland office '49' obliterator was also being used locally by the BPO in Constantinople (fig. 56). You suggested that the ones on your cover were applied in London. Is it possible they were applied in theatre? Or are you basing your conclusion on the observation that three of them were joined together? In any event, love the idea that someone assembled three of them together. Cool.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,472
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 1, 2024 22:07:52 GMT
Thanks Hugh. The star crown star. And the OXO are well known cancels from Constantinople. I confess having come lately to Crimean mail I was not aware of the 48 & 49:being applied in Constantinople. I had assumed that they were applied in London . This assumption I had gathered from dealers when purchasing some covers. It may well be a misconception on my part. I have covers with no stamp and a manuscript “3” in black. ( to pay) , in red ( paid) and manuscript + stamps . I must check all my stamped covers to see what cancels they carry.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,472
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 2, 2024 12:15:19 GMT
I am not at all certain where the stamps are added or cancelled , I assumed London on arrival, but wait to be corrected. This similar cover came from UK dealer Bill Barrell with the triple "49" cancel on a strip of 3 stars Plate 177 ( SG 17 blued paper) It has the "3" manuscript in black which indicates "Post paid" but no stamps as yet. Stamps are added and cancelled . Dealers says with " cancellation of London Inland Office " It is possible that the canceller issued by London had been taken to Constantinople , but i don't know if that is the case. Dauwalders has an other cover from Surgeon Miller to his wife in Dublin this one has 3 separate stamps and 3 strikes of London office "36" almost certainly applied in London on arrival www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402975214246Likewise dealer Samwells has a splendid cover with 1d star in combination with an imperf 2d Blue ( Not mine , not one I could afford ) www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143845600421He describes it as This example is in COMBINATION with a LC14 perforated 1d Red Stars SG.29 (SG.Spec C6) with both being cancelled on arrival in London. Both postage stamps well tied by single strike of the London "Triple" *48* numeral often seen on Crimea Campaign mail.
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Post by daniel on Aug 3, 2024 1:34:06 GMT
George Brumell's book 'British Post Office Numbers 1844-1906' published in 1946 has a chapter under Obliterators, London Inland Office. He states that 'All the (hand) stamps in this group were used in this office', he goes on to show 48 triple example and he further states that '48 and 49 triples, for use on packets bearing more than one postage stamp' :
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rod222
Member
Posts: 10,681
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Aug 3, 2024 3:05:45 GMT
George Brumell's book 'British Post Office Numbers 1844-1906' published in 1946 has a chapter under Obliterators, London Inland Office. He states that 'All the (hand) stamps in this group were used in this office', he goes on to show 48 triple example and he further states that '48 and 49 triples, for use on packets bearing more than one postage stamp' : danielSuper, have not come across George Brumell prior, I have to go looking for it ! Thank you. Does he mention the attempt to distinguish between the 6 and 9 stamps (hammers) ? and the double line 6 with a dot above it.
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Post by daniel on Aug 3, 2024 3:37:23 GMT
rod222, yes, unfortunately. I had truncated the pages to highlight the 48/49 triple cancel. I have now replaced the image above with the complete pages. Mention of the 6 and 9 is made at the bottom of the first page. Daniel
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rod222
Member
Posts: 10,681
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Aug 3, 2024 3:59:48 GMT
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Hugh
Member
Posts: 441
What I collect: Occupation Stamps and Postal History, Worldwide; Canada, the UK, France and Germany.
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Post by Hugh on Aug 4, 2024 18:43:53 GMT
Hi kasvik (or anyone else) ... can I pick your brain on the Swedish postmarks on the back of this cover? I've been playing with them this rainy afternoon but it's totally out of my area. It's a British cover from (yes, once again) Frederick Huth & Company to Stockholm. On the front, using some filters, I have the receiving cancelation reading __NDON ... which means it was applied in London. It's a fun design, to me it looks like an old-timey pocket watch with the city name on the crown. If you're from the US, you might say it has Mickey Mouse ears. In any event, the date seems to be OCT 5 95 or OC 15 95 ... I'm going with October 15, 1895. There is a Z5 (?) on the bottom of the outer circle. I'm still researching that. The handwriting is pretty messy. Not the usual precise writing one expects from a commercial cover - especially from a merchant bank. The stamp has a HUTH perfin, which is nice. They were one of the first companies to use them ... and obviously kept it up. The stamp is an SG 201, a blue / purple 2 1/2d from the Queen Victoria Jubilee series, issued on January 1, 1887. My question is about the two cancels on the back. As I said, I currently know nothing about Swedish postmarks but the arrival cancel, from Stockholm, seems clear enough ... STOCKHOLM. The day and month, I assume, are the 18 above the 10 for October 18. The year is split on either side ... 1895. I don't know what the K.E. means ... a postal station? The other postmark, I assume is the stamp that was applied when the British cover entered the country. It's dated 17/10/1895 -- October 17, 1895. The lower part of the outer ring has the letters PKXP but I can't quite make out the rest. Any suggestions? Thanks. PS - For HUTH fans, there is a nice stylized FH&Co embossed logo on the flap of the envelope. It's inside a heraldic belt.
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